F-5E Or M-2000C?

[Dun_Aenghus]

The Mirage also has a fantastic free campaign made by Baltic Dragon. Well worth the investment.

[Kev2go]

if you want to buy a on sale model buy the F5E because it fills a different era of combat ( 3rd generation) . ITs still fun and simple to fly.

 

M2000C as a 4tg gen aircraft (unless you really like that platform) imo is kinda Redundant because Hornet Does everything it can. AS it becomes more and more fleshed out over time F18 will allow far more replay-ability than the M2000C, becuase it will have far more longer list of mission types, and more modern technology.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Kev2go

[FlankerMan]

Well, I don't have and can't afford the Hornet, and I do prefer more advanced aircraft. I'm sure the F-5E-3 Tiger II is a great 3rd-Generation dogfighter, and I'll probably get it sometime (maybe this Christmas), but I think right now I'll get the Mirage 2000C.

[nessuno0505]

IMHO the A-10C is a bad choice for a first full fidelity module. There's just sooo much to learn. You'll be reading rather than flying for weeks.

 

That's true, but you'll have a direct impact with What a full clickable module Means. And you could fall in love with dcs and understand with no doubt why it's better than any other game so called "simulator".

 

 

M2000C as a 4tg gen aircraft (unless you really like that platform) imo is kinda Redundant because Hornet Does everything it can.

 

That's also something to think about. We have f/a-18, we'll have f-14 in a while and we'll have f-16c and f-15 stike Eagle in the future, not to mention av-8b that's not a fighter but is 4th gen. Maybe it's better to wait and buy now something different, since in the future you'll have few chances to fly a Mirage (unless you are from France or you like that plane for a personal reason)

[Svend_Dellepude]

F-5 is a blast. In SP you can make your own missions to hold your own. In MP you will just get killed if up against anything more modern than the MiG-21. But the F-5 is a very nice A/C that will bring you a lot of good hour in it's company. And one thing that for me set it apart from the M2K (and other modules for that matter) is that there really is a believable sensation of flying when strapped up inside. Just flying around is good fun.

[M1Combat]

Yeah... Mirage for sure. The campaign and training mission are quite good. Good enough that I'd say they make learning the Mirage just as easy as the F5.

[dundun92]

I don't have the F-5, but I just got the Mirage a day after the sale began and I love it! It's not very difficult to learn it's weapons systems (I could do multiplayer the day after getting it), and it performs nicely in dogfights. Aiming the gun isn't the easiest, (I still have some trouble) but you'll get the hang of it eventually. The in-game tutorial was very helpful, and i also used Chuck's guide. Personally, I actually like having to click on cockpit buttons, instead of fumbling with my HOTAS like on FC3. My HOTAS is actually less occupied here than in FC3.

[Slazi]

Both are great. F5 is BST, which is basically ED now. The M2000 seems to be of very high quality, too.

 

If you don't have the luxury of buying all (in this case, both), get the one which you are most interested to fly.

[Idle_Wild]

Get the M2000C.

 

 

It's more complex but is a much more capable aircraft.

 

 

If you buy the F5 you will spend your time flying places slowly and getting shot down, it has a useless radar.

 

 

It is also useless for A2G.

[Midnightzulu]

Get the M2000C.

 

 

It's more complex but is a much more capable aircraft.

 

 

If you buy the F5 you will spend your time flying places slowly and getting shot down, it has a useless radar.

 

 

It is also useless for A2G.

 

F-5E radar is quite useful in ACM modes which is where you will find yourself in any aerial engagement since there is no iff and all bogies need to be visually id’d.

 

Bomb dropping was done visually up until the early to mid 90s. I’m not sure, but imagine one or two fighter pilots actually figured out how to hit a target without the help of CCIP. :smilewink:

 

Sure, the F-5 is not competitive against modern fighters, nor is it very survivabable on the modern battlefield. It is, however, a great match against the MiG21, will give a MiG23 a run for its money, and it is very rewarding to be able to effectively employ A/G ordinance manually.

 

If you think you might like a nice, analogue western aircraft, the F-5 is outstanding. It should also make a great primer for the upcoming F-4E.

