Description of new SSAA option?

[Hiromachi]

So I've tried the following: SMAA x 1.5, MSAA x2, MSAA x 4, SMAA x 1.5 + MSAA x 2, SMAA x 2. Each of this on the same graphic settings, same resolution and stuff. I'm normally playing with MSAA x 2, which at 3440 x 1440p gives me 80-90 FPS in my rig.

 

So any combination of MSAA and SMAA, even only MSAA x 2 + SMAA x 1.5 caused 30-40 % FPS drop. I was running at 50 FPS and that is on the lower end of my g-sync. Same with SMAA x 2.

However it seems to me that alone SMAA x 1.5 gives better results and more detailed picture than MSAA x 2, while providing similar FPS so for the time being I will try the first one and see how I feel about it online.

[YoYo]

Yes, impact for fps of SSAA=on is big. I noticed that campared to MSAA=2 is near 10-20 fps less (1.5) and more stutters with Track IR. I stay with MSAA=2.

[FragBum]

Should it work in or is it ment for VR?

 

Ive tried it and it flattens the screen like the VR zoom button is held in other than that it really makes things super clear all be it a bit fishbowled.

 

Could this just be a bug? i would be interested in trying it out in VR.

 

No not at this time for VR. :thumbup:

[lennycutler]

For me running with Nvidia 1070, I got best results with SSAA=1.5 and MSAA=OFF. Crisper image and no loss in FPS.

[Shepherd]

If I turn on SSAA on, I crash. The error Shader "bazar/shaders/deferred/blurcompute.fx" failed to compile. Running 1080ti with 3xmonitors...

[Headwarp]

What matters here is the resolution you play at to begin with and the GPU powering that resolution. And then recognizing that SSAA 2x is basically doubling the amount of pixels and then fitting that image into the original resolution, creating a sharper image. So for Lenny I'm assuming is on a 1080p monitor, 1920x1080 with SSAA 1.5 is like 2880x1620 - a 1070 is capable of running it without much struggle I'd imagine.

 

So if you're running three 1080p monitors, that's 5760x1080, SSAA 1.5 is basically like trying to run 8640x1620, and 2x = 11520x2160. The GPU doesn't exist for that kind of resolution yet, and likely not for some time to come. Hence your system came to a screeching halt when you attempted it.

 

It's like I said earlier in this thread - if you're running 1080p and using a 980Ti or something more powerful - this is probably a decent anti-aliasing option for you, and the reports of people using more GPU power than their monitor requires seems to show they are seeing a benefit from using it.

 

Personally - I'm taking this as a sign that ED is taking steps to give people alternatives for anti-aliasing, and that as a high resolution user eventually I'll be able to get rid of some shimmering/jaggies myself if the next generation of GPU's doesn't solve all my jaggy woes. Patience is a virtue.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Headwarp

[BitMaster]

The reason might also be that MSAA and DS do not like to work together as many AA covering articles claim. The performance hit with DS+MSAA is very high. MSAA will eventually be tossed imho.

 

There are some good articles describing different AA methods. Worth reading.

[Kazius]

Headwarp, running SSAA has nothing to do with resolution increases. Anti-aliasing has nothing to do with DSR. Anti-aliasing blends graphic object edges to reduce jagged lines being seen. It does this through color blending and transparency.

 

Dynamic Super Resolution or DSR renders images at higher resolutions. The images are then adjusted back to your monitors resolution. This can reduce jagged lines, but not in the same way anti-aliasing works. This is what Headwarp is describing and it is not a setting in DCS but a setting in your nvidia control panels 3D settings.

 

There are better options than SSAA, however many of these options are not always compatible for all graphics cards. For example, Temporal anti-aliasing or TXAA is very efficient. It is slightly less quality than SSAA, but it still does a great job. Problem is this is proprietary to nvidia graphics cards.

