The new su-35 at LAAD [look the size of those MFD]

[wsoul2k]

Do you understand what we are talking about? It is a Su-35 with AESA and with French avionics. (Even the eurofighter have to fear this stuff)

I just don’t understand why they need this kind of air superiority jet in that peaceful region.

 

This peaceful region have an an insane person ( ie Chaves ) very near and without a STRONG leader in Region HE can became a problem :thumbup:

[Anytime]

If your fighting Mig-15s :P

 

:poster_spam:

analog cockpit is much better than glass one

[SVK_Fox]

If your fighting Mig-15s :P

 

:poster_spam:

 

I will try to explain advantage of analog cokcpit.

Try this on yourself. Put on the wall 2 clocks. One analog and one digital. Try reading during dusk or fog. If you are looking on analog instrument you are able in 1 sec calculate position of each pointer of the clock. But If you have digital clock you HAVE TO READ!!! Friend of mine, who flyed on many tipes of aircrafts (civil), in his last years flyed also on airbus with glass cockpit and as he said - "I hate that feeling when you are not able controll all of instruments by one sight" I hope I transalted it right. So think about it and than start your MIG-15 and enjoy it :smilewink:

[thesystem]

Well, i had a whole disuccion about analog or glass.....

 

But look at the weapon instruments, they are much easier than just a simple scope. Now you can have an MFD with every function you want. A2A, A2g, FLIR and so on. It is much easier to understand. But..how about jamming?

[p_o_d_2_2]

I will try to explain advantage of analog cokcpit.

Try this on yourself. Put on the wall 2 clocks. One analog and one digital. Try reading during dusk or fog. If you are looking on analog instrument you are able in 1 sec calculate position of each pointer of the clock. But If you have digital clock you HAVE TO READ!!! Friend of mine, who flyed on many tipes of aircrafts (civil), in his last years flyed also on airbus with glass cockpit and as he said - "I hate that feeling when you are not able controll all of instruments by one sight" I hope I transalted it right. So think about it and than start your MIG-15 and enjoy it :smilewink:

 

Maybe its because I have grown up in a completely digital world, but its a pain in the butt for me to tell time by looking at hour and minute hands. Even if there is an analog clock in front of my face, I'm going to pull out my cell phone and look at its time display if I need to know what time it is. Just my thoughts, that not maybe some people are like me and automatically interpret numbers/letters faster than associating analog gauges and dials with the same information.

[Pilotasso]

Fighters usualy have redundant instrumentation. The F-16 is filled with both analog and digital instruments. If something goes out theres the analog equivalent, but digital one are better for combat situations because they are much more automated and provide information quiker and easier.

 

There should be no totaly Digital pit unless those components are very very reliable wich maybe the case of F-35 (though disliking the layout myself). Its a risky mve for russian planes to wear such lush pits with technology that the russians are just now starting to use.

[TucksonSonny]

There should be no totaly Digital pit unless those components are very very reliable wich maybe the case of F-35 (though disliking the layout myself). Its a risky mve for russian planes to wear such lush pits with technology that the russians are just now starting to use.

 

Basically what you are saying is that only components on the F-35 are very very very reliable and all the others are not reliable (let say others works like shit)?

 

And what is your problem with Russian planes?

 

BTW, Russian jet engines have not the low stall speed problem of western engines.

[tflash]

Commercial aircraft are switching rapidly to all-digital displays. The whole idea is there is a lot of redundancy built in.

 

I appreciate the nostalgic value of these old dials and in Lockon they are superbly rendered, but this is all aviation history and no longer 21st century combat.

 

Have a look at what Gripen flies today:

 

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen/cockpit/cockpit.jpg

[Pilotasso]

Commercial aircraft are switching rapidly to all-digital displays. The whole idea is there is a lot of redundancy built in.

 

I appreciate the nostalgic value of these old dials and in Lockon they are superbly rendered, but this is all aviation history and no longer 21st century combat.

 

Have a look at what Gripen flies today:

 

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen/cockpit/cockpit.jpg

I still see dials in it, haha, so there :P

 

Basically what you are saying is that only components on the F-35 are very very very reliable and all the others are not reliable (let say others works like shit)?

 

And what is your problem with Russian planes?

 

 

BTW, Russian jet engines have not the low stall speed problem of western engines.

Im gonna be totaly honest, the russian planes have always been the most potent planes on psicological warfare among aviation fans, but everytime we have an oportunity to look under their hood to look at their equipment they always had disapointed and overrated untill that point.

Some people here are fans to it due to their natural interest to defend whats culturaly close to theirs, but most people that I have talk to outside those spheres say the Flanker is the wonder world beater, just because of their political beliefs and airshow perfomances, or because they became tired of hearing about teen F's and are much more receptive to new things.

