in development Vulkan API Discussion

[SkateZilla]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:56 PM, YoYo said:

Hi, a little is quiet about it. All in all, the new engine was supposed to be still in 2021, now we are in 2022 and at the end of the 1th quarter and we hear nothing about the new engine for DCS, which is so important for users, especially VR owners. Anything you know?

to Answer the question directly Regarding "Vulcan",
- In the Prime Timeline Vulcan still exists and was re-named Na'Var in 3129 where Vulcan left the Federation of Planets and Remerged with the Romulans after the Dilithium Burn Event.
- In the Kelvin Timeline, Vulcan is the location of the 3rd of the 4 Black Holes remaining caused by the Narada 


As for Vulkan, Developed by Khronos (which is also a re-spelling of Qo'Nos, the Klingon Homeword),( Ironic isn't it?)
Vulkan Integration is a large task, and it's being done side by side with the Multi-core recoding,
Both Tasks as stated by ED have their own teams, 

Building a Graphics engine from scratch is a huge undertaking, even after the base / core of the engine is done, everything assets wise must be converted or rebuilt for the new engine as well. 

You can't really give weekly/monthly/quarterly updates as it's all coding until they are ready to publish screenshots and performance numbers, which requires nearly 100% completion of the task at hand.

Hope this helps.

Edited March 21, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Willie Nelson]

8 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

to Answer the question directly Regarding "Vulcan",
- In the Prime Timeline Vulcan still exists and was re-named Na'Var in 3129 where Vulcan left the Federation of Planets and Remerged with the Romulans after the Dilithium Burn Event.
- In the Kelvin Timeline, Vulcan is the location of the 3rd of the 4 Black Holes remaining caused by the Narada 


As for Vulkan, Developed by Khronos (which is also a re-spelling of Qo'Nos, the Klingon Homeword),( Ironic isn't it?)
Vulkan Integration is a large task, and it's being done side by side with the Multi-core recoding,
Both Tasks as stated by ED have their own teams, 

Building a Graphics engine from scratch is a huge undertaking, even after the base / core of the engine is done, everything assets wise must be converted or rebuilt for the new engine as well. 

You can't really give weekly/monthly/quarterly updates as it's all coding until they are ready to publish screenshots and performance numbers, which requires nearly 100% completion of the task at hand.

Hope this helps.

 

That was a question I had and it seems that you may have answered it perhaps. Every asset/module needs to be converted or rebuilt. 
 

Seems like the timeline is indefinite almost by definition because we’re still seeing new modules and current module updates at fairly regular intervals. That’s the aspect that a lot of us are interested. How are Vulkan/Multicore remodelling in very general terms being done side by side existing upgrades. It almost seems counterproductive to be doing both at the same time but I appreciate that given I know nothing whatsoever about ED’s strategy and even less about coding I’m probably wrong. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Willie Nelson

[Nomatic]

22 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

That was a question I had and it seems that you may have answered it perhaps. Every asset/module needs to be converted or rebuilt. 
 

Seems like the timeline is indefinite almost by definition because we’re still seeing new modules and current module updates at fairly regular intervals. That’s the aspect that a lot of us are interested. How are Vulkan/Multicore remodelling in very general terms being done side by side existing upgrades. It almost seems counterproductive to be doing both at the same time but I appreciate that given I know nothing whatsoever about ED’s strategy and even less about coding I’m probably wrong. 

 

I would hope… hope I tell you… that the new modules are being built for the new new tools and adapted to the current set. I’m sure they are. 

[M1Combat]

Probably depends on if they're far enough through the development to know what that looks like...  but I'd suspect they're doing it the right way.

[Willie Nelson]

We hope? We’re sure? We suspect? None of us really know.

I understand they don’t want to commit to an indeterminate timeline, sure but the $64,000 question is the general process of integrating old and new that I think is key here. 

[5ephir0th]

Right know i would be happy if they implement, at this moment, DLSS for 2D&VR.

Man, on Myst VR the performance increase achieve a 60% with quality setting...

[Glide]

The sim seems sharper with greater depth perception in the last release.  The current engine, IMHO, is the best yet.  I love how they just keep surprising me with more quality!

[XCNuse]

12 minutes ago, 5ephir0th said:

Right know i would be happy if they implement, at this moment, DLSS for 2D&VR.

Man, on Myst VR the performance increase achieve a 60% with quality setting...

For what it's worth, it would be very unwise to assume DCS gains any amount of performance when multithreading releases. It's an unsafe bet at least.

 

Where things should improve, would be comparing your FPS on an empty mission, versus a mission with a lot of action ongoing.

