F-5N module upgrade

[Kev2go]

Something that would be interesting to see would seeing as a Standalone Module upgrade. SOld as a separate module, but upgradeable in the sense, it would be sold for discount to those who own the F5E. ( or a discount for a combined purchase of Both)

 

 

 

F5N are ex- swiss F5E's acquired by the US navy and USMC for aggressor training to supplement and replace older F5E's. This acquisition program was completed in 2008 after 6 years acquiring 44 Swiss F5's. Swiss were essentially the same thing as the f5e3 but with digital radio set.

 

 

US navy had placed a contract by northrop grumman to further modernized the some of the F5N's

 

On behalf of the Navy and USMC 24 f5n were upgraded with a Multi function display in the place of the Old an/apq 159 Radar Display. Navigation wise , it was fitted Ln260 Inertial Navigation system, embedded GPS and a Moving map display accessible via the MFD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by SkateZilla
Removed Manual Links, Rule 1.16

[FSKRipper]

My thought: A lot of work to simulate the Swiss Air Force or US agressor flights.

[Nero.ger]

if ED would not block usermade addons, we could do it ourselfs.....

[joey45]

Then make your own F-5N module...

[dimitrischal]

Well this is the best F5 upgrade proposal ever put on the table. Well articulated and backed by data. I ‘d buy it in an instant but I don’t see it happening.

It also fails to appeal to the core of dcs fans by not upgrading the boomstick capabilities hence the market appeal would be pretty low...

[Jenrick]

With the F-18 and F-14 in the works, I can totally see a market for a "Top Gun" setup. Add in Mirimar and Fallon, and I think you'd have a hell of run on sales.

[Kev2go]

My thought: A lot of work to simulate the Swiss Air Force or US agressor flights.

 

 

You mean just like it was for ED/BST partnership where they Created a US navy based F/A18C lot 20 to simulate-single version of a Service aircraft within a Single Branch of the US Military? :music_whistling:

 

That too was a nation specific plane from a single country., but that didnt stop them from adding foreign skins of Hornet users that were not Using the specific F/A18C Lot 20 series production with same avionic suite ( Swiss air forces Horents essentially have Super Hornet avionics) or older Model Production Hornet LIke the RCAF's CF188s which are essnetialy Liscense built F/A18A which also has different avionics suite to the One in DCS ( whether looking at original or 2000s upgraded one or not)

 

 

What people may be willfully blind too is the fact that the F5E that BST modeled was already specifically based on a US flown aggressor plane, and not around any other nations specific exported F5E planes. ( they even said that if one should look for the USAF F5E3 manual when it was still WIP if you wanted to see what features it had)

 

For eg given that IRan had F5E's had delivered between 1974 and 1976, they wouldn't have had current radios that the US Aggressor F5E3 has or the IP/1310 Radar warning receiver

 

So all BST did was add foreign skins to an otherwise US based aggressor plane to throw a bone to people wanting to fly in other nations that operate any non- upgraded "F5E"

Edited July 29, 2018 by Kev2go

[ST0RM]

While I'd love to see the F-5E upgraded to the N, we cant even get Belsimtek to acknowledge the existing issues with the current module, nor fix them. So any hopes of a future F-5 would have to be a mod or another 3rd party dev.

[ApoNOOB]

Would love (paid) upgrade to existing modules. F-5 is prime candidate, MiG21 aswell. But as far as we know, this is not a big plan of any dev. (That we currently know of)

 

 

I have seen some people going back and forth with this, and there always were some very good reasons why we don't already have this. (most is about money^^) Saddest thing with all this is, now we know next to certain we will never get a 'more recent' F-5 in DCS. :/

[Kev2go]

Well this is the best F5 upgrade proposal ever put on the table. Well articulated and backed by data. I ‘d buy it in an instant but I don’t see it happening.

It also fails to appeal to the core of dcs fans by not upgrading the boomstick capabilities hence the market appeal would be pretty low...

 

 

interesting conundrum for some.

 

Foreign Legacy F5E upgraded with boomstick ( otherwise same avionics)

 

Or an F5N, no boom stick, but upgraded avionics circa 2000s era environment, offering a Multifuction display, modern INS/ GPS navigation further aided by a moving map , and an upgraded radar which also has an A/G mapping mode. . :noexpression:

 

 

It all depends on what data is/war available. Ultimately we have legacy era F5E3 because BSt was looking for a 3rd generation contender to a Mig21Bis as to not be an oprhan aircraft, and ofc as an additional purpose its nice that it fills simulation purpose as an American aggressor aircraft for dissimilar AC train against various aircraft for Red Flag.

 

 

However they chose to simulate aggressor version of the F5E specifically and not say on another specific nations export F5E with a boomstick or specific export F5E upgraded with Agm65 mavericks, despite such features being desirable because thye didnt have Manuals on aircraft with such features, and thus would have to guess thier operating thier functions. or where said avionc was placed.

 

 

Would love (paid) upgrade to existing modules. F-5 is prime candidate, MiG21 aswell. But as far as we know, this is not a big plan of any dev. (That we currently know of)

 

 

I have seen some people going back and forth with this, and there always were some very good reasons why we don't already have this. (most is about money^^) Saddest thing with all this is, now we know next to certain we will never get a 'more recent' F-5 in DCS. :/

 

IRRC most of the requests were with regards to having a Legacy F5E like we have but upgraded with Mavericks or Aerial refueling.

 

The Reall issue that BST themselves stated had specifically was lack of support data like manuals that covered such aforementioned additional features. Which cant exactly be lumped in the case as those 2 examples since i did find a Site that offers NAtops manual for F5E/N and F. dated 2006, albeit not for free.