I have met several people at my job with whom I have talked to about this subject and the most keen russian aircraft adepts are also those with the most spiced up adverse view of US "impirialism" and american people.

 

I see time again and again this bias that from my point of view is just a pesky behaviour that plages and clouds judgements.

 

I mention the poor perfomance of the Russian Aircraft weapons and I get constantly "rebuted" with the classical answer that the COBRA and thrust vectoring manuvers will dodge all western missiles as well. I come forward with historical facts and recorded numbers and I always get the sense they start ignoring anything from that moment on because no one likes to be proven wrong.

 

As far as cocpit intrumentation, all I can say is that US industries have thousands of high quality companies who do R&D with billions of dollars to spare on their Budgets. Russians do it all "in the garage" and despite admirable persistence in trying to catch up, thsoe efforts simply cant match the brute force in manpower and money the west pours in to get their stuff working, because money does make a difference.

[504Goon]

Have a look at what Gripen flies today:

 

http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen/cockpit/cockpit.jpg

 

OMG! T3h pilot doesn't have any legs!!

[TucksonSonny]

I still see dials in it, haha, so there :P

As far as cocpit intrumentation, all I can say is that US industries have thousands of high quality companies who do R&D with billions of dollars to spare on their Budgets. Russians do it all "in the garage" and despite admirable persistence in trying to catch up,.

 

I don’t know in what age you still live but anyway Barco is a company from Belgium and they do MFD’s for Russia too :P .

(Some time ago a major contract was signed to deliver their mfd technology for Russian jets ;) )

 

 

http://www.airforce-technology.com/contractors/cockpit/barco/barco2.html

 

 

BTW, Barco has been contracted to provide advanced avionics technology for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Panoramic Cockpit Display (PCD).

Of course it will be reliable components ;)

 

http://www.barco.com/aerospace/en/references/references.asp?ref=3209

[vistrel]

I still see dials in it, haha, so there :P

 

 

Im gonna be totaly honest, the russian planes have always been the most potent planes on psicological warfare among aviation fans, but everytime we have an oportunity to look under their hood to look at their equipment they always had disapointed and overrated untill that point.

Some people here are fans to it due to their natural interest to defend whats culturaly close to theirs, but most people that I have talk to outside those spheres say the Flanker is the wonder world beater, just because of their political beliefs and airshow perfomances, or because they became tired of hearing about teen F's and are much more receptive to new things.

I have met several people at my job with whom I have talked to about this subject and the most keen russian aircraft adepts are also those with the most spiced up adverse view of US "impirialism" and american people.

 

I see time again and again this bias that from my point of view is just a pesky behaviour that plages and clouds judgements.

 

I mention the poor perfomance of the Russian Aircraft weapons and I get constantly "rebuted" with the classical answer that the COBRA and thrust vectoring manuvers will dodge all western missiles as well. I come forward with historical facts and recorded numbers and I always get the sense they start ignoring anything from that moment on because no one likes to be proven wrong.

 

As far as cocpit intrumentation, all I can say is that US industries have thousands of high quality companies who do R&D with billions of dollars to spare on their Budgets. Russians do it all "in the garage" and despite admirable persistence in trying to catch up, thsoe efforts simply cant match the brute force in manpower and money the west pours in to get their stuff working, because money does make a difference.

 

I kind of agree with your post. Russian budget is certainly no match for what US R&D department gets. However, russian planes are not that bad. They performed very good in Korean War, and excellently served indians in various Indo-Pakistan wars. The problem with not so good combat record of russian planes is that russian planes were designed for soviet doctrine which is not compatible with poor countries who don't have adequate military capabilities to create a comprehensive air superiority system. Education and training is also a big problem in those countries. For example, in US in order to get in pilot training program one has to have a college degree.

[tflash]

I don’t know in what age you still live but anyway Barco is a company from Belgium and they do MFD’s for Russia too :P .

(Some time ago a major contract was signed to deliver their mfd technology for Russian jets ;) )

 

 

http://www.airforce-technology.com/contractors/cockpit/barco/barco2.html

 

 

BTW, Barco has been contracted to provide advanced avionics technology for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Panoramic Cockpit Display (PCD).

Of course it will be reliable components ;)

 

http://www.barco.com/aerospace/en/references/references.asp?ref=3209

 

 

 

Man, this is really what we need at home, we could do the magic LUA-script export trick and get these superb displays to work in Lockon! They're not selling these on e-Bay yet though, I suppose?

