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Lockon Operation Red Flag/Combined Air Exercise


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Watching the TACVIEW track, the ground pounders did very well, but it looked liked the A2A guys were mostly firing AMRAAMs and ETs at each other hoping for a hit after split-s'ing? Bit hard to see the tactics being used.

 

There was one insteresting 7m kill (must have been HOJ shot) where the missile dived on the Red guy from above and ended up hitting him in tail, while the guy who fired it had split-s way before impact. Almost looked like the missile did a split-s before impact.

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Some stats

 

Reviewing the ACMI File i made some stats, maybe someone is interested :D

 

Blue Side :

 

Fighters

 

107 AMRAAMs fired, 2 Kills, effectiveness: 1,86 %

 

25 AIM-7 fired, 1 kill, effectiveness: 4 %

 

2 R-27T fired, 1 kills, effectiveness: 50 %

 

2 R-73 fired, 0 kills, effeciveness: 0

 

SAM-Systems

 

19 HAWKs fired, 1 kill ( Kh-58 ), effectivenss: 5,26 %

 

20 Patriots fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

2 Rolands fired, 1 kill ( Su-25T ), effectiveness: 100 % ( both hit )

 

Red Side

 

Fighters

 

23 R-77 fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

21 R-27 ET fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

1 R-27 R fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

24 R-27 ER fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

5 R-27 EM fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

6 R-73 fired, 1 kill, effectiveness: 16,66 %

 

SAM-Systems

 

6 SA-11 ( BUK ) fired, 1 kill ( Kh-58 ), effectiveness: 16,66 %

 

13 SA-10 ( S-300 ) fired, 1 kill ( Aim-7 ), effectiveness: 7,69 %

 

4 SA-15 ( TOR ) fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

4 SA-8 ( Albatros ) fired, 0 kills, effectiveness: 0 %

 

Notes :

 

One Aim-7 kill is made after the missile made a full inverted immelmann and hit the RedForce fighter on 6 o`clock.

 

One SA-10 SAM shot down a Aim-7.

 

I dont give full guarantee for the above stats ;)

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@ Groove:

 

One event is not reflected in your stats:

At 19:44:09 Blue JaBoG32_Callisto (MiG-29A) kills Red 159th_Fusion (Su-33) with an R-27T.

He get´s hit himself by an R-73 from Fusion but loses only HUD and some other secondary systems and returns safely all the way back home.

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It's to be mentioned that TacView or better LUA-export isn't perfect. Watching TacView-files after training sessions or squad-matches we often discover little events which are different on the clients files. That may be the reason for leaving out this kill.

 

Maybe the point when writing the file beginns to cause lag by stressing the system is also the point when leaving out events. Has anyone an idea if this depends on client system performance or connection settings (data transfer ammount)??

 

And another point: For "Misssion 2" it might be a good idea to create a new thread as this one is already very huge. If ED don't wan't us to use their forums for planing issues please let us know. We'll switch to another forum then!

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How about giving this baby an official name?

What do you think about "LockOn Community Exercise Red Flag" as a working title?

I would then suggest to use the shortcut "LOCERF" for this event series.

Your thoughts?

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How about giving this baby an official name?

What do you think about "LockOn Community Exercise Red Flag" as a working title?

I would then suggest to use the shortcut "LOCERF" for this event series.

Your thoughts?

 

that's a good idea, it probably will be up to 159th_Fudd since he created the sucessfully red flag squadmatch.

 

I am very glad it will contiune.

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I'm the RedFor chap hit by that AIM 7.:cry:

 

To the chap that fired it (R_V_E AS): nice shot! I got very little warning of it comming and it seemed to come from behind which didn't make sense at the time. Having watched the TAC file I see now what happend. I've not flown in such an intense enviroment before and it was so easy to loose SA with so many Jamming contacts etc. I have total respect for you guys:thumbup:

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  • ED Team
@ Groove:

 

One event is not reflected in your stats:

At 19:44:09 Blue JaBoG32_Callisto (MiG-29A) kills Red 159th_Fusion (Su-33) with an R-27T.

He get´s hit himself by an R-73 from Fusion but loses only HUD and some other secondary systems and returns safely all the way back home.

 

Missed that one.

 

I updated the stats, thx !

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@ Groove:

 

One event is not reflected in your stats:

At 19:44:09 Blue JaBoG32_Callisto (MiG-29A) kills Red 159th_Fusion (Su-33) with an R-27T.

He get´s hit himself by an R-73 from Fusion but loses only HUD and some other secondary systems and returns safely all the way back home.

 

I'll get him good and proper next time :megalol:.

 

Nah, was a good kill, I had a muppet attack as I was closing on Calli and couldn't get him locked up on radar, switched to vert-scan just in time to get an R73 away, at which point I noticed the in-coming 27T, too late to do anything about it. *D'oh!*

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Yeah guys, that was unbelievable.

 

No air-quake there, very well done.

