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Wags CASE III Video


RED
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FB Video

 

Really cool that Wags and the ED keep doing the real procedures. Looking forward to the update tomorrow and the ATC system update.

 

For new pilots this will be a difficult one. Flying

a timed TACAN Holding with 1/2 standard rated turns,

an radial to arc and arc to radial intercept,

as well as arcing the TACAN station (father) and flying an ICLS approach is not easy.

 

WAGS ignored the whole arcing thing and just flew 120°.

 

It looked like 360 was BRC in the the mission and not FB.


Edited by RED

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I used to read a ton on it from my passed FSX orgot a lot, but all i remember was... and seems to be much complicated than i remembered...

 

 

All i remembered was:

 

 

1- Marshal Altitude : Clouds top level + 1,000 feet, minimum marshal altitude 6,000 ft, unless i'm mistaken (ie: 8,000 ft + 1,000 ft)

 

2- Marshal DME : 15 nm behind the carrier + 1 nm per each 1,000 ft. ie: 24 miles)

 

3- At 24 nm, commencing descent, 240-250 KIAS with a rate of descent of -4,000 FPM.

 

4- At Platform (5,000 ft) slowing down descent to -2,000 FPM.

 

5- Level-up at 1,200 ft.

 

6- Dirty-up at 9-10 nm, slowing down to 170-190 KIAS.

 

7- Needles call at 3-5 nm, slowing down to on-speed (Yellow/Orange donuts on AoA indexer)

 

8- Gradualy start to Intercept glideslope around 3 nm.

 

9- Until trap, AoA Indexer check, Line-Up check, Glideslope check as usual.

 

 

I'll have to watch Wags video quite a few times. :)


Edited by Doum76
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Is there a chart for that procedure? I cannot find it in CV manual. Or maybe CV-1 chart is to be used with assumed offsets?

 

It just says "The primary TACAN marshal fix is the 180 degrees radial relative to the expected final bearing at a distance of 1 mile for every 1,000 feet of altitude plus 15 miles (angels +15). The holding pattern is a left-hand, 6-minute racetrack pattern. The inbound leg shall pass over the holding fix. In no case will the base altitude be lower than 6,000 feet."

 

-Why are Wags flying it 30 degrees offset?

 

-If marshal fix is at a distance of 1 mile for every 1,000 feet of altitude plus 15 miles, does that mean every aircraft at different altitude has different holding fix?

 

-I assume aircraft is to exit holding via holding fix at "expected approach time"? What tolerance is for time in +-seconds?

 

-How many aircraft can fly approach at the same time?

 

-Where is point of formation break for multiple aircraft flight?

 

-What is go around procedure?

 

I don't think it's hard to fly it. It can already be done without ICLS in non-precision manner. Just descend to mda without vertical guidance. It's not like you will hit a tree or hill. :)

 

Marshal is described in the CV NATOPS

Why Offset -> Wags explains why ->safety +you can have multiple marshal areas and can place the marshal in the direction the planes are actually coming from.

E.g. from the front: (also see go around)

ldPGuIx.png

 

different fix yes

 

how many -> 1 min interval

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For those wishing to master the IFR flight I recommend http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a3/publication/afman11-217v3/afman11-217v3.pdf.

 

Cheers

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@RED That doesn't look like approach Wags have flown. I already read CV NATOPS relevant procedures. That's CV-2 approach chart.

 

@oldpop: Tnx. According to the video, ATC breaks formation and makes vertical separation before entering holding pattern, and traffic is expected to descend 1000ft on outbund leg.

 

@Panthir: Tnx. I checked it, but cannot find anything relevant to carrier landing procedures there.

 

Dear Nicola, you can prepare precision TACAN_ILS (descent rates, pitch changes, lead to enter ARC, radial lead to enter a radial etc) let-down for different starting altitudes :-)

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There is a good explanation of RL CASE III ops here:

 

 

The DCS footage is just background footage for the 'talking head' explanation and RL coms audio.


Edited by Ramsay
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  • ED Team
Marshal is described in the CV NATOPS

Why Offset -> Wags explains why ->safety +you can have multiple marshal areas and can place the marshal in the direction the planes are actually coming from.

E.g. from the front: (also see go around)

 

different fix yes

 

how many -> 1 min interval

 

At least in 2005, 15-30 degree offset from final bearing was standard (not sure about today). This was/is done to not conflict with aircraft in an emergency/direct approach along the final bearing. Most of the diagrams out there are in reference to the emergency approach pattern.