[ViperEagle]

Anyone who discounts Russian aircraft wholesale is a fool who needs to be told to STFU. Russian engines are very reliable at slow speeds, but trade off engine life, you cant have your cake and eat it too sometimes.

 

And when your area is threatened by a potentially very unstable (Chavez) person, I would want a big stick nearby too.

[TucksonSonny]

Anyone who discounts Russian aircraft wholesale is a fool who needs to be told to STFU. Russian engines are very reliable at slow speeds, but trade off engine life, you cant have your cake and eat it too sometimes.

 

And when your area is threatened by a potentially very unstable (Chavez) person, I would want a big stick nearby too.

 

Chavez is just protecting his oil-reserves.

I think we all know who is threatening these reserves.:D

[TucksonSonny]

Man, this is really what we need at home, we could do the magic LUA-script export trick and get these superb displays to work in Lockon! They're not selling these on e-Bay yet though, I suppose?

 

But I think you don’t need a 30G resistant mfd at home or do you :D

[leafer]

Chavez is just protecting his oil-reserves.

I think we all know who is threatening these reserves.:D

 

HAHA

 

Funny how people dissed Chavez as a nut job and whatnot, but always failed to mention the.... Ooh well, here's not the place for that.

 

Anyway, Pilotasso, sounded like you got a hard on for anything made in U.S.A. Not that I care one way or the other, I couldn't care less about who's better than who.

[VVanks]

lol, those 17inch LCDs are sure a looker.

 

Wonder what the pilot does when he's bored and lonely.

 

In flight .. "movies".

[Andrew_McP]

http://www.alide.com.br/noticias/su35_01/su35_10.jpg

 

Oh dear. Now I need a cold shower before looking at any of the other pictures.

 

Andrew McP

[Pilotasso]

HAHA

 

Funny how people dissed Chavez as a nut job and whatnot, but always failed to mention the.... Ooh well, here's not the place for that.

 

The "Shrub" has been so much dissed that its getting old. Chavez is the new kid (idiot) on the block and is still "in" for dissing :D

 

HAHA

Anyway, Pilotasso, sounded like you got a hard on for anything made in U.S.A. Not that I care one way or the other, I couldn't care less about who's better than who.

Your distorting things a bit arent you? Just because I trust certain hardware more than others Im suddenly politicaly oriented? Thats precisely what I have been combating in the forums all the time.

 

I have been defending European hardware VS certain US "wise guys" over at F-16.net. I Dont think I can be accused of bias.

 

And Id like to reply to all the other Posts here claiming that Im explicity dissing the current russian planes or that we should all be afraid of them:

Do you understand what we are talking about? It is a Su-35 with AESA and with French avionics. (Even the eurofighter have to fear this stuff)

I just don’t understand why they need this kind of air superiority jet in that peaceful region.

 

About the 8000 hours (wait and see before you got 8000 hours)

How many of these 1 engine jets will crash in the first 5 year? (I am talking about your F-16)

There is a reason why all new jets are twin engines (except that eeeuh FAG-35 indeed)

 

I think we in Belgium have lost already +30 of the F-16's (how about that?)

 

First of all why should the Eurofighter be afraid of it? I have to point out again you can have a marvelous piece of kit for airshows but with obsolete missiles your "bottlenecked" by them. Furthermore the EF2000 has been designed picturing a far more deadly Su-37 in mind.

So you lost 30+ F-16's for airframes almost 30 years old. My Country has had them since 1994 and we only lost one and it wasnt a planes failiure (true reasons are classified). Had you bought Su-30's they would have become scrap along time ago.

[Weta43]

Pilotasso has a point about Russian aircraft reliability - you hardly ever see old russian military hardware that's still operational with countries that don't have state of the art maintenance facilities.

 

The E-5 prototype of the MiG-21 was first flown in 1955 and made its first public appearance during the Soviet Aviation Day display at Moscow's Tushino Airport in June 1956. The Indian Air Force has been one of the largest users of the MiG-21 since its initial employment of the plane in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. That war witnessed the first supersonic air combat in the subcontinent when an Indian MiG-21 shot down a PAF F-104 Starfighter.[5] The MiGs played an important role in air combat, ensuring an aerial superiority that ultimately resulted in Pakistan's defeat in just a fortnight. It was also used as late as 1999 in the Kargil War, with mixed results.[citation needed] The MiG-21's last known kill took place in 1999 during the Atlantique Incident when two MiG-21 aircraft of the Indian Air Force shot down a Breguet Atlantique reconnaissance aircraft of the Pakistani Navy, claiming that the Pakistani aircraft violated Indian airspace.[6] Upgraded MiG-21 'Bison' aircraft reportedly performed well against F-15 and F-16s of the USAF during Indo-US joint air exercises, surprising American pilots with its capabilities (2004 - 49 years after the prototype first flew).

