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** DCS: F-14 Development Update - September!! **


Cobra847

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Short answer is: yes, but not called a PFM.

 

Long answer is: the model is an EFM meaning the flight model was developed outside of ED and in fact is a program that runs outside of DCS. It receives atmospheric and physical parameters (speed, AOA, etc) from DCS which is then fed into the Heatblur FM program. The program then crunches all the info and feeds forces to the rigid physics model inside of DCS.

 

I think a lot of people figure that FM development is a lot like a "mad libs" word game where you take some aircraft specifics and plug it into a framework that exists in DCS - that is true for SFMs. But PFMs/EFMs are clean sheet mathematical descriptions of the aerodynamic and physical forces that effect the airplane. So instead of a mad libs we are talking about a blank sheet of paper.....pretty intimidating.

 

In the case of the F-14, the FM was developed from NASA wind tunnel testing, NASA aerodynamic evaluation data, USN real world performance data (covering all aspects), USN documentation for handling/testing, USN docs for the AFCS system, flight control systems, USN weight and balance documentation (which proved to be quite important for replicating behavior), detailed engine documentation/dynamics modeling, etc, etc, etc.....a lot of stuff!

 

All of this information is then digested and converted to equations, coefficients, look-up tables, and all that stuff by the FM developer. The F-14 FM actually has 2 FM engineers/coders/developers. The lead is a joint PhD in engineering and computer science (Mechatronics) while the other's day job is as an FM developer for Level D simulators (private and light commercial jets).

 

Add to that, the FM has over a hundred hours of real F-14 pilot evaluation time resulting in many adjustments. We thought the FM was in pretty good shape a year ago when the pilots first stated giving feedback. Well a year later we have adjusted a lot of stuff! Things are actually quite different than they were back then (even without changing the core aero data from wind tunnels and other sources). FM development means a lot of very fine tuning that can have big effects. Without all the pilot input, things would actually feel pretty different - even though everything would still match the data. Aircraft feel is surprisingly dependent on small details. :)

 

I am happy to say that our pilot SMEs are quite happy with it, even as we adjust a few more details (like how much roll rate changes with wing sweep, as Cobra mentioned). One of our best SMEs (very detail oriented and he uses DCS habitually - he has made a huge contribution to the module!) recently described the FM as a "game changer" - so we are very happy with the depth and accuracy.

 

So like I said....long answer. :)

 

In summary: it's really good! :D

 

-Nick (Heatblur Tomcat tester)

 

What was it like to have real F-14 pilots try out the Tomcat in DCS?

Also I forgot to ask, but will the F-14A/B in DCS have the DFCS?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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@BlackLion213

 

@Cobra

 

Thanks and great to hear this, can't wait !

 

 

 

 

 

Q. Can we expect extra attention to force feedback for our full enjoyment in 'feeling' the aircraft at the controls?

 

 

 

(It's such a great feature if properly modeled, also considering there are many users of FFB:smartass:)

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That post is from 2016 so maybe things have changed. In that post, Cobra states the reason for no DFCS is due to it being introduced late in the Tomcat life. That is of course true, it reached the fleet in 1998, however; LANTIRN was not originally planned either but now we are getting it and the LANTIRN didn’t hit the fleet until 1996.

i5 7600K @4.8GHz | 1080 Ti | 32GB 3200MHz | SSD | DCS SETTINGS | "COCKPIT"

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@BlackLion213

 

@Cobra

 

Thanks and great to hear this, can't wait !

 

 

 

 

 

Q. Can we expect extra attention to force feedback for our full enjoyment in 'feeling' the aircraft at the controls?

 

 

 

(It's such a great feature if properly modeled, also considering there are many users of FFB:smartass:)

 

Another FFB joystick user here. This is a good question. FFB2 sort of works in the Mig21 (haven't tried the Viggen yet) but I hope they will add in at least some more effects at least in edge of envelope/stall conditions for the F14.

Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.

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Another FFB joystick user here. This is a good question. FFB2 sort of works in the Mig21 (haven't tried the Viggen yet) but I hope they will add in at least some more effects at least in edge of envelope/stall conditions for the F14.

 

Yes another MS FFB2 user here, I'm sort of hoping that it should just fall out of the flight model as I'm guessing they'd be modelling stick forces anyway. Although using the MS FFB with a jet is always a trade-off ... love the FFB, but just doesn't have enough buttons.


Edited by Tomsk
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What was it like to have real F-14 pilots try out the Tomcat in DCS?

