animaal Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 I'm just starting to fly the MiG-21, and at first glance the MiG21 cockpit looks very similar to the MiG 23 cockpit. They even appear to have used the same interior designer and soft furnishings :) Would I be correct in thinking that the flight/systems principles are likely to be very similar? And even the startup procedures may have a lot of similarities? Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K, Kempston joystick Interface, Alba Cassette Recorder, Quickshot II Turbo Joystick
MAD-MM Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 SPO-10 from the MIG21 doesn't work very well with the limitations of DCS Radar... Hope RAZBAM find a better solution for the MLA...was also hopping for MLD but we see how it goes... Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 9./JG27
Hatefury Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 I think keeping the 23 cockpit to a similar layout to the 21 was done intentionally to make it easier to convert 21 pilots to the 23s.
Esac_mirmidon Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Thats a common thing in all Russian Cockpit designs. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Stratos Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 At weapons level, the MLA and MLD are quite similar. Similar, but not the same. AFAIK, no R-73 for the MLA, no R-24, and no flare dispenser. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
Esac_mirmidon Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 The R-24R and R-24T was introduced first on MLA´s, and then on MLD´s. Thats what Yefim Gordon, Squadron Signal and several russian books are saying. About R-73 some sources claim that was added to retrofited MLA´s. Around half MLA´s were upgraded to MLD but several hundreds of MLA´s were retrofited with some MLD updates, some only with R-73, some with SPO-15, not complete MLD updagrade pack, but able to carry the R-73 at least. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Stratos Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) The R-24R and R-24T was introduced first on MLA´s, and then on MLD´s. Thats what Yefim Gordon, Squadron Signal and several russian books are saying. About R-73 some sources claim that was added to retrofited MLA´s. Around half MLA´s were upgraded to MLD but several hundreds of MLA´s were retrofited with some MLD updates, some only with R-73, some with SPO-15, not complete MLD updagrade pack, but able to carry the R-73 at least. No pondría la mano en el fuego... Estaría bien que RAZBAM o OverStratos aclararan estas cosas. Lo que si está claro es que el Kh.23 será muy divertido de usar en combate. I would not put my hand on the fire... Would be interested that Razbam or Overstatos clarify this things. What's clear is that the Kh.23 will be really fun to use in combat. Edited June 20, 2018 by Stratos I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
Esac_mirmidon Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Well im pretty sure about MLA and R-24. All books i have are saying the same. About R-73 thats much less consistent. Some sources said that, others doesnt mention it at all. About retrofited equipment on MLA´s i´ve just found some time ago pics of museum MLA´s with a SPO-15 but sometimes the MLA label are not right and could be a MLD. But the R-24 thing im almost sure about. If they are going to model a normal MLA they should have R-24, but no flares, no SPO-15 and maybe yes R-73. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Sarraceno Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 I hope that at least they come with optional countermeasures like the Bis...
probad Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 i find it a little strange how obsessed people are with dispensed countermeasures despite the primary factor in missile defense being geometry
Sarraceno Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 i find it a little strange how obsessed people are with dispensed countermeasures despite the primary factor in missile defense being geometry You're right, but with the coming spam every little bit will be useful
Mars Exulte Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Indeed, countermeasures weren't standard issue in many air forces it seems until the 80s and all aspect missiles. If the bandit has good position, discipline, and fires inside good launch parameters, CMs won't help you. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2
Zeus67 Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Similar, but not the same. AFAIK, no R-73 for the MLA, no R-24, and no flare dispenser. Only the R-73 is not available on the MLA. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."
lmp Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 So we're getting countermeasure dispensers? Nice. Hey Zeus, what sort of nav equipment does the MiG have? INS? RSBN?
OxideMako Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Only the R-73 is not available on the MLA. If we are getting countermeasures, do you have an idea of the RWR model we will be getting yet?