[majapahit]

I did quite some testing on my rift last couple of days (8600K @ 4.8 Ghz, GTX 1080),

 

ended up with

 

MSAA 2x -a must for the jaggies

SSAA 1.5 - this still works for some reason for clarity of the cockpit

Anisotropic OFF - MSAA works better

DCS VR PD 1.5 - median for fps

Oculus Tray PD 1.1 - why lower than DCS VR DP don't know but it works to keep fps up

NVidia panel FXAA ON - because its cheap

 

both Textures HIGH

Traffic LOW

Water MEDIUM

Viz range MEDIUM

Heat blur OFF

Shadows MEDIUM

Cockpit resolution 1024

Terrain shadows FLAT

 

all this haphazard and rather illogically to keep the 45 fps of the sync of the VR Rift Oculus Tray Tool (Instant "Carrier takeoff")

 

(I noticed lately DCS VR is OK'ish @ 22-25 fps BTW, but still, I play in between, with dozens of Firefox windows open, with Firefox on 'below normal priority', GPU 100%, CPU 37%)

Edited January 11, 2019 by majapahit

[Headwarp]

Headwarp, running SSAA has nothing to do with resolution increases. Anti-aliasing has nothing to do with DSR. Anti-aliasing blends graphic object edges to reduce jagged lines being seen. It does this through color blending and transparency.

 

Dynamic Super Resolution or DSR renders images at higher resolutions. The images are then adjusted back to your monitors resolution. This can reduce jagged lines, but not in the same way anti-aliasing works. This is what Headwarp is describing and it is not a setting in DCS but a setting in your nvidia control panels 3D settings.

 

There are better options than SSAA, however many of these options are not always compatible for all graphics cards. For example, Temporal anti-aliasing or TXAA is very efficient. It is slightly less quality than SSAA, but it still does a great job. Problem is this is proprietary to nvidia graphics cards.

 

"Supersampling is a spatial anti-aliasing method, i.e. a method used to remove aliasing (jagged and pixelated edges, colloquially known as "jaggies") from images rendered in computer games or other computer programs that generate imagery. Aliasing occurs because unlike real-world objects, which have continuous smooth curves and lines, a computer screen shows the viewer a large number of small squares. These pixels all have the same size, and each one has a single color. A line can only be shown as a collection of pixels, and therefore appears jagged unless it is perfectly horizontal or vertical. The aim of supersampling is to reduce this effect. Color samples are taken at several instances inside the pixel (not just at the center as normal), and an average color value is calculated. This is achieved by rendering the image at a much higher resolution than the one being displayed, then shrinking it to the desired size, using the extra pixels for calculation. The result is a downsampled image with smoother transitions from one line of pixels to another along the edges of objects."

 

You can very well think of SSAA's effect on performance in a similar regard to increasing rendered resolution. There's a reason why people using 1080P and 1440p monitors paired with a 1080Ti are having good results with it, where people running higher resolutions don't really need it to begin with, but take a much bigger performance hit than the former. Whether it's rendering more samples from pixels, or rendeirng more pixels.. it's still rendering more than just playing at your native resolution. By the way I don't use DSR or SSAA, running @ 3440x1440 which at the time pinned my 980Ti, and still puts my 2080Ti at 99% gpu usage in most cases using only msaa 2x along with my native resolution. Since then I've moved on to VR, but I'm still going to say SSAA's effect on performance mostly depends on your CPU/GPU/monitor combination. IF your gpu is more powerful than your monitor demands, ssaa will probaly be good to you, and imo is far more convenient than DSR. which I was not talking about DSR.

 

So, with SSAA 1.5, if it's not the pixel count, what is the 150% representitive of? A pixel and a half per pixel blended together? The samples have to be rendered as something.

These articles define SSAA much better than I can.

