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Brunner Force Feedback Joystick Base


Mozart

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I think the newer version of the grip has more buttons. Before I bought it I had asked Brunner and they thought that the added buttons would not work, but that the all the others should work. I hope Brunner gets one of the grip when they go back in stock this Thursday. I don't know how important it is for them to quickly rework there software to make it compatible. I did reach out to there support people who had me try assign it to the older version of the grip in there software which didn't help. I'm still waiting for them to get back to me with follow up questions I had. My guess is that it will be awhile before it's functional based on what I've seen. In hind sight I should have waited.

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I think the newer version of the grip has more buttons. Before I bought it I had asked Brunner and they thought that the added buttons would not work, but that the all the others should work.

Yeah, because that is what makes sense according to the Virpil product page (Warthog/Cougar compatibility minus some buttons).

 

 

I don't know how important it is for them to quickly rework there software to make it compatible. I did reach out to there support people who had me try assign it to the older version of the grip in there software which didn't help.

tbh, I doubt a software update would help here, this should work without, because there most certainly is no software update for the Warthog base either and the electrical wiring between the two bases shouldn't be that different.

But fingers crossed that they come along with something that actually helps.

 

 

btw, you don't have by chance a Warthog base lying around that you could try the stick with, just to see if it works there?

And there is no magical switch on the grip for a compatibility mode?

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Парни,должен вас разочеровать!Ета новая ручка от мангуста,не работает по той причине что там есть виртуальные оси, и вот по етому она не совместима!!!Мне жаль.Я делаю настоящий рус от МиГ25.

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Thanks for your advice, I am a little confused as well. When I select VPC Mongoos T-50 in the button page of there software as they suggested. It does report as being a VPC T-50 in both windows game controller and DCS. However none of the buttons works in either.

 

I don't have a Warhog base to test, only the Virpil Warbrd base which works fine. I'm definitely disappointed with the lack of support from Brunner there has been no response since the first message telling me to change the device in there software.

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They are possibly out of ideas as well.

 

 

(without a device at hands)

 

 

Edit: even though it's not their job, it might be worth contacting Virpil support as well, maybe they've got a suggestion how to fix this.

Maybe you have to just short-circuit two pins or something like that.


Edited by Berniyh
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I think the newer version of the grip has more buttons. Before I bought it I had asked Brunner and they thought that the added buttons would not work, but that the all the others should work. I hope Brunner gets one of the grip when they go back in stock this Thursday. I don't know how important it is for them to quickly rework there software to make it compatible. I did reach out to there support people who had me try assign it to the older version of the grip in there software which didn't help. I'm still waiting for them to get back to me with follow up questions I had. My guess is that it will be awhile before it's functional based on what I've seen. In hind sight I should have waited.

 

I had the same experience with the CM grip. Never got it to work. I ended up building a Thrustmaster F-22 grip with Cougar innards as I wanted to use an extension, and save weight.

 

They asked to purchase my T-50cm from me, and I replied that I would, but never heard back.

 

i9 12900k @ 4.9ghz, 32gb RAM

Nvidia RTX 3090

Windows 11 x64

Valve Index

Brunner CLS-E w/RS F16GRH, Virpil TCS Rotor Plus Collective, BRD F1 Pedals, WH Throttle, FSSB R3 w/WH Grip, PointCTRL v1

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It's annoying that Brunner has seen run across this problem before, when I asked them prior to purchasing mine they said it should work minus the extra buttons. They told me it hadn't been tested because the grip was out of stock. If they had purchased yours this probably would have all been worked out by now.

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I ordered one on may 16th. Shipping date is 28 of may.. I haven't played any dcs these last couple of weeks and am waiting impatiently.. Hopefully will have it in the first week of June.

 

I think it should be arriving at your door step very soon, that's based on my experience, they are very professional.

 

I haven't used my base a whole lot, I have the Virpil T-50Cm grip and the only things that work are the pitch and roll.

 

What is missing is the ability to the ability to trim at all, which from my lack of experience and cement based hand are a necessity for the F-18.

 

I've been told from Brunner that hardware trim is the gold standard

 

I did fly with the Brunner for 2 days doing air to air refueling. I will say I that it was VERY SMOOTH and enjoyable to fly with.