 

For those who didnt make it, or was absent: you missed out on one of the coolest online community events ever undertaken!

 

OMG this was sooooo great much fun.

.

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I think if you denied rearm/refuel period, people would seek to make the best of what ordnance they have ... you might see much closer, riskier shots and F/A-poles rather than the 15nm shoot-and-split to pick up more sticks matches.

It would force more agressive and more decisive tactics on the part of fighters since they'd be pressed to provide the A2G machines with their 10 minute window on time.

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Rgr that GG! Rearm and refuel should be limited in any way. Maybe a landing aircraft has to remain on the ground at least 15min or something. This could be checked out in TacView afterwards. Saying there's no refuel/repair at all would make mission duration a bit shorter of course! :)

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RedFor was closer to their objectives.

 

Just remember that RedFor's objectives were under the protection of two Patriots and two Hawks. BlueFor's primary objective could be reached without fear of enemy SAMs. It was part of the planning to give RedFor a disadvantage that was to be overcome by superior SEAD capability. It just didn't turn out that way.

 

Other than that, I agree. Unlimited rearm/refuel does not restrict the employment of any tactics. If GG wants to show us how it's done, next time he can choose to participate.

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There was one insteresting 7m kill (must have been HOJ shot) where the missile dived on the Red guy from above and ended up hitting him in tail, while the guy who fired it had split-s way before impact. Almost looked like the missile did a split-s before impact.

For anyone who missed this,

. You cant make out the labels, but you can get the idea.

HOJ or not, this is one odd kill.

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LOL I wish I could managed to get those kinds of kills myself. One in a million shot. :D

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  • ED Team

The goal of the event should be more kills and not AAM spamming and running. I dont want to flame but when you look how many missiles were in the air and how many of them hit targets...

 

Btw, Brewber and me sat 2.5 hours of the whole mission on Tarmacs, now we are some proffessional and patient Pilots ! :D

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The limitation would prevent a 4hours mission. I don't want to agree with the point that tactics get crappy when weapon amount is open. Just to make myself clear. If everyone is O.K. with that much time of flight everything is O.K. for me.

 

I'm really interested what different kind of missions the different squads will come along with. Is there any decission made about when and who (I mean the missions designed by the squads)? We could make kind of a timetable. i.e. 1 Mission each month, 1st month a redfor-squad does the mission, 2nd month a bluefor-squad has to make it and so on...

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The goal of the event should be more kills and not AAM spamming and running.

 

I believe the goal would be to improve our abilities to work with other squadron's to achieve a goal. Fighters on both sides showed a lack of planning and strategy that will likely be improved upon in future exercises. But remember, better planning and strategy may not result in more kills because defense is a part of it as well.

 

 

Btw, Brewber and me sat 2.5 hours of the whole mission on Tarmacs, now we are some proffessional and patient Pilots ! :D

 

I salute your patience. I just wish we could have sent you to the engagement area sooner.

 

Rugg, I'm not complaining about the Pats and Hawks. We knew that we were facing an initial disadvantage. I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation from RedFor's perspective.

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Disagree. Our guys did exactly what they said they'd do, and when they were on station you guys weren't able to push farther forward.... I didn't think you were. ;) I never did see you for that duel over at Anapa.:D

 

It took your fighters more than 30min to get to the area. I understand that there were problems with the server in the beginning that delayed flights on both sides but better planning could have helped that. Had we had fighters in the air, our SEAD strike would not have turned back at the beginning of the mission. We would have had plenty of time to get the Pats out early. But as it played out, your SAM coverage kept us from pushing across the channel whether or not your fighters were in the area until the 2:17 mark (or so).

 

My initial response to your post was only to point out that simply saying the Red's objectives were closer is very misleading without describing other aspects of the situation.

 

I was at Anapa, where were you, hippie? :D

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I think if we stay on "everybody stay safe", this missions will get boring pretty fast. But thats my opinion and i will try to participate in everyone of them.

I understand completely that for strike aircraft waiting for an opportunity to proceed to target that it can be pretty boring. Believe me, SEAD flight did a lot of circling and waiting too.

 

Ultimately it comes down to using some of the flyable aircraft in an unrealistic way. Su-25s and A-10s would not be anywhere near the kind of enemy fighters we saw. The US side would have SEAD from F-16s and Russia would have a fast mover SEAD platform as well. We have to compromise to get everyone in the mission. Perhaps having a mission goal for fighters to provide a certain amount of time for their strike aircraft to work could be an answer.

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I rather enjoyed flying with the threat that if I got shot down, that I couldn't respawn. Although it forced us to play a little more conservative with our tactics it was still enjoyable.

 

As for improvements. I think it would be great if one team was clearly defined as being on the offensive while the other is defensive.

 

Another thought would be to spread out the main combat area. In the mission you could draw a strait line from where Red started to the blue side and pretty much all of the objectives were within 20 nm of the line. Most of that was a problem associated with how the land in the combat area was set up, but I think a more inland battle would open up the types of missions available.

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