Air Traffic Control: In the air & On the ground

[mytai01]

What's going on in the development of air traffic control in DCS?

 

One of the most annoying aspects of the the current ATC experience in DCS World is the fact that requests for take off require your aircraft to practically be on the runway before ATC responds. This is so far from realistic and very annoying that it makes me scream! ATC should respond well before or at the Hold Short line. They're going to say one of the following: "Hold Short, Runway XX(L/R, if applicable) or "Runway XX(L/R, if applicable), Line Up and Wait" followed by "Runway XX (L/R, if applicable), Cleared for Take Off" after a preceding departure is airborne and at least 6,000 feet down the runway (except as part of your formation flight), or 2 minutes after a heavy jet begins departure roll. Or, ATC is just going to say, "Runway XX(Left/Right, if applicable), Cleared for Take Off." It gets a little more complicated if Runways need to be crossed to get to your departure Runway.

 

Is this really that hard to program???

Edited June 3, 2018 by mytai01

[ekg]

+1 this is frustrating for me as well. Get clearance to taxi to the runway and then forced to taxi onto the runway at which point clearance for take off toggles automatically before lined up and ready for take off. Not realistic to say the least.

[mytai01]

I also forgot to mention that in real life Fighter IFR flight they are told to, "Change to Departure" as the last thing the tower says after the takeoff clearance...And military controllers are required to issue the wind with a takeoff clearance, "Wind, Tree Fife Zero at One Fife" That isn't misspelling. It's how it is correctly spoken...

Edited June 4, 2018 by mytai01

[msalama]

The ATC has been both very rudimentary and somewhat broken for years already. There was some talk about a forthcoming upgrade a while ago, but nothing has surfaced so far. Hoping for a fix myself too...

[falcon_120]

+1

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[=4c=Nikola]

I also forgot to mention that in real life Fighter IFR flight they are told to, "Change to Departure" as the last thing the tower says after the takeoff clearance...And military controllers are required to issue the wind with a takeoff clearance, "Wind, Tree Fife Zero at One Fife" That isn't misspelling. It's how it is correctly spoken...

 

Maybe that's how ATC works in your country.

 

It's complicated problem, many different countries, different procedures, different airspaces, different languages...

[Weasel]

I totally agree, ATC in DCSW is very poor and rudimentary. New and improved ATC was confirmed a while ago. First for carrier and later likely also for airfields

[mytai01]

Maybe that's how ATC works in your country.

 

It's complicated problem, many different countries, different procedures, different airspaces, different languages...

 

I once put out a request for information about Russian ATC, but I only got crickets...;)

[mytai01]

Maybe that's how ATC works in your country.

 

It's complicated problem, many different countries, different procedures, different airspaces, different languages...

 

I can tell you that when the US comes to a country to fight a war, ATC is provided by our own forces. Local ATC will be pushed out, because of security and quality concerns. I'm part of one of those units that would be there. We bring our own mobile tower (AN/MSN-7), Radar Approach Control (AN/MPN-14K), and TACAN (AN/TRN-48 ). Of course, we wouldn't do that to a highly developed country like those in Europe (unless they are the battlefield), but most other places that are in the Area of Operations (AO) would have their ATC replaced with ours.

 

Also, understand that ATC is only to get planes into and out of the Airport area. Towers control 5 statute miles up to 2,500 feet AGL (normally) and Radar Approach Controls usually out to 60 miles and up to whatever is needed vertically. One Radar Approach control will handle as many airports as are in it's Airspace. Normal ATC is suspended in an military AO. Civilian traffic would be tightly controlled to keep them out of harms way if allowed at all. Aircraft on missions go out with ATC and are handed off to whom ever controls the Airspace they are flying through all the way to their mission area. The whole AO will have some military authority controlling the Airspace that one must make contact with to enter and leave. There is no free for all cowboy action in the real world...The Air Operations Center (AOC) controls absolutely everything that is in the air. From Satellites to artillery fire and everything in between...

Edited June 4, 2018 by mytai01

[mytai01]

That all might be true but I can tell you I don't care what US do. I don't simulate US military operations.