[Slick Fork]

I have both, and love both.

 

The Mirage is more versatile, and more capable as others have all mentioned.

 

The F-5 is a blast to fly and will make you a better pilot. No fly by wire or autopilot means you HAVE to learn trim. Energy management can be a pain in it. 3rd gen technology for everything from Nav to bombing means you have to learn old school methods which will assist you in modern fighters, rather than relying on technology to squeak through.

[FlankerMan]

Thank you very much for all your replies and advice. I think I'll get the Mirage 2000C, as I can't afford both right now, and I prefer more modern, fourth-generation aircraft. I may get the F-5E-3 Tiger II sometime in the future, but right now I think the M-2000 sounds better than the F-5.

[Slazi]

If you buy the F5 you will spend your time flying places slowly and getting shot down, it has a useless radar.

 

Great reasons not to buy any WW2 planes, or Vietnam era planes or helicoptors...

[RampantCoyote]

Looks like you've made your decision, and it's not a bad one, especially if you are looking at a more modern, capable fighter. (But hey, the half-price sale is still going on, so now's your chance to grab more modules...)

 

From a learning perspective... it probably won't matter much to you, but the F-5 is the close cousin of the T-38, which the U.S. military still uses as the jet trainer for pilots. The F-5 is fun to fly, and even to fight in, but yeah... you probably wouldn't want to face an opponent flying anything more capable than an older-model MiG-21.

 

I just like it 'cuz sometimes it's more fun to fly with "steam gauges."

[DaveRindner]

I got M2KC about a week ago. I also have F-5E maybe for 1/2 year. I like Mirage a lot, but I love F-5E. I say get both, but get F-5E first, learn how to fly this figher in WVR first, and air-ground using relatively simple air-ground procedures and tactics. F-5E , IMHO, is the most enjoyable of DCS high fidelity modules.

Once you have licked F-5E, transition to Mirage. The avionics are sophisticated, and I am trying to learn them. To manage avionics , sensors, and weapons in Mirage, while learning how to fly and nav, is too much at same time.

Mirage feels stiff in flight, and that is due to simulated FBW FCS. It is extremely precise. maybe too precise. Start-up and INS nav systems are most demanding to use, if you don't want to cheat with marker on kneepad, of F10 view.

Unfortunately , in my case, Mirage manual start-up is crash prone during INS spin-up.

Mirage is fast down low, and climbs crazy, when its clean. In Normandy map with standard day weather (68 deg F) QNH of 29.90, with clean Mirage and 1/2 internal fuel only. At 100 feet AGL, at 70% power, thr aircraft books at 620 knots IAS or faster. Almost speed of sound.

 

DCS, sadly, does not model, or appears not to model, buffeting and turbulence during NOE flight. F-5E , and Mirage both are smooth and stable. Doing 500-550 knots IAS at 100 feet AGL, should buffet and shake aircraft. But I don't see this in any DCS module, and I never ever ever use Game options.

I do have an issue with Mirage night time cockpit . Way too dark, IMHO. F-5E cockpit is just right at night. A little detail are mirrors. F-5E, has the best rendered mirrors that don't impact performance. The texture resolution is same as world. In other modules, mirror have this blurry, poorly anti-aliased look, that is irritating.

Current DCS has a bug-feature that does not occlude beacon lights, causing very irritating epileptic seizure strobing inside cockpit. This is DCS wide issue. In F-5E it is weak. But in Mirage anti-collision beacon is bright and irritating, especially at night.

[Home Fries]

I normally recommend the Mirage for people transitioning to full DCS modules. It's fly-by-wire, so it's a bit simpler to fly while you're wrapping your head around the combat systems. The systems themselves aren't that complicated; the most complicated thing is the INS, and you can get by with waypoint navigation and learn the rest of the stuff at your own pace. Most of the radar controls (except for range and elevation, then bars and azimuth when you get more comfortable) are set and forget. The cold start is logical and flows right to left. The autopilot is both intuitive and powerful, so you can set yourself up for cruise while you play with systems. The air to ground bombing is very simple (CCIP for snakeyes, CCRP for freefall) and makes sense. Finally, the approach mode is good for learning to land a delta wing aircraft, after which landing other fixed wing aircraft becomes much easier.

