DCS: MiG-23MLA by RAZBAM

[Harlikwin]

The one using m/c is climb rate

 

I'm assuming thats meter/second (where C is seconds in the other graphs? Cyril and Methodius didn't get to spread their messed up letters in my part of the world ;) we used the real ones.

[foxbat155]

Yea, that's meters per second.

[OverStratos]

And those tables still doesn't show entirely the performance of the MiG-23MLA.

Also, the only MLDs that had structural modifications were the Soviet ones.

[Harlikwin]

Were those MLD's exported at any point, or were all the so called "MLD" in foreign service just modified MLA?

[TLTeo]

According to Airvectors (http://airvectors.net/avmig23_1.html#m6) only the Soviet aircraft had the aerodynamic improvements.

[foxbat155]

Were those MLD's exported at any point, or were all the so called "MLD" in foreign service just modified MLA?

 

 

Only case when original MLD were exported during USSR existence was bulgarian case ( 5 aircraft swapped for 4 MiG-25 ). After Soviet Union collapse several used aircrafts withdrawn from service in former SU republics inventory were sold to Syria and Angola. According some sources few ex-Soviet MLD's were donated to Libya lately, but no photo evidence.

[Harlikwin]

Ok, so there are/were some actual MLD's that made it out of the USSR.

 

But since we are getting the MLA it was more of an academic question.

[foxbat155]

During Soviet Union times only those 5 for Bulgaria.

 

 

Weaponry for MiG-23ML/MLA according manual:

 

 

[TLTeo]

It looks like there are no rocket pods?

[Trident GER]

You can load S5 and S8 rockets

[TLTeo]

Ah my bad I noticed them now. For some reason I thought that was the gun/gunpod ammo.

[Mars Exulte]

The charts and the AoA gauge detail highlighted earlier are really interesting. I think the 23 has been underrated due to 3rd world operators. Those figures presented are quite respectable, especially for its era

[Cyrus]

While I enjoy flying the MiG-21bis despite all its limitations and look forward to the MiG-23MLA, I do not have high expectations about its performance other than its speed. From the Osprey booklet Duel 72, on the results of the USAF 'Constant Peg' program in which ten MiG-23s were assessed and pitted against US aircraft:

 

The type was almost universally reviled by the “Red Eagles” pilots because of its unreliable handling characteristics. On the eve of Operation Desert Storm, one former “Red Eagles” pilot summed up the “Flogger” by saying, “When the MiG-23 had first come out, [uSAF Intelligence] had told us that this jet was going to be a huge threat to American and Coalition airplanes. They told us it had tremendous capabilities and we should be scared to death of it. From a tactical fighter pilot’s point of view, the thing was a piece of junk.”

[Dudikoff]

While I enjoy flying the MiG-21bis despite all its limitations and look forward to the MiG-23MLA, I do not have high expectations about its performance other than its speed. From the Osprey booklet Duel 72, on the results of the USAF 'Constant Peg' program in which ten MiG-23s were assessed and pitted against US aircraft:

 

Those were the MiG-23MS models, IIRC. The MLA should be lighter and more maneuverable, not to mention having a much better radar and weapons since the export MS models were severely dumbed down (they had MiG-21 radar and missiles, no RWR, etc.).

 

So, while the quote "From a tactical fighter pilot’s point of view, the thing was a piece of junk." sounds just about right for the lowly MS model, the better variants are vastly more capable in comparison.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Dudikoff

[pepin1234]

The charts and the AoA gauge detail highlighted earlier are really interesting. I think the 23 has been underrated due to 3rd world operators. Those figures presented are quite respectable, especially for its era

 

Because it is MLA/MLD yes, we find good performance there.

 

About the poor success in certain Middle East conflicts. Sometimes they were in tactical and technological disadvantage. Israel with AWACS and F-15 vs the crappy mixed version of Mig-23 from Syria (I guess many people here know the disadvantage between AWACS and GCI). I don’t know if Soviets help Syria with AWACS for those Cold War conflicts. I guess Nop.

 

Iraq-Iran F-14 most of the time was far away from hot areas giving a important kind of tactical AWACS use. Iraq didn’t have this important service. together with all the crappy versions with poor avionic that never help.

 

Soviets export policy help for those poor results.

[Кош]

Tech is just a part of the equation. You have to actually fight with it, with skill and motivation. Syria had pretty nice setup in terms of hardware - including automated IADS. What they did is violating almost every AD tactics textbook and neglecting advisors. You can compare Syrians with the Cubans in Angola if you want.

[pepin1234]

Tech is just a part of the equation. You have to actually fight with it, with skill and motivation. Syria had pretty nice setup in terms of hardware - including automated IADS. What they did is violating almost every AD tactics textbook and neglecting advisors. You can compare Syrians with the Cubans in Angola if you want.

