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Cold War 1947 - 1991


Alpenwolf

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The F10 is not the answer. And as mentioned by some it wont stop teamkilling.

Friendly kills will always happen. No matter how technologically superior the equipment an army has, friendly fire is inevitable as it is in real life too. I quite often get mistaken for an A-10 when flying the L-39. The F10 wouldn't solve the problem because whoever that player is, he's going to pull the trigger nonetheless to only after that find out it was a friendly. Then they apologise in the team chat as if that'd just remedy their mistake instantly, especially when a mistake like that could've had been avoided by simply being on comms. And when asked to join SRS for exactly that bloody reason, their microphone doesn't work or SRS is bugged or grandma is sleeping, etc.

The point is that it always comes down to the lack of comms. And I've lost count on how many times it has been made clear that comms are vital in multiplayer. So it's not the F10 map, not the weather, not your graphics card or any other reason any player might come up with. These can surely be a minor reason in some cases but never the major one.

Think of the F10 tool as a map handed to you in the briefing room with maybe some marks on it to help you understand a thing or two. That's it. Not a navigation system nor an IFF assessment.

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The F10 is not the answer. And as mentioned by some it wont stop teamkilling.

Friendly kills will always happen. No matter how technologically superior the equipment an army has, friendly fire is inevitable as it is in real life too. I quite often get mistaken for an A-10 when flying the L-39. The F10 wouldn't solve the problem because whoever that player is, he's going to pull the trigger nonetheless to only after that find out it was a friendly. Then they apologise in the team chat as if that'd just remedy their mistake instantly, especially when a mistake like that could've had been avoided by simply being on comms. And when asked to join SRS for exactly that bloody reason, their microphone doesn't work or SRS is bugged or grandma is sleeping, etc.

The point is that it always comes down to the lack of comms. And I've lost count on how many times it has been made clear that comms are vital in multiplayer. So it's not the F10 map, not the weather, not your graphics card or any other reason any player might come up with. These can surely be a minor reason in some cases but never the major one.

Think of the F10 tool as a map handed to you in the briefing room with maybe some marks on it to help you understand a thing or two. That's it. Not a navigation system nor an IFF assessment.

 

Friendly kills may always happen, but they can be reduced. You seriously just made the argument that "people are always going to die, so there's no point for the medical field to exist, or safety measures like airbags". "GCI will always happen. No matter how technologically inferior the equipment the reds have, GCI is inevitable as it is in real life too. I quite often get mistaken as an F-5 when flying the MiG-21. The F10 map would solve the problem because depending who the player is, he isn't going to pull the trigger as quickly as other potential teamkillers, and may have the decent sense to quickly check the F10 map in case neither of us are on SRS, the microphone doesn't work or SRS is bugged or grandma is sleeping etc".

 

I'm not asking for a map with the fog of war completely removed, I'm asking for a stand-in for what we would know if we had a GCI. A...Simulation, if you will. I've at least proposed a solution to a current problem, rather than make a blanket statement with zero evidence of a potential reduction of FF incidents. I at least had the good graces to do some quick research, and notice there were more A2A friendly fire incidents with guns during WW2 in single years, than there were A2A friendly fire incidents using missiles and guns during the whole 20 years of the Vietnam war.

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If you don't have a GCI, as Alpen has said, either deal with the lack of SA or take the position. F10 is still not a good alternative for another player feeding you info (though to be fair, the fact that GCI is done through F10 and not LotATC means we have too much info, too up to date - player name, type, and their exact position at any given time!) and I don't know about you, but the last time I'd want to open the F10 map is in a fight or when low to the ground, especially given its habit of freezing the game.

 

The F10 map does not prevent teamkills on GS. It doesn't prevent teamkills on GAW. People either don't check it, they fire anyway, or the teamkills happen (as at least one did yesterday) because they fired at a legitimate target without realising a nearby MiG would distract the missile's seeker. In almost every case I've seen teamkills happen on this server, F10 would not have helped either because the player involved was not deliberately shooting at a teammate, or they never check the map anyway and were not on comms. The last time I was teamkilled was because someone tried to lob an R-60 over my shoulder to kill the guy I was gunning. There was no failure in IFF there, he knew there was a friendly in front of him and he took the shot anyway. It tracked the F-5 but the proximity fuze detonated off my left wing and blew most of my controls out, so I had to put down in a field.

