An F/A-18 Pilot’s thoughts on the DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

[FightsOn]

Hi all!

 

Just wanted to throw this in here, as some feedback on the DCS Hornet!

 

To put this post together, I started the DCS: F/A-18C on the ramp, engines off, with a loadout that any fleet aviator is extremely familiar with; an AIM-9M on the wingtip, an IMER with 6 Mk76 practice bombs, and a full belt of 20mm in the nose. Today’s mission will be to start the airplane, drop the bombs and fire the gun from an administrative pattern on a target of opportunity. After that, we will climb to altitude and do some 1v0 maneuvering simulating BFM, then proceed back to the field, land, and shut the airplane down. Along the way I’ll take note of anything that is different than the real aircraft, as well as things that are exceptionally well done in the sim. Here we go!

 

Walking up to the jet the first impression is that the modeling is superb! The look and stance of the Hornet is captured perfectly, and I have nothing to possibly offer in the way of improvements. The skins are weathered the way that our aircraft normally are; beaten up by the salt water environment of the boat, and the geometry of the cockpit and external model are spot on.

 

Jumping in the cockpit, the switches and layout looks spot on for a late Lot 20 F/A-18C. I won’t bore anybody with the full narrative of the flight, but here are the things I noticed going through the flight.

 

Pre-Start:

1. APU Sound is fantastic, as are the rest of the sounds throughout the product. One of the first F/A-18 sims I’ve flown that captures the auditory experience of flying the Hornet.

2. Yellow FLAPS caution light should be illuminated prior to engine start.

 

Ground Ops:

1. After the first engine starts, and the generator comes online the TEF’s are completely X’d out. Normally the TEF’s are not completely X’d out in the real jet, as they are extremely redundant. Most the time it’s a LEF, Rudder, Aileron or combination thereof that are X’d out. In addition, the control surfaces that are X’d out across all available channels still respond to stick input. That’s only accurate for the horizontal stabs, which have a mechanical backup. All other surfaces should be unresponsive if totally X’d out. In the case of the ailerons, if one is X’d completely, and the other is not, the X’d aileron will remain in it’s pre-start position (down) and the good aileron will fair to an AUTO position (0 degrees). This is why often you get asymmetric ailerons during startup in the Hornet and Super Hornet. Once the pilot does an FCS Reset, both ailerons will snap to AUTO and then deploy symmetrically to match flap switch position.

2. The ailerons should lag behind the flaps during both extension and retraction. They move roughly half the speed of the TEF’s. Currently they deploy at the same speed as the TEF’s which is inaccurate. In addition, rudder toe-in occurs too quickly. It should be a smoother, slower movement.

3. During control wipeout, the flaps in AUTO should operate differentially to assist the ailerons in rolling the aircraft.

4. Real world the FCS IBIT takes 42 seconds. Currently 15 seconds is modeled. The surface movements that are modelled are accurate, but there is generally more time between movements of individual surfaces, and there is more testing of the stabs and ailerons.

5. FCS Exerciser is currently modelled identically to the FCS IBIT. They are different though. The exerciser should run through flight controls through 20% of their range of motion for 10 cycles in 20 seconds, then stop.

6. FCS IBIT currently will run with NWS engaged. In the real jet, if NWS is on, and an IBIT is initiated the display will flash RESTRT and will not run the BIT. Disengaging NWS will fix the issue. Post FCS IBIT there are A LOT of BLINS. Real jet typically has none.

7. The stabs move to 12 degrees too quickly when TO Trim is pressed. Against, slower and smoother.

8. Up aileron travel is incorrectly reduced when the flaps are set to HALF or FULL. The ailerons retain their full range of motion even when the flaps are extended and the ailerons droop to match.

9. FCS Emergency cooling scoop does not extend when the switch is set to AV COOL EMERG. The round scoop on the right side of the fuselage should extend. It cannot be retracted from the cockpit.

10. Windshield Anti-Ice / Anti-Rain should produce a loud rushing air sound when turned on.

11. When the wings are unlocked the ailerons should rapidly snap to the AUTO position. Currently they move to AUTO, but too slowly. When the wings are locked, the transition from AUTO to HALF/FULL occurs slowly.

