LOCERF Mod

[S77th-GOYA]

The LOCERF Mod is a replacement meinit.xml file that enables all flyable planes to coexist in opposing coalitions. Additionally, it enables all ground forces to be in opposing coalitions. It does not edit any existing files in a LOMAC installation. It is a ModMan package that when installed, backs up the existing meinit file and two graphics files (that will make it plainly apparent that the mod is installed), and replaces them with the LOCERF mod files. It is easily, quickly and completely uninstallable through ModMan. The existing countries in the meinit file are not changed in any way. The mod works by adding "countries" to the meinit file. For example, "RF Russia Red", "RF Russia Blue", "RF USA Red", etc. New flags have been added to represent the added RF countries.

 

The reason for the LOCERF Mod is that the Su-33, A-10 and some ground forces can only be placed in one coalition with the default meinit file. The mod will eliminate the unfortunate occurance of some pilots being forced to fly a plane that is not their main ride. Many of us feel most comfortable in a certain aircraft and will not perform to the best of our abilities if unable to fly that aircraft. I believe that everyone should be able to bring their "A Game" to RedFlag. This enables everyone to fly their main ride regardless of which coalition they are assigned.

 

Using an alternate meinit file is something that is not to be taken lightly and that is the main reason for this post. I wanted to make sure that everyone understands what the mod does and doesn't do. This is a pared down version of the LomacLeague Mod made by S77th-Dante that has been time tested by many of us in the community. I personally have had the LL Mod installed for years and have flown online with it with absolutely no problems. So have the rest of the S77th and very likely many other members of the community.

 

I expect some will resist any changes to their installation and I would like to hear from those that would not like to see this mod utilized for RedFlag and discuss the reasons. Please believe me, I was reluctant to install it for the first time and I understand why some may be hesitant. Hopefully, we can all come to an agreement and get the most out of RedFlag for all of us.

[Fudd]

I want to open this topic up for discussion. Please post your thoughts about this. I also want to point out that I have used this mod, and unistalled it, (using modman) without any problems.

 

Due to the time constraints we are not going to use this for mission 2, however if the community gets on board with this mod, I would like to see it used in the future.

 

Side Note: In order to help me continue red flag and honor the request for having a 4 week turnaround between missions, I have brought on a team of moderators to assist me. 3Sqn_Fudd and S77th Goya are now part of the moderating staff. They will be posting on my behalf about issues that pertain to red flag.

 

S!

 

159th_Fudd

[S77th-GOYA]

This is not a thread for ultimatums. It is a thread for discussion.

 

If you don't trust ModMan to replace the backed up meinit file, a copy of the default meinit file can be included in the mod or you can back it up yourself.

 

As "overthinking" and "just fly the damn thing like we did last time", last time we had pilots forced out of their main rides and we can easily avoid that in the future. To ignore it would be "underthinking".

[Maximus]

I do not support this idea of mod allowing all planes on any of coalations.

 

it is best to leave original lockon FC installed, and that's it.

[Fudd]

I do not support this idea of mod allowing all planes on any of coalations.

 

it is best to leave original lockon FC installed, and that's it.

 

Thank you for your input Drac. Your position on this is noted.

[Woodstock]

I´m pro-mod because of the benefits and because of being a happy LL-Mod user for many years without a problem ever.

For me it would also not be neccessary to build a new LOCERF-Mod, just use what is there and proven and make the LL Mod patch status for the exercise.

MHO

[Grimes]

I guess the real question is is how many players absolutely positively have to fly a specific bird? We all have our favorite a/c but a great many of us at least have to be pretty good in another a/c. We could simply ask each pilot to provide a first and 2nd preference and sort from there.

 

I understand it would be much easier from a mission builder and organizer perspective to use this. However, I think there should be at least a few things making the sides different in terms of a/c usage.

[Fudd]

Keeping it simple has always been the goal. Less working parts, the less likely it is to break. But like many other situations, we are also striving for perfection.

 

Because this is a community exercise, often times we are going to illicit help and suggestions from the community. Afterall this exercise is designed to serve everyone.

 

Please help us by first and foremost being polite. It will keep me in diplomatic mood and from telling everyone to go f**k off and die.

 

The problem was addressed last time that certain people wanted to fly certain aircraft. The point of suggesting this mod was to satisfy that request without having to break up squads and force people to fly a blue or red force all the time. See it for what it is, post your polite comments and move on. We will continue to take the suggestions and use our best judgement so that this exercise continues to be enjoyable for all

 

THANKS!

[Laud]

For me Ukrainia on blue side would be enough as my Su-27 would then be present at both sides! :)

 

Using the LL-mod would also be o.k. for me...

[S77th-GOYA]

It wasn't an ultimatum, it's was a statement. I suggest you get a thicker skin. Goya, it's not just the ME INIT file you're talking about adding. You asked me to "remake" the main GUI screen for this too.