 

F10 isn't some magic cureall, and personally I like that there's just that little bit more incentive to learn how to use the various aircrafts' radio and/or doppler navigation aids (even though you can still use the kneeboard anyway).

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If you don't have a GCI, as Alpen has said, either deal with the lack of SA or take the position. F10 is still not a good alternative for another player feeding you info (though to be fair, the fact that GCI is done through F10 and not LotATC means we have too much info, too up to date - player name, type, and their exact position at any given time!) and I don't know about you, but the last time I'd want to open the F10 map is in a fight or when low to the ground, especially given its habit of freezing the game.

 

The F10 map does not prevent teamkills on GS. It doesn't prevent teamkills on GAW. People either don't check it, they fire anyway, or the teamkills happen (as at least one did yesterday) because they fired at a legitimate target without realising a nearby MiG would distract the missile's seeker. In almost every case I've seen teamkills happen on this server, F10 would not have helped either because the player involved was not deliberately shooting at a teammate, or they never check the map anyway and were not on comms. The last time I was teamkilled was because someone tried to lob an R-60 over my shoulder to kill the guy I was gunning. There was no failure in IFF there, he knew there was a friendly in front of him and he took the shot anyway. It tracked the F-5 but the proximity fuze detonated off my left wing and blew most of my controls out, so I had to put down in a field.

 

F10 isn't some magic cureall, and personally I like that there's just that little bit more incentive to learn how to use the various aircrafts' radio and/or doppler navigation aids (even though you can still use the kneeboard anyway).

 

Please see definitions for: Reduction vs Prevention. And this has nothing to do with navigation. This has to do with (as you've asked my situation) me taking a glance at the map to see "are there any friendly aircraft nearby, or do I have free reign on the black blob flying in a straight line 2 miles from me, enough for me to fire a missile but not enough to identify in VR?", which I would know if we had simulated GCI that would tell me if there are, regardless if people are on comms or not. You're also avoiding the issue of people playing in VR, people with different eyesight, glasses, monitors, graphics settings and can't visually identify stuff from the same distance because everything has the same shape due to DCS' bad spotting and rendering mechanics.

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I fly in VR. And if I cant ID, than I hold until I get closer. Solution is not F10, solution is between the eyeballs.

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Yeah, you're talking about reducing teamkills, I'm aware of that. Still, it doesn't change anything so the emphasis is neither on reduction nor prevention. Flying low, flying fast, pulling tight turns and while trying not to crash into the ground you really expect players to hit the F10 key and then amidst all the Red units all over the map understand the situation with a mere "glance"? No chance. If you have your eyes on a target the last thing you want to do is take your eyes away from it. One hardly checks out his instruments. Let alone having a look at a large F10 map with various objects on it to then hit the F1 key and "wooosh"! Target's gone.

As others have already said, you see the same behaviour even on servers where not just the F10 shows you all you need to see, but external views and even the one that shows you any nearby threats are enabled. And still teamkills occur.

Enabling the F10 view would only be misused as a tool for navigation as quite many players used to ask for it years ago and for quite a long time. In time they accepted the fact that it will always be just a map. And now out of nowhere that old issue should become relevant? Because players would only think of it as a navigation system which is why most servers allow it in the first place. And not for IFF purposes. I've never heard that in all my DCS years. You're the first one I know to think of it like that. Which is why most of us here and mainly those who've been around DCS for years are trying to tell you that it wont work. I don't think anyone was ridiculing or condescending but rather sharing their long time experience with yet another DCS issue.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

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*Blushes*

 

Shame that tonight we were doing fairly well, lost 1-2 GCIs and then everything fell apart. GCI most overpowered module confirmed? Kinda imbalanced when one side has one and the other doesn't.

 

*Goes into mulitplayer, pulls up Cold war server. Sees an even mix of planes, but then sees blue has 2 people in tactical Cmdr, and Red has none*

 

"No thanks.....I choose life...."

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Server News:

 

Operation Street Fight:

- The number of the available aircraft has been reduced, in some cases by 50%.

- With that the number of the available weapons has also been reduced.

- SA342M's, SA342L's and UH-1's operate from a FARP 5 miles southeast of Kiryat Shmona airbase and NOT from the airbase itself.

- Smoke effects optimised.

- Ground units' advanced options optimised.

- Added 8 more ground units for Blue, mainly around Kiryat Shmona airbase.

