Another case of VR stutter / Ghosting

[mcdaniels]

Hi,

just tried your settings at my rig Gforce GTI 1070 8GB

AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ 3.2Ghz

48GB RAM

 

 

While flying in VR, the CPU is running at low load,

the GPU is almost at 99-100% (and there is no screenaction) except flying around online.

 

 

So I think, that the GPU is the weakspot.

 

 

 

Thinking of trying a really expansive one, only to see whether there is a change...

[Svsmokey]

You need to fine tune your graphics settings. I have 1080 ti as well and I'm not getting any of this double vision / jittering issue.

 

I'm running a PD of 1.0, terrain textures to low, Civil traffic off, water to low or medium, visib range to high, heat blur off, shadows high, msaa x2, anisotropic filtering x8, terrain objects shadows to off, clutter/grass and trees visibility sliders to the minimum.

 

Those settings are a really sad statement regarding VR performance with a 1080ti ! What headset are you running ?

[Harlikwin]

You need to fine tune your graphics settings. I have 1080 ti as well and I'm not getting any of this double vision / jittering issue.

 

I'm running a PD of 1.0, terrain textures to low, Civil traffic off, water to low or medium, visib range to high, heat blur off, shadows high, msaa x2, anisotropic filtering x8, terrain objects shadows to off, clutter/grass and trees visibility sliders to the minimum.

 

Try the following: I use a 980m and get "ok" performance with a rift:

 

PD 1.0: Try 1.2

Terrain: Doesn't matter

Civ off: good

water: doesn't matter much

Visib range: Turn this down, its a major frame killer that high

HB: keep off

Shadows: turn off or to flat big performance killer

MSAAx2: you want this on, but it eats alot of frames but you still want it on

AF: I use 16x, but 8 is fine

Terrain shadows: off (good)

Clutter/grass/trees: Once you turn the other stuff down, turn these up to like 1/3

 

Your biggest killers are the high visibility distance and the shadows, turn em down/off.

[JoeyJoJoJunior]

You said you disabled ASW. That's why you get ghosting. ATW cannot be turned off, so it's falling back to that once you disable ASW, and you're getting that ugly ghosting effect. As for the stuttering, that happens either when you cannot hit 45fps, or in the transition period between 90 fps and <90 fps. When ASW kicks in, it can cause a bit of stutter. I'd suggest putting ASW back on, and lowering your settings as others have suggested.

[dburne]

The "ghosting" is typically when ASW is on, and is a side effect of using it when ASW kicks in at 45 fps.

[JoeyJoJoJunior]

The "ghosting" is typically when ASW is on, and is a side effect of using it when ASW kicks in at 45 fps.

 

There's different kinds of ghosting in my experience. The one from ASW is more subtle and results in visual artifacts in certain situations (like HUD elements, propellers). The ghosting from ATW is more consistent and is visible on the whole frame. The former is much more playable.

[Harlikwin]

I aint afraid of no ghost!

 

[mcdaniels]

Just ordered a monster of a graphicscard. Lets see if I can get rid of this ghosts... If it does not work, I will send it back.

 

 

Gforce RTX 2080 8GB ram.

[dburne]

Just ordered a monster of a graphicscard. Lets see if I can get rid of this ghosts... If it does not work, I will send it back.

 

 

Gforce RTX 2080 8GB ram.

 

Some of that depends on the machine you will be feeding that card with.

I threw a 2080 Ti in a 4820k @ 4.5 GHz build with DDR3 ram and saw a very small improvement.

Did a new 9900k @ 5.1 GHz DR4 ram build a couple months ago, put the same 2080 Ti in it, and saw a much larger increase in performance.

[djlang1978]

CPU/RAM > GPU, maybe...

 

Just ordered a monster of a graphicscard. Lets see if I can get rid of this ghosts... If it does not work, I will send it back.

 

 

Gforce RTX 2080 8GB ram.

 

I just want to add my 2 cents.

 

I fly exclusively VR. I ran a rift on a GTX 1060 6GB, i7 4th gen cpu with 16GB ram and M.2 storage, and wasnt happy. Bought an RTX 2080 and stuffed it in and although a reasonable improvement, I still wasnt happy. Decided to upgrade CPU , RAM and MB. Now running an i5 9600k, 32GB RAM and the 2080 and without overclocking anything I am more than satisfied with the results.

 

Settings wise I pretty much have the same a Matt Wagner does in his video - including grass and clutter max.

 

Bottom line, for VR, the CPU and potentially the RAM upgrade was a much bigger improvement than the GPU upgrade.

[boedha68]

Dcs is still CPU dependent. I switched to msi RTX 2080 overclocked to 2070 MHz. Happy to get a 45 fps steady with medium settings. Waiting for the 3700x to clock it on 5.5 GHz. :D

[mcdaniels]

Try the following: I use a 980m and get "ok" performance with a rift:

 

PD 1.0: Try 1.2

Terrain: Doesn't matter

Civ off: good

water: doesn't matter much

Visib range: Turn this down, its a major frame killer that high

HB: keep off

Shadows: turn off or to flat big performance killer

MSAAx2: you want this on, but it eats alot of frames but you still want it on

AF: I use 16x, but 8 is fine

Terrain shadows: off (good)

Clutter/grass/trees: Once you turn the other stuff down, turn these up to like 1/3

 

Your biggest killers are the high visibility distance and the shadows, turn em down/off.