[Trident]

Furthermore the EF2000 has been designed picturing a far more deadly Su-37 in mind.

 

At the time when the Eurofighter was conceived the Su-37 designation, if it existed at all, referred to a separate canard/delta design that was not based on the Flanker. The Su-37 as we know it today only flew 2 years after the first Typhoon prototype. A generic 'improved' Flanker was used as the yardstick during the Typhoon development, without even specifying exactly how it was improved. The Typhoon won't automatically be better just because they said so. Mind you, I do think it has advantages, but given the likely difference in price 'better' needs to be defined :)

 

Besides, I consider the new Su-35 a lot more potent than the Su-37, to be honest. Its radar is an improved variant of that found on the Su-37 with modern COTS electronics and since it seems to be based on the original Flanker airframe it should have a better thrust/weight ratio (same engine thrust of 142,5kN).

[vistrel]

First of all why should the Eurofighter be afraid of it? I have to point out again you can have a marvelous piece of kit for airshows but with obsolete missiles your "bottlenecked" by them. Furthermore the EF2000 has been designed picturing a far more deadly Su-37 in mind.

So you lost 30+ F-16's for airframes almost 30 years old. My Country has had them since 1994 and we only lost one and it wasnt a planes failiure (true reasons are classified). Had you bought Su-30's they would have become scrap along time ago.

 

haha, another one of your biased posts :megalol:

 

here's some info on EF2000 for you

 

DEFECTS with the RAF’s new Ј43 million Eurofighter mean it has an "unacceptable" risk of crashing, a leaked report claimed last night.

 

The problems are said to mean the jet cannot fly in clouds, or perform "dynamic" combat manoeuvres without a second pilot on board.

 

 

Problems with the computer systems on board the Eurofighter jet, signed into service with the RAF less than two weeks ago, could cause a "catastrophic" failure in flight, according to a confidential Ministry of Defence report leaked to former BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan.

 

The report contained the findings and recommendations of test pilots who had flown the jet for eight months. They concluded that the problems are so bad that the plane should not be used for complex manoeuvres, such as those in aerial combat, and should not fly in cloud without a second, experienced, pilot on board.

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=594322004

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/25/mod_leak/

 

And what about obsolete missiles are your talking about ? As far as I know, R77 is as capable if not better than Aim-120C. And the new upgraded version of R77 is in the works.

[Pilotasso]

haha, another one of your biased posts :megalol:

 

here's some info on EF2000 for you

 

So it has a few problems its a new design. There were assembly mismatch problems at factory, possibly derived from the fact its manufactured in several different plants before its put toguether. Its nothing derived from the design itself and will naturaly be Ironed out. You have to put aside IOC problems from Operational problems. I was aware of this along time ago, and if its not resolved by now it will eventualy. The article says it has been put in service 2 weeks before, and as such its already old article. I would take the flight software problem with a grain of salt, because journalists are not suposed to hold the results of classified software debug, wich can be donne in a few weeks anyway.

 

And what about obsolete missiles are your talking about ? As far as I know, R77 is as capable if not better than Aim-120C. And the new upgraded version of R77 is in the works.

 

LEt GGTharos and Alfa read this an theyll tell you with due sources how "recent" and "updated" the R-77 actualy is and what the designers themselves think about its perfomance. I wont fight this war alone. It will get us into the trenches and then we all get stuck on an inpass. :D

 

On a final note My country flies F-16, and doesnt, nor will ever operate Eurofighters. Furthermore I cant be accused of bias without running into contradiction because I have been defending designs from serveral other nations (US french and Gernan/UK) at the same time but mine, I dont care about politics at all. So there :P

[vistrel]

So it has a few problems its a new design. There were assembly mismatch problems at factory, possibly derived from the dact its manufactured in several different plants before its put toguether. Its nothing derived from the design itself and will naturaly Ironed out. You have to put aside IOC problems from Operational problems. I was aware of this along time ago, and if its not resolved by now it will eventualy.

 

And I can tell the same way about Su-30s that some of first built models had problems but are now better. I'd like you to tell about russian poorly built planes to operators of 30-40 yr old airplanes like Mig-21 that still get it up in the air.

 

 

LEt GGTharos and Alfa read this an theyll tell you with due sources how "recent" and "updated" the R-77 actualy is and what the designers themselves think about its perfomance. I wont fight this war alone. It will get us into the trenches and then we all get stuck on an inpass. :D

 

Yes, I'd like to hear that, and with reliable sources please. Otherwise, I will consider it a BS (not a black shark).