 

NOTE:

Reducing the number of the available aircraft is due to the fact that we haven't seen a scenario of one coalition running out of a certain type of aircraft yet. Shows how sensible players fly these days which is top notch! But it would be interesting to see how one side would react in such a situation.

The mission goes online tonight after the mission Open Range.

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Server News:

 

Operation Street Fight:

- The number of the available aircraft has been reduced, in some cases by 50%.

- With that the number of the available weapons has also been reduced.

- SA342M's, SA342L's and UH-1's operate from a FARP 5 miles southeast of Kiryat Shmona airbase and NOT from the airbase itself.

- Smoke effects optimised.

- Ground units' advanced options optimised.

- Added 8 more ground units for Blue, mainly around Kiryat Shmona airbase.

 

NOTE:

Reducing the number of the available aircraft is due to the fact that we haven't seen a scenario of one coalition running out of a certain type of aircraft yet. Shows how sensible players fly these days which is top notch! But it would be interesting to see how one side would react in such a situation.

The mission goes online tonight after the mission Open Range.

 

Yeah, it's annoying that yesterday we splashed like 6 Tomcats at least, but it doesn't really have an effect on the mission beyond regularly wiping red, given that that's only half of their Tomcat reserves, and by then everyone was logging off.

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Yeah, it's annoying that yesterday we splashed like 6 Tomcats at least, but it doesn't really have an effect on the mission beyond regularly wiping red, given that that's only half of their Tomcat reserves, and by then everyone was logging off.

 

Because players fly more sensibly now, especially with all these restrictions and limitations. I like that.

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Because players fly more sensibly now, especially with all these restrictions and limitations. I like that.

 

You do know that 3 of the Tomcat kills yesterday were from them yeeting themselves into Shiraz' air defence? That is literally the opposite of sensible flying, and yet we never saw an end to the Tomcats coming in.

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You do know that 3 of the Tomcat kills yesterday were from them yeeting themselves into Shiraz' air defence? That is literally the opposite of sensible flying, and yet we never saw an end to the Tomcats coming in.

 

Compared to all the years before and many servers, yes, they do fly more sensibly. Get the point, man, it doesn't mean each and every player, but rather the average Cold War player. 3 players are nothing compared to what I saw from Red players yesterday trying to RTB no matter what.

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You do know that 3 of the Tomcat kills yesterday were from them yeeting themselves into Shiraz' air defence? That is literally the opposite of sensible flying, and yet we never saw an end to the Tomcats coming in.

Ha, you should fly blue when Tomcats are available. You'll quickly notice the slots are filled by non-Cold War regulars who see a high population count from the server browser, and also see Tomcat slots.

 

Said players aren't on SRS, take a full complement of missiles (especially the extremely limited 9L), and will either disconnect, crash, or land at LAR and disconnect without de-arming (causing not only loss of plane, but its weapons too) all before ever seeing combat. Of those that actually find the AO, they typically get pounced by multiple fighters because they aren't on SRS or they fly right over SAMs.

 

To sum up. While you killed six, and think blue has an unlimited supply left the reality ... we had maybe two, and only the really shitty 7F left.

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Ha, you should fly blue when Tomcats are available. You'll quickly notice the slots are filled by non-Cold War regulars who see a high population count from the server browser, and also see Tomcat slots.

 

Said players aren't on SRS, take a full complement of missiles (especially the extremely limited 9L), and will either disconnect, crash, or land at LAR and disconnect without de-arming (causing not only loss of plane, but its weapons too) all before ever seeing combat. Of those that actually find the AO, they typically get pounced by multiple fighters because they aren't on SRS or they fly right over SAMs.

 

To sum up. While you killed six, and think blue has an unlimited supply left the reality ... we had maybe two, and only the really shitty 7F left.

 

I knew this would become an issue one day. Inevitable. Same behaviour with some MiG-29 player. I urged him to come on SRS. He then said... well, go ahead and guess what he said! "SRS is bugged". On one hand I wanted to kick him out of the server, on the other hand that'd cause the loss of one MiG-29.

Here's why I did or at least try to do. If I catch a MiG-29 player not on comms and he's STILL at the airbase (whether parking, taxiing or even rolling) I kick him out with a pm saying: "Use SRS please, otherwise you will be kicked again". I caught two players doing that but certainly not all of them. And no that wouldn't count as a loss as long as he's still on the ground.