 

 

Just tried it and get absolutly no difference. If I switch off ASW, then the whole movement is blurry, if I switch it on I get ghosting on fast moving objects.

 

 

Annoying!

 

 

Only thing I noticed is, that the GPU is constantly showing up 95-100% load in Taskmanager. So I assume this is a too weak GPU. Hm... I have got an GTX 1070 :-(

[mcdaniels]

I just want to add my 2 cents.

 

I fly exclusively VR. I ran a rift on a GTX 1060 6GB, i7 4th gen cpu with 16GB ram and M.2 storage, and wasnt happy. Bought an RTX 2080 and stuffed it in and although a reasonable improvement, I still wasnt happy. Decided to upgrade CPU , RAM and MB. Now running an i5 9600k, 32GB RAM and the 2080 and without overclocking anything I am more than satisfied with the results.

 

Settings wise I pretty much have the same a Matt Wagner does in his video - including grass and clutter max.

 

Bottom line, for VR, the CPU and potentially the RAM upgrade was a much bigger improvement than the GPU upgrade.

 

 

Hm, ok but I got 48GB of RAM and an AMD Ryzen 1700x, so that is not that bad? The CPU load is above 20% when flying in VR.

 

 

You just made me thinking whether the GPU thing was worth it.

[djlang1978]

Hm, ok but I got 48GB of RAM and an AMD Ryzen 1700x, so that is not that bad? The CPU load is above 20% when flying in VR.

 

 

You just made me thinking whether the GPU thing was worth it.

 

The only way you will know is if you try it for yourself. If you are not happy with the results then send it back as you stated earlier. I cant be arsed to put back the old 1060 6Gb in the new system to see the difference - all I know is, Im pretty sure I dont need to upgrade my GPU or CPU for a couple of years, and I repeat, Im super happy with the results.

 

Side notes - Im sure a guru with overclocking powers and tweaking abilities could have a field day optomising my system and make it even better but Im not in that league yet. It all started when I put on a frame counter and I was maxing 13. Bought 2080. frame counter back on and avg around 40fps. New CPU and now almost a constant 90. Counter is off and Ill only put it on again if things seem strange.

[mcdaniels]

@djlang1978: I am looking forward to receive the graphicscard. For sure I will report back here.

 

 

 

Card should arrive at thursday. (hopefully)

[Wolf8312]

Those settings are a really sad statement regarding VR performance with a 1080ti ! What headset are you running ?

 

That's just how it is, I'm afraid. I use about the same settings/system 1.2 PD and 2X MSSA (no shadows).

But I have got to say I have no problem with how the game looks. For me it looks great. You have to choose settings that are also going to perform well under heavy load, not just flying around, especially when WW2 dogfighting is the aim.

Ghosting doesen't bother me either, that's just a fact of ASW/MS, but I have noticed that if I go above the graphics settings mentioned I'm getting a weird kind of stutter I have never noticed before. It's almost like a lag. The planes seem to jump around almost.

I want to roll back to an old DCS version but cannot because the DCS downloads are so slow as to be basically permanently stalled. Anyone know why or a way around this problem?

[mcdaniels]

So, card is here RTX2080 and only makes a very little difference. Very dissapointed, what the hell is going on here?

 

 

Load at CPU during dogfight 20% Load at GPU 80%

 

 

So in fact there is no huge performance impact if you have a rtx 2080 / compared to a gtx 1070. It is better, yes... but I thought the 2080 will boost it much more...

 

 

Do not go with a PD greater than 1.2

If you have ASW on, you get (as always) a distorted gunsight.

If you have it off, you get ghosting from time to time. (GTX 1070 has it always, RTX 2080 sometimes)

Edited March 14, 2019 by mcdaniels

[mcdaniels]

Conclusion:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 1700X @3.2Ghz

RAM: 48GB

 

GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 8GB

OS: Windows 10

Oculus Rift

 

Drivers: Latest

PD: 1.0

Shadows:Off

All to low except Textures of Objects: Medium

Visible Range:low

Preload Radius: lowest

 

 

 

if ASW is off, I got terrible doublepicture. Not only at the gunsight!

Even when doing a roll with ASW off, the landscape gets doubled blurry as hell.

 

 

With ASW on, 45FPS the blurry landscape is gone, but I get blurry gunsight and blurry fast moving objects (ghosting).

 

 

DCS remains unplayable for me, even with this high end rig.

 

 

Its a miracle to me what is going on here!

 

 

 

really really annoyed!

 

 

Dont know how you can get pretty flying with the RTX 2080...

