Monitor 4k is a problem in DCS 2.5?

[Reinaldow]

Hello! I'm deciding to buy a monitor 4k. But I read the monitor 4k have an issue about see the targets. Is it true or the problem was solved?

 

Thanks!

 

Enviado de meu XT1635-02 usando o Tapatalk

[Pac-Man]

It must have been solved. I recently picked up a 4K monitor and love it. I can see aircraft miles and miles away.

[dooom]

:dunno:

 

i keep getting two totally different perspectives on 4k and have no idea what to believe anymore. On one hand there is a group saying the increased resolution = greater sight and spotting and on the other I hear people saying that it has made things worse for spotting.

 

Both say it is gorgeous but I am really wrestling to understand if 4k will make spotting easier or more difficult. I wish there was some way to nail down the consensus.

[Sideslip]

The people who think 4k makes it too hard to spot other aircraft have never had the opportunity to try and spot another aircraft while in flight. It's not nearly as easy as armchair pilots think it is. Also, the advantage that lower resolution had in that regard is no longer a thing.

 

 

 

Lower resolution makes pixels bigger (on a screen of the exact same physical dimensions), and if an aircraft far away is being displayed as 1 pixel, it will be easier to see the pixel on a lower resolution screen. That said, 3d images aren't that simple. If the aircraft takes up 1 pixel on a 4k screen, then it will take up 1/4 pixel on a 1080p screen. A 1080p screen cannot display 1/4 pixel, so either it will flicker and be visible 1/4 of the time, or it will be averaged 1/4 the aircraft pixel color and 3/4 the background color if anti-aliasing is turned on. So really, the 4k screen would be easier to spot a target with if you have really good eyesight and the screen is of a reasonable (ie LARGE) size.

 

 

To get a realistic chance of spotting the aircraft, you need to make your FOV the same as that which your monitor physically occupies in the real world. At the distance I sit from my screen that is roughly 50-60 degrees. However, in the real world I can see a lot smaller than a single pixel of my monitor, but I would have to know exactly where to be looking with really good contrast too.

 

 

 

DCS used to have a really bad problem with LODs. The lowest level was just a box, and the color of the box wasn't exactly accurate. Aircraft changed to the lowest LOD way too close too, which made them almost pop out of existence. Actually, some helicopters still do this but they usually change to a black box which can be somewhat easy to see depending on the background. I've noticed now that the lowest LOD seems to be much more detailed now with more shape and color, which means you can actually still identify what it is (big jet, small jet, helicopter etc) from far away. The higher the resolution of the monitor, the better this will be. And I've also noticed (on the nose of my wingman) that bright reflections are being applied as well, so depending on the angle you might get a glint of bright sunlight off the target (same thing helps you spot aircraft IRL).

 

 

There are three main things for you to consider:

 

 

1) If you want 4k you NEED a bigger monitor. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING SMALLER THAN 30" IN 4K! Yes the image will look really "life-like", which basically means you won't see most of the small details unless you stick your nose on the monitor anyway. I have a 1440p ultrawide which is about a 27" equivalent and sitting at 70cm I do not see individual pixels. Would a little more resolution be nice? Sure, but the difference would be very very small. Really, I would want both more resolution AND a bigger screen for the reason that I could have a similar FOV in the game as I see IRL, which means better target spotting without needing to zoom-in as often.

 

 

2) 4k will require a lot more horsepower... 4 times as much as 1080p. So if you get 60fps at 1080p you will get roughly 15fps at 4k (provided your GPU is the limiting factor). Also, despite what anybody says, 4k does not remove the need for anti-aliasing. If you run the anti-aliasing test on blurbusters.com you can stand 15ft from your monitor and you will still see aliasing artifacts, even though the pixels are so tiny at that distance that you cannot possibly perceive them. So you will still get flickering or shimmering on brightly lit buildings in the distance unless you turn on AA. And AA is VERY VERY expensive in 2.5. Coupled with 4k, you need at least a 1080ti to run that at reasonable frame rates.

 

 

3) On the positive side, if you find you cannot run 4k very well you can perfectly downscale to 1080p on a 4k monitor. Because the monitor can use exactly 4 pixels to draw 1 pixel at 1080p, it means that it will look exactly the same as a 1080p monitor would. So you can easily switch resolutions based on what game or program you are running, with no blurriness caused by non-native resolution.

 

 

In my opinion, the sweet-spot of resolution and performance right now is 1440p. If you can afford to buy the absolute latest GPU hardware then 4k can be good. I prefer a higher frame rate ESPECIALLY when using something like trackir and in any game that involves fast motion. You can get life-like resolution with a small 4k monitor, life-like FOV with a large monitor, life-like fluidity of motion with a 240hz 1080p monitor (CPU bottleneck is an issue), or you can get the best compromise with a 1440p ultra-wide >100hz monitor.