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2244562/anti-aliasing-fxaa-ssaa-msaa-txaa-ambient-occlusion.html

 

This wikipedia article explains SSAA more in depth, including the quote at the top of the post.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersampling

 

This article seems like a good read as well

https://techreport.com/review/27102/maxwell-dynamic-super-resolution-explored and even points out that my description of increased pixel count isn't "Entirely accurate" but also states "In a very nerdy way" which to me says , this explanation works in laymen's terms for those that often find themselves in the DCS World forums speaking in terms of framerate. This article states the effect on performance is the same between DSR and SSAA. So It doesn't hurt to think of supersampling, as an increase resolution when talking about its effects on performance. I don't claim to know all the science behind it. But it makes sense to me, and my reading of these forums from people who utilize SSAA with various displays and GPU's says to me - treat it like increasing your resolution. If CPU limited - try ssaa, if gpu limited - expect a significant hit to framerate.

 

snip

 

SSAA has no effect in VR. just leave it off. And you should use either the in game pixel density setting, OR the occulus tray pixel density setting, (PD), not both. I.E. I use steamVR, in the steamVR settings for DCS I leave the application resolution or supersampling AKA Pixel Density or PD slider at 100% or 1.0 and set my in game pixel density setting anywhere between 1.5 to 2.0 depending on performance.

 

Using both your Occulus Tray PD above 1.0 and the in-game pixel density setting above 1.0 is applying supersampling to your already supersampled image. You only need one or the other. Adjust your pixel density with one of the two options for it, leave the other 1.0

 

I presonally use msaa (multi-sampled anti-aliasing) 2x in VR combined with a pixel density setting that allows for no less than 45 fps when flying low or otherwise happy with the image quality.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Headwarp

[Strikeeagle345]

"Supersampling is a spatial anti-aliasing method, i.e. a method used to remove aliasing (jagged and pixelated edges, colloquially known as "jaggies") from images rendered in computer games or other computer programs that generate imagery. Aliasing occurs because unlike real-world objects, which have continuous smooth curves and lines, a computer screen shows the viewer a large number of small squares. These pixels all have the same size, and each one has a single color. A line can only be shown as a collection of pixels, and therefore appears jagged unless it is perfectly horizontal or vertical. The aim of supersampling is to reduce this effect. Color samples are taken at several instances inside the pixel (not just at the center as normal), and an average color value is calculated. This is achieved by rendering the image at a much higher resolution than the one being displayed, then shrinking it to the desired size, using the extra pixels for calculation. The result is a downsampled image with smoother transitions from one line of pixels to another along the edges of objects."

 

You can very well think of SSAA's effect on performance in a similar regard to increasing rendered resolution. There's a reason why people using 1080P and 1440p monitors paired with a 1080Ti are having good results with it, where people running higher resolutions don't really need it to begin with, but take a much bigger performance hit than the former. Whether it's rendering more samples from pixels, or rendeirng more pixels.. it's still rendering more than just playing at your native resolution. By the way I don't use DSR or SSAA, running @ 3440x1440 which at the time pinned my 980Ti, and still puts my 2080Ti at 99% gpu usage in most cases using only msaa 2x along with my native resolution. Since then I've moved on to VR, but I'm still going to say SSAA's effect on performance mostly depends on your CPU/GPU/monitor combination. IF your gpu is more powerful than your monitor demands, ssaa will probaly be good to you, and imo is far more convenient than DSR. which I was not talking about DSR.

 

So, with SSAA 1.5, if it's not the pixel count, what is the 150% representitive of? A pixel and a half per pixel blended together? The samples have to be rendered as something.

These articles define SSAA much better than I can.