 

I'm glad you step into the abyss and purchased one, It give Brunner more incentive that our market is viable.

 

Let me know if there is any thing I can do to help.

 

Jim

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Is anyone competent with the CLS2Sim software and/or has a profile for the Airbus stick, I'm trying to create a profile that will replicate the F16. I've fiddled with the "%move limit" and "% negative move limit", setting them both to 5% for pitch and roll, which produces the required force to minimise stick movement, but when not applying a force to the stick it oscillates uncontrollably (actually bit worried it's about to shake itself apart).

I can't seem to access the online profiles, so if anyone could help out that would be appreciated. Also feel free to try setting the limits as I did and see if you get the same reaction...

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AU,

 

Are there any pilot cues offered to the pilot in the F-16 or is it pure fly by wire? I read somewhere that the original transducer for the stick was changed to allow a bit of stick movement as transitioning pilots didn't like the total lack of stick movement.

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Is anyone competent with the CLS2Sim software and/or has a profile for the Airbus stick, I'm trying to create a profile that will replicate the F16. I've fiddled with the "%move limit" and "% negative move limit", setting them both to 5% for pitch and roll, which produces the required force to minimise stick movement, but when not applying a force to the stick it oscillates uncontrollably (actually bit worried it's about to shake itself apart).

Can't say anything about specific parameters, since I can't launch the gaming PC right now, but regarding the oscillation:

that's nothing to worry about, it happens in a lot of feedback devices.

Basically it's due to a feedback loop similar to what happens when you place a microphone in front of a speaker which outputs the input of the microphone.

In that case, noise gets amplified and suddenly you hear loud noises.

 

 

The same happens with the ffb stick, due to the centering force, it's start to oscillate due to small fluctuations in the controlling signal.

It can be prevented by applying some damping (can't remember right now if that is available in the software, but should be) on both axis, preventing the amplification of the effects.

 

You will also not feel the fluctuations when you put your hand on the stick, because your hand will act as a damper as well, preventing the amplification of the fluctuations.

 

 

Note though that damping will also result in a less 'crisp' feeling of the FFB (in case you're playing a game for which an FFB plugin exists).

So don't apply too much damping.

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Has anyone disassembled this joystick? Or are there any tear down pictures/videos? I’m interested in its mechanical construction.

 

I think no :) Because of warranty void.

 

But what do you want to see? I can describe construction without tearing it down.

 

I am 99% sure it is based on their direct drive actuators.

Direct-Drive-Titelbild.png

 

With either direct stick connection like in active stick controls

active-controls-data-ngi.jpg

 

or utilizes A320-like gimbal.

FSC-A320-SIDESTICK-PRO-CPT-OEM-RIGHT-IMG_9839.jpg

 

 

There are not so much options for such device.


Edited by propeler
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My brunner just arrived. Speedy shipment. Just took a bit before it was send but I was notified of the shipping date.

 

Just didnt took into account that Zwitserland isnt in the European Union... so had to pay 21% taxes on top... taxes alone was Almost as much for what I payed for my mfg crosswinds lol.

 

Have to regain Some points with the missus lol so we are going to the Ikea now.


Edited by kingpinda
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I'm currently using a 20cm Sahaj extension

 

Does the force, even with the extension, seem strong enough still? I have my Brunner on order, my Warthog stick ready, and now I just need to pick up an extension. Was planning on just doing 100mm and center mount the stick. Hoping the force will still be plenty. :book:

 

Which extension did you get?

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Does the force, even with the extension, seem strong enough still? I have my Brunner on order, my Warthog stick ready, and now I just need to pick up an extension. Was planning on just doing 100mm and center mount the stick. Hoping the force will still be plenty. :book:

 

Which extension did you get?

 

 

im experimenting with my warthog stick and 12 cm alluminium extension. its quite a heavy combination though and although it hits 4 NM on the axis limits with my profile at the moment, it lowers the forces when the stick reaches 60 degrees celcius. with my profile thats quite fast. hold at deflection limit at 3.6 NM and you see the temp rising. 6 seconds or so at you hear a click and you feel forces are lower. 2.6 nm for instance. at which the stick jump to axis limit because forces are lower and my hand was still pushing it.