 

Its really fun and you learn a ton about the real airplane. :) The first Pilot testing was live (at my house actually - best meeting point for testing since the FM developers flew out as well) and that was a really cool day. Having the pilot try things in VR led to a lot good conversations about the F-14 and sea-stories in general.

 

On the other hand, it can be hard to hear constructive or negative feedback. The FM developers and testers have invested a lot of time trying to match docs and reported behavior. You become pretty invested in your interpretation and it can be tough when you hear "oh boy.....we have a lot of work to do here" and then get a long list of things that are wrong and need to be fixed.

 

However, that is the only way that you get things truly right and you have to be ready to redo and endlessly adjust things. It also makes it way more gratifying when the pilots say that it feels like a Tomcat! Knowing that it wasn't always the case and a lot of work was invested to get it there.

 

Also I forgot to ask, but will the F-14A/B in DCS have the DFCS?

 

 

That post is from 2016 so maybe things have changed. In that post, Cobra states the reason for no DFCS is due to it being introduced late in the Tomcat life. That is of course true, it reached the fleet in 1998, however; LANTIRN was not originally planned either but now we are getting it and the LANTIRN didn’t hit the fleet until 1996.

 

The F-14A and F-14B will both use AFCS. There may be some version with DFCS in the future, but nothing concrete yet. I personally think this is the better approach since the AFCS Tomcat is so much fun to fly and has a ton of personality. With DFCS, so much of the bad behavior was tuned out and it starts to feel a lot more like the Hornet - very straightforward to fly.

 

But that also takes out many of the fun aspects as well. The Tomcat is quite straightforward to fly under normal conditions, but can be a bit of a handful at high AOA or in the landing configuration (bit directionally weak and prone to dutch roll with lateral control inputs). However, if you learn a few straightforward techniques, then things are straightforward and the aircraft remains controllable even up to pretty extreme conditions. This makes the module very rewarding and keeps you coming back to fly over and over again. :)

 

Without those traits, it loses some of the magic imho. But who knows what the future holds, my guess is that something with DFCS will be released eventually....

 

-Nick

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The F-14A and F-14B will both use AFCS. There may be some version with DFCS in the future, but nothing concrete yet. I personally think this is the better approach since the AFCS Tomcat is so much fun to fly and has a ton of personality. With DFCS, so much of the bad behavior was tuned out and it starts to feel a lot more like the Hornet - very straightforward to fly.

 

But that also takes out many of the fun aspects as well. The Tomcat is quite straightforward to fly under normal conditions, but can be a bit of a handful at high AOA or in the landing configuration (bit directionally weak and prone to dutch roll with lateral control inputs). However, if you learn a few straightforward techniques, then things are straightforward and the aircraft remains controllable even up to pretty extreme conditions. This makes the module very rewarding and keeps you coming back to fly over and over again. :)

 

Without those traits, it loses some of the magic imho. But who knows what the future holds, my guess is that something with DFCS will be released eventually....

 

-Nick

 

Great info as always! Thanks Nick! So at least for the initial release, it looks like our F-14B will be a 1996-2001(year DFCS installation was completed for whole fleet) version.

i5 7600K @4.8GHz | 1080 Ti | 32GB 3200MHz | SSD | DCS SETTINGS | "COCKPIT"

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Great info as always! Thanks Nick! So at least for the initial release, it looks like our F-14B will be a 1996-2001(year DFCS installation was completed for whole fleet) version.

 

Well, it really is more of a 1988-1995 F-14B, but Heatblur is working out the best way to integrate LANTIRN from a function and artwork standpoint (cockpit features that change when the LANTIRN is loaded, for example). More to come on the topic in the future. :)

 

-Nick

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@BlackLion213

 

@Cobra

 

Thanks and great to hear this, can't wait !

 

 

 

 

 

Q. Can we expect extra attention to force feedback for our full enjoyment in 'feeling' the aircraft at the controls?

 

 

 

(It's such a great feature if properly modeled, also considering there are many users of FFB:smartass:)

 

 

Would love to do realistic force feedback implementation, but no one in the team actually has a force feedback stick, and they're not that easy to come by nowadays :joystick:

/Daniel

 

Heatblur Simulations

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@Cobra847

 

Been waiting for the F-14 for years. Have been through enough teasers for now, it really starts to p*ss me off. I've outgrown the years where it would be considered funny for the first couple of times, not so much now anymore.

 

Now there's a "Reveal date". Would it be to much to ask as a current and future customer of Heatblur to be a bit more specific? You are running a business after all.