There are two different graphics files and I mentioned them in my first post. They will immediately let the user know if the mod is installed or not upon opening LOMAC. I did ask if you could improve the file that I prepared but I don't see any relevance to this discussion. Arguing the definition of ultimatum and my skin thickness are also pointless.

 

I've been in several leagues/ladders and invariably someone will join the game and wonder why he can't select something he should be able to select. Then he'll be the guy that missed that you have to install a mod. This happens all the time whether it be mods or as in the case of FPS, maps. Then you're waiting for that guy and another one comes along who didn't get the message.

 

This is a valid point and it would be important to make any use of any mod a well publicized point.

 

I understand someone wanting to fly their favorite ride, but sometimes they'e needed elsewhere. I'd have preferred to fly a/a last time, but we needed someone who was good at ground attack. Luckily I fly the 25T so that someone else could have an A10 slot. The only planes that are "unique" to each side is the A10 and the Su33. I think that it should stay that way. We all navigated off of one waypoint (bullseye) so those that want to fly something fast and maneuverable for Red should fly the '25A. It carries a bunch of weapons, it's easy to fly (and w/one wp easy to nav) and it's fast.

 

One question: Why, in your opinion, should only one coalition have the Su-33 or A-10 available to them? Do you think that a pilot that spends his time flying the A-10 should be expected to fly the Su-25 with equal effectiveness?

 

Ok, two questions.

 

If a squadron needs more pilots for a specific plane, that is a question of strategy, not a limit to the exercise.

[S77th-GOYA]

Because that's how it is IRL? Or are we deciding to throw as much realism as possible out the window?

Without the mod, we will have the US, Ukraine and Georgia against Russia and Israel. Are we really that concerned with the real world?

 

I think one pilot who only flies one plane limits his effectiveness in his squad. When I first got Flaming Cliffs I only bought it because I wanted the fixes for the fast movers. I wasn't interested in either of the Frogfoot a/c. Imagine my surprise a year later when I found out they're as much fun to fly as the A10. Instead of focusing on the extreme minority of pilots who only fly one a/c, the focus should lie on putting '29's, '15's and '27's on both sides. More people fly the fast movers by a factor of 8 (if HL is any indicator).

 

A10's on any side but blue is unrealistic. IMHO it takes away from what Red Flag (the first one or the real one) is supposed to be. In keeping with the spirit of RF1 I flew what slot was needed. This was a result of what Jabog and RVE and what slots they were able to fill. We had a bunch of guys available so I got "stuck" with ground pounding. That's what it's about, squads working together. I did what was best not only for our squad, but for blue. The proposed ME INIT changes will reinforce the "me" mentality.

 

Your opinions on how a member of a squadron should best contribute to his squadron does not answer the question put to you.

If you want to compare to the real Red Flag, how many real pilots do you suppose were prohibited from flying their normal ride? I suppose you have the same reluctance to put F-15s on opposite sides?

[BSR-SARGE]

mods

 

I have heard from a lot of ole' timers of Lock-on, that putting this All Aircraft mod of LOMAC on might cause me to have to reinstall LOCK_ON. Why will I take a chance of messing up this flight simm just because someone doesn't understand that you can't please everyone all the time. Red Flag 1 was a great success because the planning members of both sides did the best with what they had to work with. If we attempt to change the arena in any way, it will also change the effectiveness it had on all the participants. Blue was declared the winner by points and missions accomplished, but all of the pilots that flew on Red or Blue accomplished a greater mission of community participation. I'm sure it was in thougtfulness of the community that Goya sugguested this LL mod, but it has the potential of creating more problems for some. I missed Red Flag because of a Family function and plan to make the next one, but will not sign up if I have to install any such mods.

[S77th-GOYA]

Would 3Squadron be opposed to always having the US and Russia on the same coalition?

[Fudd]

What we will do for this second mission is have the following coalitions.

 

RedFor: Russia and Israel

 

BlueFor: USA, Ukraine and Georgia.

 

For subsequent missions I will entertain the idea of having Russia and the US be on the same coalition to allow the Su-33's and A-10's to be on the same side.

 

Those of you who dont like that idea.... of course, post away!

[S77th-ReOrdain]

Just curious here. Rugg, do you use Modman at all? The reason I ask is because you seem more concerned about what others can't successfully do than you are about what it would do to your machine. I'm also curious to here from anyone who says a mod installed through modman screwed up there game after they uninstalled it through modman. In particular those that have had their machines hosed by a LL Mod install (even though this is not Lomac League).

[Maximus]

it will not be sucessfully if we are forced to use the mods for all of virtual pilot to fly on squadmatch.

 

some are not computer literature, they dont even know what modman is, and they maybe rather to leave it alone as original lockon FC. many many reason,

 

I Have nothing against you goya, just keep in mind that everyone is not in same knowledge level as you.