[protea1]

Dell P4317Q 43" Ultra HD 4K (3840x2160) 60Hz 8ms IPS Multi Client Desktop Monitor any takers?????????????

 

 

the ROG is toast lasted ONE DAY!!!

just a heads up

[HiJack]

Good post Sideslip.

 

In my opinion, the sweet-spot of resolution and performance right now is 1440p.

I agree, 1440p is my favorite also.

 

Spotting A2A is not easy and never have been but DCS have had its problems over the time that made things really strange. I'm not at all sure these are solved yet.

[protea1]

JUST A HEADS UP CHECK THE COMMENTS ON THIS MONITOR

REPORT....

 

 

 

 

Mr Wagner lower down.......GOING for this!!!!

comments?

[Sideslip]

Dell P4317Q 43" Ultra HD 4K (3840x2160) 60Hz 8ms IPS Multi Client Desktop Monitor any takers?????????????

 

 

the ROG is toast lasted ONE DAY!!!

just a heads up

 

 

FYI you have PMs disabled.

 

 

 

 

I don't know much about the monitor, but it looks like a good one. At 43" you will have a massive amount of screen in front of you. If you are sitting around 1m from it you will be able to see most of the cockpit while having a FOV not too far off from reality similar to my ultra-wide, which means things on the screen will appear close to their actual size. Good for spotting targets, and very immersive.

 

 

It is an IPS which is good, but you may experience IPS glow which are bright spots on a black or dark background. Not a big deal during daytime flight. My screen is also an IPS with very bad IPS glow, but it's not a deal breaker.

 

 

60hz is barely acceptable to me after using >100hz screens for about 6 years now, but the reality is getting more than 60fps at 4k is pretty difficult anyway, and there are very few 4k monitors that do better than 60hz.

 

 

Gsync or Freesync (depending on what's compatible) are actually even more important at 4k, since frame-rates can easily drop bellow 60hz. It's expensive but I find it absolutely worth it. But it all depends on what you're used to. If you time-traveled from 1950 and you've never used air-conditioning, you wouldn't think a car without it in Phoenix Arizona was a bad idea.

 

 

 

Hard to say without seeing the screen in person, but I think if you have the hardware to run it, you'll be very happy with that monitor.

[Fri13]

Hello! I'm deciding to buy a monitor 4k. But I read the monitor 4k have an issue about see the targets. Is it true or the problem was solved?

 

Thanks!

 

Enviado de meu XT1635-02 usando o Tapatalk

 

You will get a better way to spot targets as you can spot them further. A smaller pixel is visible from further distance when with lower resolution it wouldn't be visible.

But then at some distance point, the smaller resolution gives larger clear pixel to see, while 4K it is finer detailed and can be more difficult, and more realistic that way.

 

So you are exchanging the capability to see things, you see objects at further distance, but then you will get more difficulties to spot something at closer ranges like Mig-21 coming toward as it is far finer detailed instead rough pixel blob, and that way is far more realistic with 4K.

 

Then in close ranges with 4K you can see better the aircraft attitude and so on see when the enemy is getting their nose toward you or what is its turning rate, better than with lower resolution. But again you are exchanging that finer detail to having change to be more easily losing the enemy to background while with lower resolution the pixel blob is gone. Again, more realistic with 4K, and it can give you advantage if you fly more realistic manner (never take eyes away from the enemy in the dogfight) and you can maneuver better to avoid getting in front of them.

[Mars Exulte]

It's probably 99% in people's heads. Buy whatever you want and figure it out later. This nonsense about being disadvantaged comes from a small and very vocal crowd of PvP minmaxers. It's not that big a deal. You paying attention will matter more than your screen resolution.

[River]

Be aware son, 8700k, 1080ti and 32 gb ram on a 55inch 4k oled lg here and the game is on its absolute limits. Had to turn down settings and disable AA. Edges look very ugly without AA. I can run a stable 60fps but no shadows or I get stutters from time to time, mostly because of forrest and buildings.

 

Take a 1440p in a decent size and save yourself the troubles

[Sn8ke_iis]

Be aware son, 8700k, 1080ti and 32 gb ram on a 55inch 4k oled lg here and the game is on its absolute limits. Had to turn down settings and disable AA. Edges look very ugly without AA. I can run a stable 60fps but no shadows or I get stutters from time to time, mostly because of forrest and buildings.

 

Take a 1440p in a decent size and save yourself the troubles

 

Respectfully disagree, you're doing it wrong. You need to turn on FXAA if you are using big screen. It will smooth out the jaggies.

