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LOCERF Mod


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I can fly any plane. I enjoy all the planes.

 

To me, having all planes on each side will cause IFF issues. To me, its not the mod, its having all planes on each side.

 

I say we do more to make sure people are in the plane they like. And maybe build the mission around that.

 

I feel similar, I don't like having the same aircraft on all the sides. Personally i prefer the Blue vs Red idea of "Red Flag", with the small exemption that Su25's are allowed on both sides if SEAD is necessary.

 

But at the same time I'm happy to go with the flow if the general populous wants to try something different.

 

Something I'd love to see is some bad weather. I've got a crap PC and using the low res cloud add mod I get great frames online in bad weather. So I'd like to see some bad weather and night missions.

3Sqn - Largest distributor of Flanker, Fulcrum and Frogfoot parts in the Black Sea Region

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Do the USA & Russia have the same aircraft? NO for that reason alone I am against it, make for more realism. Personally I like the SU33, unfortunately Blue side does not have the SU33, so therefore I must adapt, as you would have to in a REAL war situation.

 

Just my 2cents worth.

 

S! to all

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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"The Air Force decided years ago to forgo a substantial

dedicated air opposing force (aggressor squadrons). 'Red' aircraft in [uSAF]

Red Flag Exercises are now manned mostly by active-duty pilots who, with

their aircraft, are borrowed from other squadrons. These pilots receive

negative training for the time spent trying to imitate enemy tactics.

Moreover, the aircraft used are not 'dissimilar.'

 

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2003w37/msg00059.htm

 

Perhaps those asking for realism should be asking that all non-US aircraft be eliminated from our LOCERF events.

 

But then, that would be stupid, wouldn't it? LOMAC offers us the ability to go beyond reality and the LOCERF mod offers the ability to go even beyond that.

 

If someone simply doesn't want to use a different meinit, that's one thing. Claiming a desire to keep LOCERF as realistic as possible has very little merit. In fact, the reality of Red Flag is that the same planes are on both Red and Blue forces.

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Problems no more, there is a solution. The discussion about realism can go around and around. Everyone has an opinion. We can even discuss whether Lock On is a game, a simulation or training for future pilots. This computer program called "Lock On" will not allow you to pull G's, therefore look at it as you may, but if you don't want to install the mod for whatever reason, than don't install it. Others can install it and it would not affect your game, connection or cause you any worries. The only difference would be that you would be informed that the other side has A,B and C planes to fly and you have A, B and C as well. That fact should ease all the tension about whatever problems we can project that it will cause. Now if it has to be the way someone other than Fudd thinks it should be, than that's a personal issue and it should not limit anyone's decision to participate or not. We all make that choice on our own. It's just a mod, there are no illegal payloads. You put it on, you take it off - just like the 100's of other mods out there. If in the end, Fudd decides that the mod won't be used, than so be it. I for one, fly this game for the enjoyment, adreneline rush and sense of comradarie that it encourages and will continue to do it and participate in Red Flag whichever way the consensus of the community, or Fudd decides to go.

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I wil agree with you that Fudd will have the final say, as the community has already spoken about the results of the poll. RED Flag should stay Mod free for the simple reason that Red and Blue wouldn't stay red or blue if you mix it up. Red would turn purple and Blue would also turn purple. Let the planning of the commanders, the wingcommanders command skills, and the flying by the seat of your pants pilots determine the winner. If you lose it will be because the other side had a better plan and not a better Plane.

3Sqn_SARGE

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plane sets

 

Why try to fix something that's not broken. First let Red Flag run its course and see what has to be adjusted. By putting a mod in right away will only suppress the symptoms of important issues that need to be addressed. This mod might work down the road, but, then again it has the potential of screwing up the whole mission, someone's computer, or something. I would shelve this suggestion to a latter time, not forget about it, but use it when it is recognised as an addition to the experience, and not a fix all.

3Sqn_SARGE

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OK Sarge, I respect your opinion. And, it is true that the winner will be determined by good planning and even better execution. The only problem I see is that your remaining comments more support the opposite of what you say you think is best. The more similar the planes, then the more the commanders, wing commanders directives and pilot skill will come into play.

 

But nevermind that. As you stated, the community is already voicing its opinion on the matter of the mod. Personally, I also have a great deal of respect for what the community as a whole would like to see Red Flag evolve into. I have no problem with flying any of the planes in Lock On. I am probably least confident flying the F-15C, but that lack of presumed profiency won't stop me from mounting an effective attack, or defending against whatever enemy I detect on radar in the Eagle.

 

As a reminder, LOCERF Mod was presented for (3) primary reasons:

 

1. To allow as many pilots as possible to bring their "A" game (with confidence).

2. Give added flexibility (and balance) to mission designers for ground defenses.

3. Minimize the "you guys had this" and "we only had that" excuses that inevitably follow each Red Flag session.

 

We all have a favorite 1 or 2 planes. If anyone refuses to cop to that, then they're just not being honest IMO. That's not to say that everyone should be allowed to fly what they choose each mission. Comprimises must be made, and strategy will be implemented based upon what is made available. So there's no need for anyone to bring up the "the US can't fly MiGs against Iraq" arguments of realism that people want to present at their convenience to support their side of the issue. We all know that, but occasionally we need to be reminded that it is still just a "game". We do want to persue realism as much as possible, but there's a limit to that as well. If the majority of the community is comfortable with the status quo, then that's fine. Again, that's peachy, and it's how it should be. And to be clear, when it's all said and done, I don't expect to be on the losing side. :)

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red flag

 

You express your self very well and I appreciate the way you presented your side of the argument. I can see your point and it's all good. All I am saying is that if both sides could be presented as you just did, than the flames, and other comments wouldn't drown out what is more important. I'm sure both sides have very legitimate arguments and all are shooting for the highest for the community and let the challenges be in the air not in the forums. Sorry to say but I had to miss last Red Flag at last moment Family schedule change, and I will have to work next one, but Red Flag will be there on time and ready to go. I do wish all a good flight on both sides.