12. Fuel BIT does not work. Should illuminate the FUEL LO caution within 13 seconds.

13. Turning the OBOGS flow knob off induces hypoxia on the ground. Inaccurate, as many of us don’t wear our masks anyway while taxiing. In any case, the OBOGS master switch also needs to be added to the logic.

14. Placing the INS to STBY should place the HUD into STBY mode where it uses Standby Attitude Gyro information and removes the velocity vector. In addition the INS ATT caution is displayed, and X’s should appear in Channels 1 and 3 on the PROC row. This should also occur whenever the QUAL is greater than 5.0 during INS alignment, or if the INS is off.

15. Ejection Seat Arming Handle should makes a rather loud “SNICK” when it is armed.

16. ADV – on the DDI should go away if there are no advisories displayed.

17. Good power response during taxi. Accurately portrays how difficult it is to taxi the jet when the throttles are at IDLE in turns. Turns should be made at IDLE to avoid blowing over people and equipment. 75% N2 maximum on the ground except for cross bleed starts.

 

Flight Characteristics

1. Takeoff modeling – Good

2. Bombing / Strafing – Good. As noted, in the real jet CCIP with a designation reverts to AUTO symbology. CCIP is only available without a designation. Is there a way to load the gun without any tracers? They are distracting.

3. Air to Air Flight – Seems in the ballpark.

4. Speaking of trim. The jet has a readout in the HUD roughly where NWS is that displays what the target AOA is when the trim hat is moved. After a few seconds of releasing the trim, the displayed value goes away. This makes it very easy to trim to 8.1 degrees AOA during configuration.

5. In PA CAS with flaps HALF / FULL the jet becomes too ‘twitchy’ in pitch. The real jet does a fairly decent job of maintaining ON SPEED once trimmed. The DCS model is still a little too sensitive WRT Alpha excursions in response to stick movement.

6. NWS LO is too sensitive during TO and LDG rollout. The real NWS LO is yaw damped by the FCC to prevent pilot induced oscillation during the takeoff and landing roll. The feeling of NWS during taxi both LO and HI is excellent in the model.

7. Good representation of AOA flying behind the ship. Power response is good and accurately models what it’s like to land aboard the ship.

 

Weapons System:

1. For some reason, pilot selectable drag in DCS does not work with Mk82 Snakeyes.

 

Shutdown:

1. Turning INS off during shutdown should put the HUD into STBY mode, and an INS ATT caution and Ch 1 and 3 FCS X’s in PROC as discussed above.

2. FCS shouldn’t X out all channels of the TEF during generator power transients.

3. Amber FLAPS light should illuminate after shutdown.

4. 5 minute battery timer doesn’t seem to be modeled. This will shut the battery off automatically after 5 minutes with no generator power. Does not work on the Utility Battery (Aft Position)

5. Controls should start to droop after a significant amount of time without hydraulic power.

 

Carrier Operations:

1. Catapult fires without a pilot salute or command. Not enough time to accurately conduct takeoff checks.

2. Catapult flyaway is too ‘twitchy’ in pitch. Jet should smoothly fly away hands off from the carrier deck with only a lateral input required for the Case I/II clearing turn.

3. Difficult to taxi on the carrier deck. Jet seems to stick occasionally to the flight deck.

[Donut]

Wow! Great post and very insightful! Thank you for taking the time to do this. Numbers 4 and 5 under Flight Characteristics are particularly interesting to me as I continue to struggle at times with AOA and Case I landings. Maybe some refinement is in order and will help a bit. The more feedback from real Hornet pilots should drive some changes and updates to the flight model. I feel that the HUD readout of the target trim would help tremendously in trimming the aircraft to the 8.1 AOA.

[ThorHammer]

If I could upvote this post, I would.

[AG-51_Razor]

Great post! Thank you. :thumbup:

[Tripleinside]

Thank you for taking the time Sir.

 

I wish an IRL Mirage 2000-C Pilot would do the same ! Lucky virtual Hornet drivers !!