 

That’s also true. I agree with you. I just didn’t want go beyond the Tech issue because then I need to jump in personal issues.

 

About Cubans in Angola. SAAF wanted to do the same ambushes to the Cubans. Worked well the first two. After those Cubans never bite again. Also after that Cubans did respond to SAAF with their own ambushes just did it different.

Edited August 21, 2019 by pepin1234

[Cyrus]

Those were the MiG-23MS models, IIRC. The MLA should be lighter and more maneuverable, not to mention having a much better radar and weapons since the export MS models were severely dumbed down (they had MiG-21 radar and missiles, no RWR, etc.).

 

So, while the quote "From a tactical fighter pilot’s point of view, the thing was a piece of junk." sounds just about right for the lowly MS model, the better variants are vastly more capable in comparison.

 

And two BN models. Certainly, compared to the MS and BN, the MLA version was lightened and had a more powerful engine, but I have my doubts these would make it competitive on normal MP servers.

 

I would not expect too much of the Sapfir III radar either, just a +/- 30 degree scan zone in the horizontal plane and +/- 6 in the vertical with a very thin beam (2.5-3.5 degrees), optimized for frontal arc engagements with much shorter detection ranges for lower flying targets and little ability to detect or track targets in the chase. The aircraft was still wedded to the GCI to find its targets.

 

The MiG-23MLA will most likely find its proper place on the various Cold War themed MP servers. Hopefully, BD will make a nice campaign for it.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Cyrus

[Harlikwin]

Tech is just a part of the equation. You have to actually fight with it, with skill and motivation. Syria had pretty nice setup in terms of hardware - including automated IADS. What they did is violating almost every AD tactics textbook and neglecting advisors. You can compare Syrians with the Cubans in Angola if you want.

 

I recall reading about the Syrians trying to "hide" an SA6 site (fixed) with smoke to hide it from air attack... It just made it easier to see...

[Кош]

I recall reading about the Syrians trying to "hide" an SA6 site (fixed) with smoke to hide it from air attack... It just made it easier to see...

And placing an EW radar in the valley because putting it on a hill is extra work... And not shooting down anti-radiation and other guided missiles for what there are manuals starting from early 70's, for the S-75 crews.

[OverStratos]

I would not expect too much of the Sapfir III radar either, just a +/- 30 degree scan zone in the horizontal plane and +/- 6 in the vertical with a very thin beam (2.5-3.5 degrees), optimized for frontal arc engagements with much shorter detection ranges for lower flying targets and little ability to detect or track targets in the chase. The aircraft was still wedded to the GCI to find its targets.

 

 

You are just talking here about the beam properties of the radar without taking into account that the antenna actually moves so it sweeps the space in front of it. The N003 search sweep cover +30°/-35° in elevation and 60° in azimuth. This can change in dependence of the radar mode.

 

 

As this radar belongs to the firsts to use Doppler signals for look-down, anything under 1km altitude is detected below the distance of 30km.

Edited August 21, 2019 by OverStratos

[Harlikwin]

And two BN models. Certainly, compared to the MS and BN, the MLA version was lightened and had a more powerful engine, but I have my doubts these would make it competitive on normal MP servers.

 

I would not expect too much of the Sapfir III radar either, just a +/- 30 degree scan zone in the horizontal plane and +/- 6 in the vertical with a very thin beam (2.5-3.5 degrees), optimized for frontal arc engagements with much shorter detection ranges for lower flying targets and little ability to detect or track targets in the chase. The aircraft was still wedded to the GCI to find its targets.

 

The MiG-23MLA will most likely find its proper place on the various Cold War themed MP servers. Hopefully, BD will make a nice campaign for it.

 

Its not going to be "competitive" in the classic DCS aeroquake until some actual 70's era blufor birds are built for it to shoot down. That being said I think it should do ok against an F5E or F86... Raz will produce the latest greatest mirage to stay up-to-date in aeroquake world.

[OverStratos]

Its not going to be "competitive" in the classic DCS aeroquake until some actual 70's era blufor birds are built for it to shoot down. That being said I think it should do ok against an F5E or F86... Raz will produce the latest greatest mirage to stay up-to-date in aeroquake world.

 

 

It will be competitive with everything you have in DCS now unless they are armed with active AAMs of corse, and even then it should not be imposible either.

[probad]

competitiveness is an attitude

 

ill never forget watching wumas take on 3 flankers in a f-5, they threw everything at him including r-73s but he jammed every shot through superior positioning

Edited August 21, 2019 by probad

[Harlikwin]

It will be competitive with everything you have in DCS now unless they are armed with active AAMs of corse, and even then it should not be imposible either.

 

I guess what I was getting at is that the aeroquake set generally want the bestest most modernest uber fighter. This won't be it. I'll fly it online and enjoy it though.