By offsetting AI tasking onto other threads (would be hoping for this at complete minimum), but knowing we're also getting multi light sources etc. It should be a safer assumption that your maximum performance might not actually improve (empty map, flying by yourself); but the performance will be gained, when you're in a large mission with a lot of AI units.

 

Essentially; if you have the ability to run a mission on a second computer, and connect to it locally, it's a safer assumption right now to assume the performance will be the same as playing "multiplayer" (even if it's LAN), than hosting the same mission on a single computer.

But.... there are no guarantees; and performance itself, might not be at the top of the list at initial release.

 

All multithreading is doing is opening up more doors, that's frankly it.

[5ephir0th]

2 minutes ago, XCNuse said:

For what it's worth, it would be very unwise to assume DCS gains any amount of performance when multithreading releases. It's an unsafe bet at least.

I was talking about DLSS on VR

[draconus]

55 minutes ago, 5ephir0th said:

Man, on Myst VR the performance increase achieve a 60% with quality setting...

Was there a cockpit full of tiny numbers and letters? Yeah, I wouldn't assume any "quality" from this.

[5ephir0th]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

Was there a cockpit full of tiny numbers and letters? Yeah, I wouldn't assume any "quality" from this.

I´ve never experimented a lost of detail using DLSS on 2D game, why you should lost it on VR?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

5 hours ago, 5ephir0th said:

Right know i would be happy if they implement, at this moment, DLSS

That won't happen. ED have stated ad nauseum that they're not going to implement proprietary technology.

Excluding everyone with an AMD (and soon iNTEL) graphics card isn't the best idea...

[despinoza]

they could implement all of them like many other games. DLSS and FSR and then, the  new Xess

All the upscaling techniques are properties of some companies and work better with their hardware so if ED wants to implement one of them (and they should) They would have to choose.

[Harker]

they could implement all of them like many other games. DLSS and FSR and then, the  new Xess
All the upscaling techniques are properties of some companies and work better with their hardware so if ED wants to implement one of them (and they should) They would have to choose.

I agree. Several games implemented both DLSS and FSR. Also, for now, DLSS is arguably superior to FSR, so it would be a mistake to not include it, IMO.

[Comstedt86]

10 hours ago, Harker said:

20 hours ago, despinoza said:

they could implement all of them like many other games. DLSS and FSR and then, the  new Xess
All the upscaling techniques are properties of some companies and work better with their hardware so if ED wants to implement one of them (and they should) They would have to choose.

I agree. Several games implemented both DLSS and FSR. Also, for now, DLSS is arguably superior to FSR, so it would be a mistake to not include it, IMO.

Not aerguably, DLSS is pretty much better in everyway, especially after 2.x version. One little issue you need an RTX card to run it and game needs to support it. 

 

FSR on the other hand works on just about anything and any game through different methods. (Lossless scaler etc.) 

 

FSR 2.0 looks promising as well. 

[draconus]

On 3/23/2022 at 6:19 PM, 5ephir0th said:

I´ve never experimented a lost of detail using DLSS on 2D game, why you should lost it on VR?

OK, maybe I'm just skeptical because I did not see any test on anything resembling the detailed cockpit in flight simulator.

[petsild]

The same technique as FSR can be enforced in Nvidia drivers for every game including DCS and works great.

[M1Combat]

7 hours ago, petsild said:

The same technique as FSR can be enforced in Nvidia drivers for every game including DCS and works great.

But that's proprietary BS though yeah??  Or are we talking some other thing?

[petsild]

Nvidia image scaling (NIS) is functional even for AMD graphics it's not DLSS.

[M1Combat]

Then I'm all for it :)...  Even though I run an nvidia card I dislike their proprietary solutions.

[Песочек]

I hope that Vulkan significantly improve performance in DCS

[lefuneste01]

40 minutes ago, Песочек said:

I hope that Vulkan significantly improve performance in DCS

Do not dream on it, because DCS is currently more bottlenecked by CPU.

As Waggs said, multi core evolutions  are more important.

Edited March 27, 2022 by lefuneste01

[SkateZilla]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:06 PM, despinoza said:

they could implement all of them like many other games. DLSS and FSR and then, the  new Xess

All the upscaling techniques are properties of some companies and work better with their hardware so if ED wants to implement one of them (and they should) They would have to choose.

Or they could use the Vulkan Hardware Assisted or Ray Tracing SSAA and only have to program a function once and work on all GPUs from 2016+

[3WA]

2 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

work on all GPUs from 2016+

Well, there goes my GPU.

[Buzzer1977]

23 hours ago, lefuneste01 said:

As Waggs said, multi core evolutions  are more important.

Modern APIs like Vulkan enable developers to make use of multiple cores ...

At least that's what NVidia says ...

Nvidia

Edited March 28, 2022 by Buzzer1977