 

The only downside is that the cockpit is in French, but really it's not that bad.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Home Fries

[Balzarog]

I have both, and I love the F5 more. I actually find fly-by-wire boring. I have the BCM campaign for the F-5, and it teaches everything from the employment of the airplane in dogfights to navigation. There is a reason that the the F5 is used as the aggressor in real life. It's a fantastic little airplane.

[cmorris975]

I have both but am into the F-5 more for some reason. I'm guessing it's because I'm still pretty new to DCS and the F-5 is an understandable plane to fly, if still quite complex compared to the virtual flying I am used to (War Thunder, Strike Fighters 2, Il-2 Sturmovik w/ simple engine management). I do wish the F-5 had capacity for more A to A missles and a CCIP would be nice.

 

Something about the F-5 though - it just makes me want to fly it even though it may not be as capable in some ways when compared to the Mirage 2000C.

[Kev2go]

Well, I don't have and can't afford the Hornet, and I do prefer more advanced aircraft. I'm sure the F-5E-3 Tiger II is a great 3rd-Generation dogfighter, and I'll probably get it sometime (maybe this Christmas), but I think right now I'll get the Mirage 2000C.

 

then dont buy either and save up for the Hornet ;)

[razorseal]

I was in a similar dilemma, but with Harrier and F5... I've always thought the F5 as an awesome plane which closed the gap between modern jets and cold era jets...

 

It's a fun plane to fly, but if you go multiplayer, you're going to get hurt fast... Just can't keep up with the better jets. I knock F5s out of the sky in the F18 pretty often before they even know it.

 

That being said, F5 is the where the F17 was born from which was meant to compete with the F16... But due to cost air force went with F16 (single engine etc). In turn, F18 was created for the navy which wanted a dual engine setup from the F17. So you can say F5 is the granddad of F18 if you like history.

 

I ended up getting both the harrier and the F5. I'm not flying it much though. Prefer the harrier... Depending on what you want to do, it's going to make a difference. if you do mp alot, get the Mirage... if u wanna do SP and fly campaigns etc, F5 is alot of fun

[Count von Altibar]

I couldn't have put it better than Schurem said. I have flown the F5 in DCS basically since it arrived on the scene and it's still by far my most 'go to' aircraft. It's an iconic aircraft that has a very interesting story and has served in more nations air forces than you can shake a stick at. From a practical point of view it flies beautifully with straightforward systems placing all the emphasis on you as the pilot to use your skill to deliver munitions etc.

 

PS I was tempted to get the Mirage 2000 also, I understand your dilemma...

[Kev2go]

That's true, but you'll have a direct impact with What a full clickable module Means. And you could fall in love with dcs and understand with no doubt why it's better than any other game so called "simulator".

 

 

 

 

That's also something to think about. We have f/a-18, we'll have f-14 in a while and we'll have f-16c and f-15 stike Eagle in the future, not to mention av-8b that's not a fighter but is 4th gen. Maybe it's better to wait and buy now something different, since in the future you'll have few chances to fly a Mirage (unless you are from France or you like that plane for a personal reason)

 

 

You cant compare as f14 may as well be the blast from the past. Apart from larger radar f18 is by far the more modern and more multirole plane

 

F14 will be for those with a strong nostalgia for top gun or prefer air superiority/ interception, but still quite an old plane compared to the vastly modernized hornet represented in dcs as many avjonics are basically 70s tech.

 

And I said it's only comparable to m2000 now. After ea its be far more capable and have a longer list of missions.

 

 

It's not worth bringing up to f15e or f16 either as those aren't actively being developed. Rambam postponed the f15 project until ag radar is ready. And ed went start anything f16 related until Hornet is fully complete and out of ea

 

Your going to be waiting quite some time if you wait it out for those platforms specifically.

 

F18 is s no brainer purchase imo even if carrier ops aren't at the top of your wish list because of being a 4th generation modern 21st century multirole platform.

[WildBillKelsoe]

F-5E most definitely.