 

 

I'd like to order the manual but it seems to be export restrictions for sale outside of the USA.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Kev2go

[Lorenzo.D]

there is the new f5 super tiger of thailand if you are searching for an actual aircraft

 

http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/34335

 

Inviato dal mio SM-J730F utilizzando Tapatalk

[Kev2go]

there is the new f5 super tiger of thailand if you are searching for an actual aircraft

 

http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/34335

 

Inviato dal mio SM-J730F utilizzando Tapatalk

 

?

 

but the F5N is an actual aircraft.....

 

 

what you just linked on the other hand is a a Prtotype version of the F5. , an attempt to further modernize Thai F5 fleet , a Contract that has not yet even been fulfilled.

 

 

GL getting documentation like Operational or FM on plane that has not yet been mass produced or entered service.

[dimitrischal]

I don’t think it’s a conundrum for the main player base. They want only the boomstick...

I don’t know why they went for the era they did, probably they had the right documentation for most of the systems, and honestly it’s a great little plane but it will never appeal to the majority with the current capabilities. With the mig 19 and 23 coming I can only dream of the fights to come for the little tiger!

[Kev2go]

I don’t think it’s a conundrum for the main player base. They want only the boomstick...

I don’t know why they went for the era they did, probably they had the right documentation for most of the systems, and honestly it’s a great little plane but it will never appeal to the majority with the current capabilities. With the mig 19 and 23 coming I can only dream of the fights to come for the little tiger!

 

F5E that BSt developed isnt the worst variation.

 

They could have gone for an earlier one also. F5E1 also had enough documentation to support development, but would would have had an older radar AN/APQ 153 which would have worse range and no offboresight lock capability, not to mention entire lack af a Radar warning receiver whatsover, nor any Flare/Chaff dispensors

 

hence the F5E3 was better option, as it had some better capabilties. I assume They chose it because it was more capable, but still had a Legacy 3rd generation feel for it. Its also the version that the US Aggressor units operated until the 2000s where the NAvy and USMC decided to replace them with Lower hour Swiss F5's as well as modernize them with newer avionics as mentioned in the OP.

 

The F5E3 with its current capabilities is Sufficent enough to Fight the Likes of the Mig21Bis, and other cold war aircraft that are to come in the future like the ones you mention.

 

IF an F5N was added first over an F5E3, people would complain it would feel out of place for COld war scenarios against aircraft like the Mig21bis without any upgrades

Edited July 29, 2018 by Kev2go

[dimitrischal]

I didn’t say it was the worse, they could have gone with the A or B even. It’s actually really well suited for the Cold War stuff although people use it to take on everything lately with great success.

It still is a niche plane regarding the dcs crowd though.

[VZ_342]

I’d buy an add-on for the F-5E—>F-5N.

 

Cold, hard cash on the barrel. I’d think others would too, and faster than I would.

[FSKRipper]

Let's be realistic. BST, now ED, is busy with polishing the F-18, their both helos, creating two new helos and a F-16. This seems to be enough work to put even the F4 to a stop.

 

I wouldn't go so far to compare the F/A-18C with the F-5N. Numbers vary a bit between them… If you add upgraded foreign versions even more

Edited July 30, 2018 by FSKRipper

[Jester986]

I'd love to see an upgraded F-5 and would pay for it, but I think its unrealistic to think it could happen.

[jamie_c]

Just on the F-5E3, the non-nuclear weapons delivery manual makes zero mention of AGM-65, if they could use them in US service it would be in there.

[Fri13]

I just say that ED should made it possible to have a module upgrades, just like they had with the Black Shark 2 to Black Shark, but make it actually workable.

 

Meaning, any studio can release a base module, and then develop a new upgrade/variant/lot/block modules to that for a lower price if they so want.

 

Like buy first a Mig-23M, then you could get a options to buy a ML, MLA or MLD. Each of the upgrade could of course be questionable do they need to be in the order or can you just get any of them? Meaning that full module price + update 1 + update 2 + update 3 if you wanted to get that update 3. Or then go full module price + update 3 to get straight there?

 

It could open up good way for studios to get new income and way to make something that opens way to have later newer/older variants to fly that has acceptable development time for the expected profit. So you would not see F/A-18C to turn out to be a F/A-18F for $20.

[SkateZilla]

if ED would not block usermade addons, we could do it ourselfs.....

 

What user made addons does ED Block?

[dimitrischal]

Also now with the NS430 add on you can get basic gps functions on the F5 as well.

[Schmidtfire]

I would buy an upgraded F-5N. The Tiger has been out for a while, so a lot of players are familiar with using it. This would mean a huge boost in capability mixed with original simplicity of the F-5E.

 

With the introduction of F-5E Tiger II in MAC, it will also be a nice stepping stone for new players seeking out their first clickable module.

 

FM and 3D model are already done. Research, systems coding and some re-modeling of the cockpit needed. Sounds like a reasonable thing for ED/BST to consider as it would probably bring a lot of $$$ versus dev cost. I have no doubt it will be a popular addition to DCS family of aircrafts.

[Kev2go]

Also now with the NS430 add on you can get basic gps functions on the F5 as well.

 

there is more than mere addon of GPS functionality in the F5N ( without metioning the fact it would be a more sohisticated system than NS430 and not a mere 2d popup)

[dimitrischal]

there is more than mere addon of GPS functionality in the F5N ( without metioning the fact it would be a more sohisticated system than NS430 and not a mere 2d popup)

 

I know. But it can still be used as a counter argument. I’d really pay for any love they showed the f5 but I doubt anyone will bother.

I bet my money on expansion of the Cold War ecosystem to bring more attention to the f5 but it appears this is a bit low on EDs list of priorities seeing they bumped the F4 several years in the future and the absence of the much awaited SA2 and assets.