 

FYI:

 

- the diagram was created by a Hornet pilot to help me learn the pattern.

- range to DME is a factor of altitude + 15.

- my arc turn was embarrassingly bad.

 

Have fun with this tomorrow!

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  • ED Team

Mostly correct except calculation for DME range of marshal. Should be altitude + 15.

 

I used to read a ton on it from my passed FSX orgot a lot, but all i remember was... and seems to be much complicated than i remembered...

 

 

All i remembered was:

 

 

1- Marshal Altitude : Clouds top level + 1,000 feet, minimum marshal altitude 6,000 ft, unless i'm mistaken (ie: 8,000 ft + 1,000 ft)

 

2- Marshal DME : 15 nm behind the carrier + 1 nm per each 1,000 ft. ie: 24 miles)

 

3- At 24 nm, commencing descent, 240-250 KIAS with a rate of descent of -4,000 FPM.

 

4- At Platform (5,000 ft) slowing down descent to -2,000 FPM.

 

5- Level-up at 1,200 ft.

 

6- Dirty-up at 9-10 nm, slowing down to 170-190 KIAS.

 

7- Needles call at 3-5 nm, slowing down to on-speed (Yellow/Orange donuts on AoA indexer)

 

8- Gradualy start to Intercept glideslope around 3 nm.

 

9- Until trap, AoA Indexer check, Line-Up check, Glideslope check as usual.

 

 

I'll have to watch Wags video quite a few times. :)

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Finally we can watch this in FHD (and read stuff), thanks for uploading dealwithit.png

 

 

And IMHO it's not OT to point out video quality issues on social media and having a valid concern that videos appear there a day earlier for whatever reason there is behind doing so except for that it takes time to do so that you might not have had. Thanks for listening twilightsmile.png

 

And not to be misunderstood, I absolutely appreciate your work put in those videos, they're brilliant, actually they're so good the Hornet is the first module that I didn't even need to take on the tutorial missions at all, didn't even touch them yet, all I can be is grateful salute.png

 

My God.. and I'm still struggling to get Case 1 right...

 

Me too, that's why I end up not doing it at all. Main problem is the break. If I leave that out completely and come in at 180° BRC 1.2nm abeam, it's actually not that bad pinkiepieexcited.png

 

But there doesn't seem to be any kind of rule on how to do the break so that you just come out where you want and need to at all. Not even things like "350kts, 3.5G" are mentioned in the NATOPS at all, but still these don't work out for me rdlaugh.png

 

But at least I hardly even bolter and when I do so, I totally know why I did (mostly because I tried something different) dealwithit.png

 

Plus, now that actually gets OT, I don't even know how to make other ships stay in formation at 1.1nm abeam for reference. I'm absolutely not happy with placing them each on their own complete route just to have them mess it up completely when reaching their first WP rainbowdashwink.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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I think "Doum76" mentioned in his post 170 ~ 190 kts between "dirty up" (10nm or as directed) to around 6 ~ 5 nm (confirming needles) then transition to on-speed starts. Roughly at around 3nm the glideslope needle should be around center.

 

Also, as far as I know the sections stay together generally until they reach the higher marshal fix assigned to one of them. The a/c assigned to that fix starts a hold pattern there. The other a/c continues down along the marshal radial to their hold fix (1000ft lower/ 1nm closer to mother). Well... don't quote me on that ;)

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I think "Doum76" mentioned in his post 170 ~ 190 kts between "dirty up" (10nm or as directed) to around 6 ~ 5 nm (confirming needles) then transition to on-speed starts. Roughly at around 3nm the glideslope needle should be around center.

 

Also, as far as I know the sections stay together generally until they reach the higher marshal fix assigned to one of them. The a/c assigned to that fix starts a hold pattern there. The other a/c continues down along the marshal radial to their hold fix (1000ft lower/ 1nm closer to mother). Well... don't quote me on that ;)

 

 

 

 

Well they might had been some wrong informations when i did it a while ago, so some stuff on my post might be wrong, i got this from someone i flew with back then that knew SuperHornets pilot, but again i might had miss interpret stuff :)

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Is there a turn rate indicator visible in the HUD in the hornet so we can conduct standard rate turns in the hold?

 

The turn rate indicator below the backup attitude indicator doesn't seem to work. bug i presume?

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This is a nice video too

 

Case 3 Recovery


Edited by muehlema

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