Stratos Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Only the R-73 is not available on the MLA. Interesting. Can you please explain about the used RWR and the countermesures please? I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
Esac_mirmidon Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 You can see the SPO-10 here in the left side of the cockpit on the canopy frame. ( in the same place as the Mirage dispenser display ) " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
probad Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 you dont get the point, he wants to squeeze zeus for promises of cm racks and spo-15 there is no attitude of "i will be resourceful and make the best of what i have" there is only "give me the best"
Esac_mirmidon Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Well, then he is going to be disappointed. No CM, no R-73 and no SPO-15 on MLA´s. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Sealpup Posted June 21, 2018 Posted June 21, 2018 Well, then he is going to be disappointed. No CM, no R-73 and no SPO-15 on MLA´s. Unless they are Iraqi MLAs. Then they get CM and SPO-15. Or they are partially through the MLA > MLD conversion. Then you can roll 3d6 to figure out what combination of kit they get.
pngflyer Posted June 21, 2018 Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) Hi, I’m reading Red Eagles at the moment. A great read. The Mig 23 was a pig to fly if those reports are to be believed. US pilots who flew it felt like the aircraft wanted to kill them, and was disliked by all those in the Red Eagles who flew it. It has some bizarre aerodynamic “quirks” which proved very dangerous. For example “air intake buzz” was a compressor stall in one engine intake and not the other which caused a yaw and a secondary roll at speed. This was very difficult to recover from under certain circumstances. Also, the 23 had a throttle interlock which physically prevented the pilot from retarding the throttle too fast at high Mach speeds. This was to prevent the engine from literally ripping out of the engine mounts and separating from the aircraft if the throttle was pulled back at high speeds. Only when the speed had decayed to below 1.5 Mach was the pilot able to select idle power. This meant that they were stuck at higher Mach numbers irrespective of what else the aircraft was doing, while the pilot just sat and watched the airspeed slowly come down. If the aircraft developed a PIO for example the pilots just had to ride it out till their speed came down and the interlock allowed them to throttle back. A narrow tricycle undercarriage meant that it could ground loop easily. The wing carry through box had problems with cracking. The engines were extremely short lived, and the aircraft just wouldn’t turn. But it was ridiculously fast... Pilots said that it would easily speed through placard limits as the engine just had so much raw power. Are we sure we want this as a module for DCS:). Maybe all this didn’t apply to later models, but I’m not sure. pngflyer Edited June 21, 2018 by pngflyer
Esac_mirmidon Posted June 21, 2018 Posted June 21, 2018 Not the same version. Red Eagles Migs were the MS version from Egypt. ( you know the history with soviet fighters exports, downgraded, detuned versions of the Russian ones ) The MLA is lighter ( more than 1000 Kg less ), with a more powerful engine and a lot of changes in the aerodynamic envelope to improve handling, AoA in maneuver, max G´s, etc. Also about CM, SPO-15, thats what i was talking about some post earlier. The original MLA´s doesnt have any of that. After some time when the MLD´s were built using mostly MLA´s frames, some MLA versions get some of the improvements but nothing on the MLD complete level. Some retrofited with SPO-15, others with CM dispensers but the arrival of the Mig-29 was a serious stop for any upgrade on the MIg-23 family. No point on expending resources on the 23 when a much more capable fighter is coming. Anyway if Razbam choose a "original" MLA, no R-73, no SPO-15, no CM. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
Tread_Head57 Posted June 21, 2018 Posted June 21, 2018 I get the feeling we'll get whatever the aircraft RAZBAM has access to has on it. Soviet aircraft were never truly standardized, and there were versions within versions, so SPO-10 + CM would not be unrealistic. Zeus seemed to hint earlier in this thread that the MLA we'll get will have flares.
OverStratos Posted June 21, 2018 Posted June 21, 2018 Soviet aircraft were never truly standardized I´m afraid this is wrong, most of the regular service types were standard on all services, with the same specifications. They received service updates (factory or field ones) as in any other country. Most of the differences are noticed by the series number, or a letter, like MIG-21Bis A, K, etc. But in any of this series there were hundreds of aircraft with the same parts and they were interchangeable no problem. The MIG-23MLA will have an SPO-15 and the ability to mount ECM dispensers as many have them late in service life. Then, there will be an original one with SPO-10. No R-73 though.
ED Team NineLine Posted June 21, 2018 ED Team Posted June 21, 2018 i find it a little strange how obsessed people are with dispensed countermeasures despite the primary factor in missile defense being geometry But they look pretty in videos ;) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
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