[S77th-GOYA]

it will not be sucessfully if we are forced to use the mods for all of virtual pilot to fly on squadmatch.

 

some are not computer literature, they dont even know what modman is, and they maybe rather to leave it alone as original lockon FC. many many reason,

 

I Have nothing against you goya, just keep in mind that everyone is not in same knowledge level as you.

 

 

If anyone in this community isn't aware of the benfits of ModMan, they definitely should be told. Regardless of this mod and regardless of RedFlag. You've given me a good idea for a poll in the main forum.

[S77th-GOYA]

Where's the "I choose to use it at my discretion" option? ;)

 

If you use it, the answer is "Yes."

[Maximus]

If anyone in this community isn't aware of the benfits of ModMan, they definitely should be told. Regardless of this mod and regardless of RedFlag. You've given me a good idea for a poll in the main forum.

 

yes some are afraid to use it who knows, beside, it is too much headache for everyone to install and play and uninstall. there is also various of pc problems etc. it will not work out easily believe me.

 

my gut feeling the poll will probably say no at most. but give a try and see the result :-)

 

Drac

[S77th-Dante]

for one to really understand what this is about, you need to realy LOVE flying one of these planes.

 

Mig-29 A (German)

 

Su-33

 

A-10

 

Myself i LOVE flying the SU-33, when i am not flying it, im not having as much fun and that said, if im not landing on the kuznetsov, im not having as much fun either.

 

now here is an example i wish to highlight.

 

the 159th squad is known for flying the SU-33 & su25t. its what their squad is about.

 

early on, the S77th amost exclusivly flew the SU-33.

 

for these two teams, to have a match with out anybody feeling like they are getting a raw deal flying a 27 or not enjoying themselves to the full potential by landing on some concreat slab. they could not do it with a default game.

 

now even in a situation where two teams may not need to fly a 33 , a-10 , mig-29g, tacticly, the option is there if they feel tacticly that X plane will do better at something than another.

 

as i recall there use to be a squadron wholely dedicated to flying a-10's ? isnt it unfortunate, if there was 2 teams that wholely flew a-10's they could never have a match together! one team would have to fly a su-25T, before Flaming cliffs, the choice was SU-25!!

 

perhaps that squadron isnt around anymore, would things be different if they could have had more interaction with other squadrons ?

-----------

 

the mod itself.

 

now i have seen several people have issues with lomac, and i have helped countless people. One of the bigest issues, is 1 modification to the game is not compatable with another modification.

 

i have seen people running flaming cliffs, who download and install modifications made for lomac 1.00 and that has made them incompatable with people flying flaming cliffs.

 

now i would be certin and 100% confident that GOYA FUDD etc will do everything possible to help people with any issues that arise including and not limited to creating 'special' versions of the mod for people running extra SU-25T squad skins, f-15 models etc. so i have confidence that there should be no drama's.

[Prophet]

I can fly any plane. I enjoy all the planes.

 

To me, having all planes on each side will cause IFF issues. To me, its not the mod, its having all planes on each side.

 

I say we do more to make sure people are in the plane they like. And maybe build the mission around that.

[3Sqn_Fudd]

I am always willing to try different things... I'll try this when i get back from vacation....

 

As it stands though... I'm looking forward to a Red Flag 2 with some nice simple tweaks to it ...

[S77th-Dante]

install and play and uninstall.

Drac

 

to be perfecty honest, there really should be no need to actually uninstall.

 

since the changes are small. and everything else is 'add on' there is really no need unless of course you are making modified payloads but im sure u can just 'add those' yourself again if you wanted to.

 

i personally have played with reliability and stability since 2004(ish) with the modifications on.

[S77th-ReOrdain]

The simple truth is this. Once you've installed any mod that changes the meinit.xml file, you should not put another meinit.xml modifying file on top of it. If you do, you've just altered the previously edited mod file with the new one without a means to reinstall the originals. This is the true value of Loman/Modman. It allows you to see which files you've installed that modify the originals. If you use any file/mod that changes your original game and haven't backed your originals up, you're already hosed. The creator of Modman (Skypat) does mention the necessity of backing up original files and has a site dedicated to help with the install and in the event of onforeseable situations. The one thing that is probably not stressed enough is why it is necessary to do so. I do understand that Modman is actually designed for multiple games, however, it would be nice if there was a process built into Modman that would allow Lockon users to check a box that not only stored files in the "Lock On\bazar\temp textures" folder and the "loman_backups_dont_remove" folders but also created a compressed backup of your game at time of Modman install that would allow a one click reinstall of everything to the point of when the app was first installed. But in these instances, file space would be the issue.

[S77th-Dante]

as goya said earlier in this thread.

 

the original is actually included with in the 'package' 'pre backed up' this is definatly for those people who do make mistakes.

 

that said, if you feel you would like something added to it and it is something of merit, then let goya know.