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2244562/anti-aliasing-fxaa-ssaa-msaa-txaa-ambient-occlusion.html

 

This wikipedia article explains SSAA more in depth, including the quote at the top of the post.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersampling

 

This article seems like a good read as well

https://techreport.com/review/27102/maxwell-dynamic-super-resolution-explored and even points out that my description of increased pixel count isn't "Entirely accurate" but also states "In a very nerdy way" which to me says , this explanation works in laymen's terms for those that often find themselves in the DCS World forums speaking in terms of framerate. This article states the effect on performance is the same between DSR and SSAA. So It doesn't hurt to think of supersampling, as an increase resolution when talking about its effects on performance. I don't claim to know all the science behind it. But it makes sense to me, and my reading of these forums from people who utilize SSAA with various displays and GPU's says to me - treat it like increasing your resolution. If CPU limited - try ssaa, if gpu limited - expect a significant hit to framerate.

 

 

 

SSAA has no effect in VR. just leave it off. And you should use either the in game pixel density setting, OR the occulus tray pixel density setting, (PD), not both. I.E. I use steamVR, in the steamVR settings for DCS I leave the application resolution or supersampling AKA Pixel Density or PD slider at 100% or 1.0 and set my in game pixel density setting anywhere between 1.5 to 2.0 depending on performance.

 

Using both your Occulus Tray PD above 1.0 and the in-game pixel density setting above 1.0 is applying supersampling to your already supersampled image. You only need one or the other. Adjust your pixel density with one of the two options for it, leave the other 1.0

 

I presonally use msaa (multi-sampled anti-aliasing) 2x in VR combined with a pixel density setting that allows for no less than 45 fps when flying low or otherwise happy with the image quality.

 

SSAA does have effect in VR. if I turn it on, the DDIs and MPCD in the hornet become VERY CLEAR. I run at a 1.5 pd as well. Without it, they are a tiny bit fuzzy.

[majapahit]

SSAA does have effect in VR. if I turn it on, the DDIs and MPCD in the hornet become VERY CLEAR. I run at a 1.5 pd as well. Without it, they are a tiny bit fuzzy.

Yep

[javelina1]

SSAA does have effect in VR. if I turn it on, the DDIs and MPCD in the hornet become VERY CLEAR. I run at a 1.5 pd as well. Without it, they are a tiny bit fuzzy.

 

 

I've heard over and over that it has no impact on VR. Hmmm...

[Strikeeagle345]

I've heard over and over that it has no impact on VR. Hmmm...

 

it sharpens everything in the cockpit. with out it, everything is a little fuzzy. Turn it on, I can read the text of all the labels, screens and even the nose, left, right lights for the gear indicator.

[javelina1]

it sharpens everything in the cockpit. with out it, everything is a little fuzzy. Turn it on, I can read the text of all the labels, screens and even the nose, left, right lights for the gear indicator.

 

 

I'll give it a whirl, later this evening.

 

 

thx,

[Strikeeagle345]

I'll give it a whirl, later this evening.

 

 

thx,

 

Something to note, the higher your PD the less you will notice it.:thumbup:

[Headwarp]

If it IS working in VR.. you could probably achieve similar effects by disabling it and just turning up pixel density.

 

Honestly I just flew around after setting my in game pixel density setting to 1.0 and upped my supersampling in the SteamVR settings to 200%, with msaa 2x and am quite pleased with the performance and picture quality. At least in my odyssey the guages and MFCD panels are easy enough to read after increasing pixel density.

 

Will have to do more comparison to determine whether I like the ingame Pixel density setting or the steamVR application resolution slider better. But I'm still not sold on mixing it with SSAA. The setting absolutely kills performance on my monitor with 3440x1440 resolution. My VR resolution is already supersampled to 2019x2512 per eye and running with motion reprojection on. It's like I said.. supersampling an already supersampled image. I don't know.. I'd be interested in hearing how you feel about a higher pixel density setting without ssaa vs a PD of 1.5 with ssaa.

 

Hard to visually ID air targets until you're close but overall feel like this is the best I'm gettting in VR. I honestly feel like a stronger VR zoom is about the only way to solve ID'ing targets at range in VR. It definitely helps in another sim I fly to have 10x zoom, where ID'ing on a monitor was much easier due to the sharper image, as well as a stronger zoom than what VR users get.