[Torso]

Awesome feedback. Hopefully the team goes over it with their SME's and can incorporate changes suggested/feedback to improve accuracy.

[IvanK]

[MustangSally]

Great write up, thanks.

[SDsc0rch]

typical fleet hornet pilots know all this?!?

 

 

goddam that's a lot of detail.....

[kunterbunt]

Fantastic job. Thanks for taking the time.

[SCU]

Thanks for your input sir. I hope ED takes a look at these and consult their SME's & their sources and manuals to implement them. Quality info, thank you again! :thumbup:

[mjolner]

 

 

4. Speaking of trim. The jet has a readout in the HUD roughly where NWS is that displays what the target AOA is when the trim hat is moved. After a few seconds of releasing the trim, the displayed value goes away. This makes it very easy to trim to 8.1 degrees AOA during configuration.

 

Makes sense that the FCS could calculate the exact trim position reducing pilot workload at a critical time.

[IvanK]

The trim readout is a "relatively" new Software feature. Not sure if its timeline wise accurate for the software loads as depicted in the Sim. We need info as to exactly when this feature became operational on the C.

 

 

It went Operational on the E/F model with Software MC OFP H3E around 2008 ish

Edited July 4, 2018 by IvanK

[Bottle-RUM]

Thanks i really love to read some insights from real pilot’s on DCS modules.

 

16. ADV – on the DDI should go away if there are no advisories displayed.

 

Thank you for this, i was scrolling through bit pages to see why this would still lit up on the DDI. And should you take off from carrier with anti skid on also shown as ADV?

Edited July 4, 2018 by Bottle-RUM

[TechRoss]

Great post. Thanks for putting the time in.

 

I think from what I have read the whole AOA on landing and dropping flaps etc is being worked on by EA. The trim display on the HUD would so help with this. My jet must look like a porpoise when I am landing till I get a hold of the trim and throttle.

 

So you are happy with the throttle response?

Others have commented they feel it is a little slow, almost like the jet has to much drag.

[Manuel_108]

That’s a neat post! Really really hope it won’t get deleted.

[Decibel dB]

5. In PA CAS with flaps HALF / FULL the jet becomes too ‘twitchy’ in pitch. The real jet does a fairly decent job of maintaining ON SPEED once trimmed. The DCS model is still a little too sensitive WRT Alpha excursions in response to stick movement.

I wish they don't fix that, if they do I'll have no more excuse for my bad flying:music_whistling:

Edited July 4, 2018 by Decibel dB

[Raz_Specter]

Excellent detail and great feedback for the devs to take into consideration

+1

[JOJOZ]

Please, moderator must stick this thread and go back to ED for consideration!!

Don't miss out on such important informations!

It's with such feedback from real Hornet pilots that we will have the most realistic F/A-18-C simulation possible!

Edited July 4, 2018 by JOJOZ

[SCU]

7. Good representation of AOA flying behind the ship. Power response is good and accurately models what it’s like to land aboard the ship.

Well, there is a fellow Hornet pilot of yours, Lex Talionis, who mentioned that the power is too weak in approach. But he wasn't talking about the response times, however, he was talking about how he needed to go into AB sometimes to stay on speed. I'm not sure if you're talking about response times or raw power (or too much drag on the sim's jet).

[yycvor]

Great post...

 

I hope ED can run with this and implement/tweak/fix your observations for a true authentic experience. The community needs more guys like you to share your observations and expertise.

[Asgar]

Thank you for sharing your experience with the module and how it compares to the real deal. I think only with imput from people like you, ED can create the best possible representation of the Bug.

[HawkDCS]

Wow thanks for the post!

[Manuel_108]

Thank you for sharing your experience with the module and how it compares to the real deal. I think only with imput from people like you, ED can create the best possible representation of the Bug.

 

Indeed. Especially because they can cross check everything with their own subject matter experts.

[luft]

Thanks for taking all that time to make this thread. I hope the devs take in mind these opinions, or even ask for collaboration from these valuable users for the community.

 

My best regards

 

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