 

I just thought of an idea, and don't know how you would like this. How about the members who want such a Mod or other mods added to Red Flag find out from Fudd, how to set up, organize a similar mission, and run it for a trial period. It can be any size you think would be good for a trial period. This way when you and the other participants report back, and we all get to see the trackfile, you could then have a working model to present, instead of an idea. Would like to hear thoughts.

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3Sqn_SARGE

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have i heard that Russian got a A10? unrealistic. get over with the poll says the result. try again in few months later.

 

move on and get over with it.

Maximus, The only real Maximus in DCS World. :music_whistling:

 

I am not associated to viper 33 | Maximus. he is the imposter.

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have i heard that Russian got a A10?

 

We don't know what you heard. Please tell exactly what you heard and from whom. Maybe we can help you sort it out.

 

By the way, with or without the LOCERF mod, Russia does not have an A-10.

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move on, the debate is taking us to nowhere.

 

check the LOCERF mods polls, it tells us it's a big no for now, try again in few months later.

Maximus, The only real Maximus in DCS World. :music_whistling:

 

I am not associated to viper 33 | Maximus. he is the imposter.

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I just thought of an idea, and don't know how you would like this. How about the members who want such a Mod or other mods added to Red Flag find out from Fudd, how to set up, organize a similar mission, and run it for a trial period. It can be any size you think would be good for a trial period. This way when you and the other participants report back, and we all get to see the trackfile, you could then have a working model to present, instead of an idea. Would like to hear thoughts.

 

This system might be useful for future mods that seek approval from the community. However the LOCERF mod has already been time tested by it's use in its former state as the LomacLeague mod. The meinit file that is the heart of this mod has only been changed to reflect RF instead of LL in the added country names. Many, many missions have been flown using this meinit. It is not an idea it is a working, currently used mod. Testimonials to its merits have already been posted here. A track file of it in use would not play back on a machine that does not have the mod installed.

 

If anyone would like a copy of the mod to see for themselves, just PM me.

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Good post Sarge.

 

I like your suggestion, and that may happen someday. Unfortunately we've gotten to the point now that some of our participants don't even want it mentioned in a discussion.

 

As Goya has pointed out, it has been tested thoroughly over time and it works well for those people openminded enough to at least see what it's about. Fudd will ultimately decide what the future holds in terms of mission design and planning in Red Flag. But I do appreciate your receptiveness and presentation of a new idea.

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thanks

 

Thanks Rugg for posting that. Now I am getting to know more about what is going on.

 

Alot of people have computers, yet most need a tech or tech service to handle, sometimes the simplest of task. They have a computer for various reasons, and one of them is not to increase headaches or potentially bring about a nervous breakdown. Now to install this Mod and uninstall it, or even to make adjustments in any program, would necessatate the need of average or above average tech or software skills. This would only leave out maybe some of us, like me, out for fear of messing something up and having to call my son, or ask one my online buddies to help somehow. I'm familiar with some of the jargon, but miscommunication could prolong the recovery process.

 

Now after saying all that I will tell you and anyone else that tells me I have to insall a certain mod to participate on any online activity:::

Unless it is an approved patch,Modification, update, or neccessary d/l from the manufacture or software producer, I will not.

 

Now I have trusted some mods, but that has only come with the recomendation of people I know and trust. These are my trusted online friends, Ruggbutt, Locsta, Shadow, Hammersix, TeamBSR, and all of 3Sqn.

These folks have proven themselves over and over and over and over again.

 

Now the LOMAC L mod might be a good mod, but myself ,and I am going to assume here,and some others might end up with a reinstall at the wrong timeand will have to make an emergency PC recovery call.

 

This is my last post on this or any subject concerning this Mod. Thank you.

3Sqn_SARGE

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That question has already been answered here (scroll down to the 5th post):

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=23482&page=2

 

In terms of the former Lomac League mod, stability regarding it's use has been testified to here (see last post on the page):

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=23482&page=5

 

Why you chose to post a link to keep this going about a guy that clearly had problems understanding the use of Loman/Modman is pretty daunting. There are probably a hundred or so posts which express the results about folks that run into problems when they install a mod improperly. Your point is clear. It's a lot easier to just let people vote on an issue without trying to slant the matter. The community is already 2/3 against the use of the LOCERF mod. That should be enough to settle the issue.

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No surprises here but I'm not keen for the Mod, keep it default and then everyone knows what to expect.

More complexity will no doubt lead to more issues on game day and none of us want that.

I won't be in town for RF2 but wish you all the best good luck and have fun, see you all for RF3!

3Sqn_TomAce

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Unless you're going to try to tell me that LOMAC League mod isn't the LOCERF mod repackaged?

 

LomacLeague mod is NOT the LOCERF mod repackaged.

 

The two mods both enable all units on both coalitions.

 

The meinit files for both are very similar but not compatible with each other.

 

The LL mod contains about 20 files that the LOCERF mod does not.

 

The LL mod was made in both a ModMan and executable version.

 

The LL mod was made for several different versions of LOMAC.

 

The LOCERF Mod is only in a 1.12a ModMan version.

 

Talon284 was given a link (by someone named Viper) to an unknown .exe version of the LL mod.

 

Whether or not Talon284 installed it correctly or had the correct version of the mod for his installation is unknown.

 

This much is known: any problems encountered by Talon284 can in no way be attributed to the LOCERF mod, the way the LOCERF mod is installed, or the way the LOCERF mod can be uninstalled.

 

______________________________

 

Nice final post, Sarge. :smilewink:

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