If the Blue GCI operator notices the same then let me right away, please. Best way to do it is through TS because I might not read your typing quick enough, especially if some players are typing back and forth and having an argument.

I'm working on an alternative for that which I think will be a better solution. Bear with me, please.

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I hope that alternative involves enforcing the use of SRS. Flying without comms on your server is meaningless.

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DCS module wishlist: F-104S ASA-M Starfighter / F-111F Aardvark / F-4E Phantom II / J 35F2 Draken / J-7M AirGuard / Kfir C.2 / MiG-17F / MiG-21 Bison / Mirage F1 / Su-17M4 / Su-24M / Yak-9U

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I hope that alternative involves enforcing the use of SRS. Flying without comms on your server is meaningless.

 

Enforcing SRS is yet another issue and in fact a major one. That too is being worked on with a friend who happens to be a programmer. He'll look into it over the next days and we'll try and come up with a script for that purpose. We're also working on limiting the R-60M's for MiG-29's and Su-25's only. This will involve a lot of scripting and testing and I can only hope he finds enough time to do that. No time limit in that regard. Days, weeks, months... can't tell.

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I’m with you on this one :thumbup:

One will be surprised how quickly they will adapt..

 

:thumbup:

 

 

Enforcing SRS is yet another issue and in fact a major one. That too is being worked on with a friend who happens to be a programmer. He'll look into it over the next days and we'll try and come up with a script for that purpose. We're also working on limiting the R-60M's for MiG-29's and Su-25's only. This will involve a lot of scripting and testing and I can only hope he finds enough time to do that. No time limit in that regard. Days, weeks, months... can't tell.

 

Excellent, looking forward to it. If you need a tester then please let me know.

DCS module wishlist: F-104S ASA-M Starfighter / F-111F Aardvark / F-4E Phantom II / J 35F2 Draken / J-7M AirGuard / Kfir C.2 / MiG-17F / MiG-21 Bison / Mirage F1 / Su-17M4 / Su-24M / Yak-9U

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Enforcing SRS is yet another issue and in fact a major one. That too is being worked on with a friend who happens to be a programmer. He'll look into it over the next days and we'll try and come up with a script for that purpose. We're also working on limiting the R-60M's for MiG-29's and Su-25's only. This will involve a lot of scripting and testing and I can only hope he finds enough time to do that. No time limit in that regard. Days, weeks, months... can't tell.

 

I know the Hoggit devs already have this in place on their servers. They have a channel specifically for developers so they could easily help you out. https://discord.gg/hoggit

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Is there anyway to set the comms on the MiG 29 to the 124 channel by default? It is currently set to 251 when they first start up. I just started using SRS this week and when I flew my first sortie I was trying in vain to get on comms and had to wait till i finished my first sortie and landed to get it sorted for my second sortie.

 

Also there seems to be a bug when refueling and rearming the MiG 29. If you bring back the centerline tank instead of jettisoning it and then try to refuel and rearm, the fuel gauge only shows the internal fuel and it doesn't seem to put on a new full external tank

 

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Is there anyway to set the comms on the MiG 29 to the 124 channel by default? It is currently set to 251 when they first start up. I just started using SRS this week and when I flew my first sortie I was trying in vain to get on comms and had to wait till i finished my first sortie and landed to get it sorted for my second sortie.

 

Also there seems to be a bug when refueling and rearming the MiG 29. If you bring back the centerline tank instead of jettisoning it and then try to refuel and rearm, the fuel gauge only shows the internal fuel and it doesn't seem to put on a new full external tank

 

You can use the bindings in SRS to increase and decrease freq without using the overlay for FC3 stuff. I use Down 10, and Up 1 bindings. In other news, bloody hell it's impossible to do squat at night when trying to find people on the deck. Not like radar's gonna work at low alt.

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You can use the bindings in SRS to increase and decrease freq without using the overlay for FC3 stuff. I use Down 10, and Up 1 bindings. In other news, bloody hell it's impossible to do squat at night when trying to find people on the deck. Not like radar's gonna work at low alt.

 

Yeah and I was able to once I landed and could bring up the overlay (didn't want to mess with it in the air and risk crashing and losing the plane) but to prevent some confusion with new players using SRS just having the channel preset like in the MiG 21 could solve some minor headaches

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