 

 

Gitnick you might want to start out without extension. I just disconnected the software and i threw the limp stick from side to side. man its heavy! the hardware has been doing a great job keeping the stick with extension in its position! it doesnt help either that the warthog stick isnt as balanced. its heavier towards the left.

 

 

 

Gonna fiddle some more because i want to be able to make a profile that when trimmed it wont dip a bit but keep the device from overheating at deflection limits.

 

 

I flew the huey though and obviously i fly with lower force. Felt great. but i need alot more testing. I might decide though to lose the extension and get a better directer response from the device. if that is the case i have to figure out ofcourse.

 

 

edit: trying to understand relation between force strength and hydraulics still but im narrowing in a profile which i like. had to increase backlash deadzone to stop stick from oscilating but forces seem strong enough for realistic chopper flight. even with this heavy combo. might have to decrease curve more and put in more hydraulics/damping to minimize dropping when trimmed off center. even have a profile now that is a bit to strong for chopper fligh.


Edited by kingpinda
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I went back a few pages but couldn’t find the answer - these babies are compatible with DCS now?

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@ jameslockridge

 

 

You mean when the base is holding thne stick in the center or if its limp?

 

 

When in the center yeah it makes a bit of noise as well. I usually disconnect it in the software and the stick goes limp. Then it doesnt make a sound.

 

 

@TacoGrease No not yet. It acts as a normal spring stick at the moment wihtout force feedback. Although I use the hardware trim which works like a charm.

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I had a custom extension made from a listing on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/THRUSTMASTER-WARTHOG-ALUMINIUM-GOOSENECK-EXTENSIONS-FOR-HELI-FLIGHT-SIM-PILOTS/293059996503?hash=item443bbcab57:m:mbakdbpk8lD7Degoh_pVdlw

 

Unfortunately this extension's weight, coupled with an F-22 Pro grip (yes, the all-plastic version from the 90s that I converted with Cougar innards) caused much of the same behavior. I ended up taking the extension away after reading on Brunner's website about not allowing the base to overheat.

 

I now run a very light aluminum 20cm extension, with the F-22 Pro grip, and that seems to be the magic combination of functionality, and not taxing the base. Highest temp I see with this combo is between 30-32 deg C.

 

I do miss the extra push on the CMS from my Warthog grip, but based on Brunner's warnings, and personal experience, I wouldn't dream of using that grip with an extension. I have a T-50, which should work fine weight wise, it's just too tall for me to use with my setup without hitting other parts of my simpit.

 

im experimenting with my warthog stick and 12 cm alluminium extension. its quite a heavy combination though and although it hits 4 NM on the axis limits with my profile at the moment, it lowers the forces when the stick reaches 60 degrees celcius. with my profile thats quite fast. hold at deflection limit at 3.6 NM and you see the temp rising. 6 seconds or so at you hear a click and you feel forces are lower. 2.6 nm for instance. at which the stick jump to axis limit because forces are lower and my hand was still pushing it.

 

 

Gitnick you might want to start out without extension. I just disconnected the software and i threw the limp stick from side to side. man its heavy! the hardware has been doing a great job keeping the stick with extension in its position! it doesnt help either that the warthog stick isnt as balanced. its heavier towards the left.

 

 

 

Gonna fiddle some more because i want to be able to make a profile that when trimmed it wont dip a bit but keep the device from overheating at deflection limits.

 

 

I flew the huey though and obviously i fly with lower force. Felt great. but i need alot more testing. I might decide though to lose the extension and get a better directer response from the device. if that is the case i have to figure out ofcourse.

 

 

edit: trying to understand relation between force strength and hydraulics still but im narrowing in a profile which i like. had to increase backlash deadzone to stop stick from oscilating but forces seem strong enough for realistic chopper flight. even with this heavy combo. might have to decrease curve more and put in more hydraulics/damping to minimize dropping when trimmed off center. even have a profile now that is a bit to strong for chopper fligh.

 

i9 12900k @ 4.9ghz, 32gb RAM

Nvidia RTX 3090

Windows 11 x64

Valve Index

Brunner CLS-E w/RS F16GRH, Virpil TCS Rotor Plus Collective, BRD F1 Pedals, WH Throttle, FSSB R3 w/WH Grip, PointCTRL v1

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