Edited March 14, 2019 by mcdaniels

[Wolf8312]

Conclusion:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 1700X @3.2Ghz

RAM: 48GB

 

GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 8GB

OS: Windows 10

Oculus Rift

 

Drivers: Latest

PD: 1.0

Shadows:Off

All to low except Textures of Objects: Medium

Visible Range:low

Preload Radius: lowest

 

 

 

if ASW is off, I got terrible doublepicture. Not only at the gunsight!

Even when doing a roll with ASW off, the landscape gets doubled blurry as hell.

 

 

With ASW on, 45FPS the blurry landscape is gone, but I get blurry gunsight and blurry fast moving objects (ghosting).

 

 

DCS remains unplayable for me, even with this high end rig.

 

 

Its a miracle to me what is going on here!

 

 

 

really really annoyed!

 

 

Dont know how you can get pretty flying with the RTX 2080...

 

 

Dont want to be the bearer of bad news but my guess is your AMD CPU buddy. I have heard they perform badly in VR for flight sims like DCS/IL-2.

[mcdaniels]

Dont want to be the bearer of bad news but my guess is your AMD CPU buddy. I have heard they perform badly in VR for flight sims like DCS/IL-2.

 

 

damn thing is, that I thought of that already... just reinstalled my hole machine yesterday and give it another try today. Strange -for me- that the CPU is only running at a load of 20%.

 

 

If it is the CPU, I am thinking of going to Intel, return the RTX 2080 and use my GTX 1070 again.

 

 

Is anyone here using AMD with VR?

Edited March 15, 2019 by mcdaniels

[Wolf8312]

Another thing though is that DCS is really running badly lately for me and alot of other people in VR. I don't know what happened, because it was the best I've ever played it just a few weeks ago. Now MS/ASW or not, it's got really stuttery and horrible. I can't roll back to an earlier version either because there is something wrong with my connection to their servers and the download basically stalls.

 

 

I'm annoyed too. Can't really play it like this!

[mcdaniels]

Hi again,

the whole reinstalling was some extra task, which was senseless. Get the absolutly same behavior. Now, I am really out of ideas.

 

 

I know what ASW is, but what is MS?

 

 

Another thing I am curious about is, whether the DCS-support will get active here. I think it will be time for them to do something!

 

 

UPDATE: I now got into overclocking my Ryzen 1700X to 3.8GHZ, put out 2 of my four ram-modules to run them in Dualchannelmode, then I also forced a RAM-Clock of 3000Mhz (automatically they are running at 2100Mhz, although they are capable of running at 3000Mhz).

 

 

Still at lowest settings and PD of 1, No Oculus tools running, ASW at auto.

 

 

Flying the Spitfire Combatmission (which was always horrible in VR for me) shows absolutly no ghosting or distorted gunsight. So it seems some kind of performanceissue -> CPU <-> RAM

 

 

BUT: What works offline is not working at multiplayer -> ghosting is still there and ASW kicking in...

Edited March 15, 2019 by mcdaniels

[Wolf8312]

MS is basically valves version of ASW motion smoothing.

 

 

 

We may be waiting a while for improvements, but we all want them.

 

 

I've gone back to version 2.53 and am getting much better performance. Still doesent seem as good as it was, but don't know if thats my imagination. At least now the same mission with MS on doesen't feel like I'm flying through liquid fabric. Does seem as if the graphics/aliasing are not quite as good as they were in 2.54 but again hard to know if thats my imagination! Maybe they got bumped up and degraded performance.

 

 

 

I think you'll drive yourself mad worrying about ghosting, its worse with ASW/MS on (though performance won't be as smooth) but I still get it some either way. It's just something I got used to to be honest and an unavoidable reality of VR/reprojection.

[tkairshows]

I had bad judders only online/multiplayer with my Rift. Someone told me to take the Rift off for 15 sec for it to turn off and put it back on. It was smooth as glass. Try it - it works.

[eaglecash867]

I've gone back to version 2.53 and am getting much better performance. Still doesent seem as good as it was, but don't know if thats my imagination. At least now the same mission with MS on doesen't feel like I'm flying through liquid fabric. Does seem as if the graphics/aliasing are not quite as good as they were in 2.54 but again hard to know if thats my imagination! Maybe they got bumped up and degraded performance.

 

Yup. 2.5.3 is MUCH better performance-wise than 2.5.4 is. If it doesn't seem as good as you remember it, did you have the shaders mod installed before? It makes a HUGE difference in 2.5.3, and I found that running DCS with the default link that gets put on the desktop will always attempt to update to the latest version. Even when you deny the update, it still changes things, because the shaders mod ends up getting removed. Since finding that out, and not wanting to accidentally kill my 2.5.3 installation, I changed the link to point at the rundcs.exe file in the same directory, so now it doesn't try to update and the shaders mod stays intact. I agree with you about the anti-aliasing between the two versions. 2.5.4 does seem to have better anti-aliasing, but I think that's what's killing performance. Its like DCS is fighting with itself over anti-aliasing. I'm going to try forcing it completely off with the Nvidia settings and see if that makes a difference.