 

It could be one of those announcement of an announcement. Or an announcement of the the pre-purchase date. It could even be the date where you will actually publish the F-14.

 

So what is it? Please?

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What we have seen of the Tomcat so far does look incredibly detailed but why would it's system requirements be any more than what the Hornet requires?

 

I actually know very little about how computers render evey frame in real time, so I just thought that a higher level of detail is likely to need a better rig, but i may well be wrong, hence I asked.

Planes: FC3, Spitfire, Harrier, F-14, F-18, MiG-21, Edge 540 - Helicopters: UH-1H, Mi-8 - Environments: Persian Gulf, Supercarrier

PC specs in the spoiler

 

I run DCS 2.7 using:

MasterWatt 550 semi-fanless and semi-modular, core i7-3770 (4 cores @ 3.8 GHz) with 8 GB DDR3, GTX1050 Ti (768 cores @ 1.8 GHz) with 4 GB GDDR5, 5.1 sound card, 240 GB SSD, Windows 8.1T.16000M FCS Flight Pack (i. e. stick+throttle+rudder pedals), opentrack head trakcer

 

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I think its the safest thing to assume that they will just unveil the non Chromecat. It can only get better from there and it prevents dissappointments :)

''Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction.''

Erich Fromm

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I think its the safest thing to assume that they will just unveil the non Chromecat. It can only get better from there and it prevents dissappointments :)

 

Why can't they just grow up and just make a plain statement. This is my hobby, the devs should be approaching this as a business. Heatblur is selling licenses to planes. I'd like to buy the next 2 (Yeah... A-6!!) But i'd also like to be dealt with on a professional level.

 

Too-Old-For-This-Shit.jpg

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This project has become bigger and better than when it first started. The addition of an AI A-6 plus the Jester RIO is making this the most ambitious and greatest project in the history of combat flight simulations. You guys are awesome - take all the time you need to get this done right!

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@Koriel: I feel your pain. The F14 is literally my dream module. I swear, I actually dream of flying this plane in DCS. With that said the devs are communicating in what is considered today a standard industry approach. Whether you or I like or dislike it, it's how things are done today. Marketing and sales figures prove it.


Edited by OnlyforDCS

Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals.

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@Koriel: I feel your pain. The F14 is literally my dream module. I swear, I actually dream of flying this plane in DCS. With that said the devs are communicating in what is considered today a standard industry approach. Whether you or I like or dislike it, it's how things are done today. Marketing and sales figures prove it.

 

The reason why i joined DCS actually, right after they announced it. Am i surprised by the looks of this? Nah, i came to expect something like that after i saw the Viggen (and in resent times the Hornet). Is it going to be a great day when i finally install this on my drive? In the words of the great Neil Diamond......Hell yeah! Is it going to be the day i celebrate my second birthday? Nope! That date is reserved for the day i hear the noise of TF30 afterburning turbofans on my rig! :pilotfly:

 

EDIT: (to the devs) if not (or even if) semi transparent, is there a plan to make the dialogue wheel custom off-center? Like drag it into the corner of the screen or so?

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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@Cobra847

 

Been waiting for the F-14 for years. Have been through enough teasers for now, it really starts to p*ss me off. I've outgrown the years where it would be considered funny for the first couple of times, not so much now anymore.

 

Now there's a "Reveal date". Would it be to much to ask as a current and future customer of Heatblur to be a bit more specific? You are running a business after all.

 

It could be one of those announcement of an announcement. Or an announcement of the the pre-purchase date. It could even be the date where you will actually publish the F-14.

 

So what is it? Please?

 

What would you do if you knew this information? The date will come anyway, it doesn't matter what happens then. The module is in the work, it will come out some day.

 

Just chill out. Let's wait and see what happens.

------=:: I FLY BLEIFREI ::=------

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Absolutely stunning! Never seen such attention to detail in any simulation. The cockpit textures are of course, out of this world, they look so real - which brings me to a personal concern. While it's true that the Tomcat is an old airplane by today's standards, but we are simulating a Tomcat in it's "glory days", and it is also very true that cockpits and planes get worn out pretty quickly, however, the current screenshots feel a bit too worn out to my personal taste.

 

I have seen the F-14 recently in a few museums, the most recent one in Mobile, AL and Pensacola, and even though the planes saw plenty of abuse from visitors, they were not that worn out in certain places.

 

Is this the level of wear and tear we will see? The knobs and switches feel as if they will break as soon as you touch them :)

 

Regardless, amazing job.

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