 

This game has more than 20 playable nations, maps covering more than 10 countries, and you think we must all follow US military procedures?

 

One word: No!

 

I would love to know how the Russians do ATC ( military and civilian); operationally speaking. Much of the world is still developing their ATC capability. And, many countries contract out their ATC services to the US or don't have anything at all... I'm not sure if any other countries provide ATC contract services.

[Gierasimov]

Thanks!

 

I can tell you that when the US comes to a country to fight a war, ATC is provided by our own forces. Local ATC will be pushed out, because of security and quality concerns. I'm part of one of those units that would be there. We bring our own mobile tower (AN/MSN-7), Radar Approach Control (AN/MPN-14K), and TACAN (AN/TRN-48 ). Of course, we wouldn't do that to a highly developed country like those in Europe (unless they are the battlefield), but most other places that are in the Area of Operations (AO) would have their ATC replaced with ours.

 

Also, understand that ATC is only to get planes into and out of the Airport area. Towers control 5 statute miles up to 2,500 feet AGL (normally) and Radar Approach Controls usually out to 60 miles and up to whatever is needed vertically. One Radar Approach control will handle as many airports as are in it's Airspace. Normal ATC is suspended in an military AO. Civilian traffic would be tightly controlled to keep them out of harms way if allowed at all. Aircraft on missions go out with ATC and are handed off to whom ever controls the Airspace they are flying through all the way to their mission area. The whole AO will have some military authority controlling the Airspace that one must make contact with to enter and leave. There is no free for all cowboy action in the real world...The Air Operations Center (AOC) controls absolutely everything that is in the air. From Satellites to artillery fire and everything in between...

 

Very nice bit of info, thanks for that mate. Your insight allows to better represent US military ATC in custom made VOs for ATC control. Good stuff.

[FistofZen]

DCS: ATC, for just 39.99$.

[Napa]

DCS: ATC, for just 39.99$.

 

Oh hell no!! :megalol:

[DowntownSIX]

Much of the world is still developing their ATC capability. And, many countries contract out their ATC services to the US or don't have anything at all... I'm not sure if any other countries provide ATC contract services.

 

Sir, you have been eating too many American flags. Us buffoons in "much of the rest of the world" absolutely have Air Traffic Control authorities and do not routinely contract those services out to the U.S.

 

Who told you that?

[mytai01]

Sir, you have been eating too many American flags. Us buffoons in "much of the rest of the world" absolutely have Air Traffic Control authorities and do not routinely contract those services out to the U.S.

 

Who told you that?

 

It depends on what countries you're referring to.

[Backy 51]

That all might be true but I can tell you I don't care what US do. I don't simulate US military operations.

 

This game has more than 20 playable nations, maps covering more than 10 countries, and you think we must all follow US military procedures?

 

One word: No!

 

 

Maybe you need to look up ICAO … it's what the adults at the table agreed to in the 40's. Otherwise, you're sitting at the little boy's table with all the other children.

[mytai01]

ICAO has no authority over sovereign airspace. Not in peace time and especially not during war.

 

I think it more of an agreement between countries as to how handle international aviation...If your country didn't sign on to it then it certainly wouldn't have any authority, but I think it's more of agreed upon procedures that are used to keep everyone on the same ATC page...There are 192 countries that have sign on to ICAO. Which country are you saying doesn't comply with it???

Edited June 8, 2018 by mytai01

[=Mac=]

Hang on, guys! There's a simple solution to the problem....

 

"Hey, Scopes! There's a rumble on the forums. They need you, buddy!"

 

He speaks English, French, and when drunk, Pig Latin.

[mytai01]

United States of America.

 

And that's one more reason why I don't want USA ATC in game (other than for Nevada and US landable ships of course).

 

Anyway, you can deviate from ICAO SARPs but you should (again, it's not mandatory) publish differences in AIP GEN 1.7.

 

I'm not advocating that US ATC be used, except where it would actually occur. That's why I'm curious to know about Russian ATC (and every one else's ATC). Obviously, whatever missions are made should have the ATC that is most likely to actually exist in that mission for the situation you are modeling. That is what I'm most interested in seeing in DCS World.