 

 

That being said I've still not encountered the white box issue discussed in another thread, even when pushing my PD/supersampling above 2.0 or 200%

Edited January 11, 2019 by Headwarp

[Strikeeagle345]

If it IS working in VR.. you could probably achieve similar effects by disabling it and just turning up pixel density.

 

Honestly I just flew around after setting my in game pixel density setting to 1.0 and upped my supersampling in the SteamVR settings to 200%, with msaa 2x and am quite pleased with the performance and picture quality. At least in my odyssey the guages and MFCD panels are easy enough to read after increasing pixel density.

 

Will have to do more comparison to determine whether I like the ingame Pixel density setting or the steamVR application resolution slider better. But I'm still not sold on mixing it with SSAA. The setting absolutely kills performance on my monitor with 3440x1440 resolution. My VR resolution is already supersampled to 2019x2512 per eye and running with motion reprojection on. It's like I said.. supersampling an already supersampled image. I don't know.. I'd be interested in hearing how you feel about a higher pixel density setting without ssaa vs a PD of 1.5 with ssaa.

 

Hard to visually ID air targets until you're close but overall feel like this is the best I'm gettting in VR. I honestly feel like a stronger VR zoom is about the only way to solve ID'ing targets at range in VR. It definitely helps in another sim I fly to have 10x zoom, where ID'ing on a monitor was much easier due to the sharper image, as well as a stronger zoom than what VR users get.

 

 

That being said I've still not encountered the white box issue discussed in another thread, even when pushing my PD/supersampling above 2.0 or 200%

 

at a PD pf 1.5 I things start to become fuzzy. If I step down to 1.3 PD and use SSAA at 1.5, everything is crystal clear in the cockpit. No mater the PD setting, everything has a slight fuz to it until SSAA is enabled. :huh:

[Shadow KT]

SSAA x2 or OFF has almost no effect on my end. A little over all FPS drop, like couple of frames less (GTX 1070 @1080p), but this last open beta update has recked my fps in general.

 

I am seeing 20-30 fps lower on average, with or without SSAA

[Alireza.kh]

the SSAA is good for those who use 1080p monitors that textures looks bad even with 4x MSAA and 16x AF. but i think the 1.5 and 2 SSAA are too high numbers for some systems like mine. i wish that we can change this number in future updates to 1.2, 1.3,...until 2 (or slider) for better performance.

[Svsmokey]

the SSAA is good for those who use 1080p monitors that textures looks bad even with 4x MSAA and 16x AF. but i think the 1.5 and 2 SSAA are too high numbers for some systems like mine. i wish that we can change this number in future updates to 1.2, 1.3,...until 2 (or slider) for better performance.

 

I also have a 1070 , and 1080p . I find 1.5 SSAA & 2X MSAA to be very helpful to minimise shimmering . No problem maintaining 60 frames low over Vegas in the Hornet .

[majapahit]

the SSAA is good for those who use 1080p monitors that textures looks bad even with 4x MSAA and 16x AF. but i think the 1.5 and 2 SSAA are too high numbers for some systems like mine. i wish that we can change this number in future updates to 1.2, 1.3,...until 2 (or slider) for better performance.

SSAA is a crazy insane way of implementing AA

 

Then again its mostly there I suspect for VR use, where these goggles somehow depend on a crazy insane way of implementing AA.

[Django]

Is there an equivalent override to SSAA in Nvidia Inspector?

[petsild]

In settings global Nvidia is a function of DSR that does the same thing.

[bad_turbulence]

SSAA is a crazy insane way of implementing AA

 

Then again its mostly there I suspect for VR use, where these goggles somehow depend on a crazy insane way of implementing AA.

what would be your recommendation for 3 to 4 monitors on single 2080Ti card as far as graphics in-game settings and on nVid. controller? 3 2K monitors 1 1080p? thx-in-advnce