 

I have a ASUS ROG 27" 1440p 166Hz and a big screen. DCS is far superior and more immersive on the big screen bar none. The only advantage of a smaller monitor is G Sync and higher refresh rate, makes panning in TIR smoother. I use it when I want to snipe stormtroopers in Battlefront, but not for DCS.

 

The DCS 2.5+engine will render a single pixel in 4k that is visible for scale miles. It's really impressive. Nothing else comes close on the market today. I'm not sure what other posters are saying about target spotting. I honestly feel like I'm cheating with my display but I haven't played online with it. Not only that but the long distance horizon effect is damn near photorealistic, looking at a hazy mountain range on the horizon with a town in between almost fools your eye.

 

My Samsung in my sig is a computer monitor that you can watch movies on. Most of their mid range and up line is. It has freesync and can play 1440p 120Hz natively as well. I've tried both, 1440p with MSAA, and 4K with FXAA. 4K is better. I wouldn't call it the new standard yet because the brand new 4K 120 panels are very pricey to buy a clunky prototype. But we're almost there another year or two and the prices will be reasonable. The ASUS 27" 1440p 166Hz is the best monitor I've owned, and it's down below $700 US now.

 

IMHO 4K big screen all the way, you won't go back. There was even a guy who made a YT video for DCS a10, switched from triple monitor to 4K big screen.

 

Either way, happy flyin' :pilotfly:

[DeepDrummer]

I slid my 58" Plasma 1080p screen on my desk for a trial.

In one campaign I made, aircraft are activated at a certain point.

I could see those instantly as dots at around 6 miles.

It felt as though my cockpit was too roomy. The width of my shoulders gave me too much elbow room in a way.

My guages were fairly blurry and most text was hard to read.

 

I bit the bullet and got a 50 inch UHD HDR 4K screen.

 

 

I can see them at 6 miles but about 30 seconds later than the huge 1080p setup.

 

Guages are clear. Text is tiny but near readable.

 

My shoulders bump into the side of the cockpit just right.

 

Coming from a Benq 27" 1080p through the plasma to here, I would say the sweet spot is 40-50" 4K. My hardware runs it (see my sig) and just teeters on the vsynced 60 with not much AI and no mp yet. I tweek my settings to achieve that generally. The big differences are in the up close. Gorgeous.

 

All text is too small. ME, comms, trigger messages. Scaling the gui loses things. We need a factory hotfix please. No doubt it will come. I couldn't go back.

 

I probably paid at least 25% more than this after conversion, taxes, duties, extra scrutinizing scrutiny charges.

 

It seems to prefer to run stand alone than with a 1080p side monitor. Heads up on that note.

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-50-class-led-nu6900-series-2160p-smart-4k-uhd-tv-with-hdr/6288348.p?skuId=6288348

[SharpeXB]

3) On the positive side, if you find you cannot run 4k very well you can perfectly downscale to 1080p on a 4k monitor. Because the monitor can use exactly 4 pixels to draw 1 pixel at 1080p, it means that it will look exactly the same as a 1080p monitor would. So you can easily switch resolutions based on what game or program you are running, with no blurriness caused by non-native resolution.

Actually upscaled 1080p looks really awful on a 4K display. It looks noticeably soft and the colors aren’t as vivid. 1080p looks much much better on a 1080p screen. Upscaled 1440p does not look good either. My advice would be to not get a 4K screen unless you can send it an actual 2160x3840 signal.

 

With the specs below I can run DCS with all graphic settings maxed and 2xAA. Looks gorgeous. Any low FPS situations in the 50s are due to CPU and not related to GPU or 4K. Mostly I get 60+ FPS

 

I see far away aircraft very well in 4K. I think DCS just eliminated the “dot” mechanic anyways. Far off aircraft appear as defined shapes in UHD and are identifiable. No disadvantage there.

Edited September 26, 2018 by SharpeXB

[some1]

Yes, it is a common myth that you can run 1080p on a 4k screen without visual degradation. In fact it's no different than any other non-native resolution and it will look poorly.

[F900EX]

I bought an LG Electronics OLED55C7P for gaming and its impressive, but even with a 1080ti at max settings I was pushing it, biggest complaint ( not the TVs fault) was that I'm used to sitting close and was less than 2-3 feet away from the Tv lol .. My neck and turning around was hurting really bad after 1-2hrs of gaming, but it is impressive. Other games and sims ran with no issues or noticeable tearing.

 

 

Since I could not find a decent 42" IMO I think is the perfect size I ended buying an Alienware 34 Curved Gaming Monitor: (AW3418DW). Running 4K settings I have no complaints at 120Hz with G-Sync.