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falcon_120

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Just updated to 2.5.3.21444 and it seems great so far in Rift VrR and NTTR. :thumbup:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

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I get there is an argument for realism, however it's a sim/game and my eyes don't zoom to see things further away like they do in DCS. There has to be a level of compromise.

 

There isn't an argument for that until the day we plug something directly into our visual cortex. We're viewing the game at horrible resolution on tiny monitors at very low frame rates while lacking lots of the advantages of real life (sense of direction, reflections, eyes that focus automatically etc).

 

It's a tough balancing act for sure, but it's no fun if you can't retain visual on enemy airframes.

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There isn't an argument for that until the day we plug something directly into our visual cortex. We're viewing the game at horrible resolution on tiny monitors at very low frame rates while lacking lots of the advantages of real life (sense of direction, reflections, eyes that focus automatically etc).

 

It's a tough balancing act for sure, but it's no fun if you can't retain visual on enemy airframes.

 

Sorry sir you are not following my train of thought here. If you can see something zoomed in you should be able to see it zoomed out IMO. Zooming in should at most increase detail (focus)

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Sorry sir you are not following my train of thought here. If you can see something zoomed in you should be able to see it zoomed out IMO. Zooming in should at most increase detail (focus)

 

Within reason of course :)

 

There is a big hiccup between standard res and VR/4k, what works with one doesn't work for the other. You either give standard res superhuman vision or make VR/4K blind.

 

How the LODs system works, I am not sure how easy it is, or could be to tune that based on the resolution picked, but I am going to poke around and see what I can see, no pun intended.

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Im playing on a 35inch monitor at 3440x1440 and my observations are as follow ;

 

 

 

1-further out spotting is doable

 

2-midrange is the best

 

3-closerange im blind as a bat

 

 

 

Dunno what it is but merged im dead on this resolution when i lost track.

 

 

 

In the past we had the option to increase the size and it worked better.

 

I really the spotting system is something being worked on because now like many said before me its undoable.

g8PjVMw.png

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:lol:

Thanks sir.

I think we've guessed it was a move to an intended more realistic spotting mechanic but it would be nice to hear from ED what their intentions, changes were?

:thumbup:

 

There is certainly an issue with higher res losing aircraft. Give me screenshots of what you are and are not seeing, I have VR, but not 4K, so 4k users, if you can share the differences in screenshot form, it would help for my report.

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I know that everyone is saying there was no change here however, I have been flying DCS for many years and really noticed this as well.

 

 

If there was no change then can someone explain to me how I just tested in my OpenBeta (up to date version) with an F5 using radar and my DCS Standard version (which is on the version just prior to the 8/29 update) and I can see air targets at almost twice the distance in my Standard version that is not updated with the 8/29 update? As soon as I can spot a target in OpenBeta I pause and go to F10 map and then do the exact same test in my Standard version and again, the distance between my aircraft and the enemy is almost down to half as much in the 8/29 updated version.

 

 

I have some screenshots of this but I do not have them with me at the moment. I will upload them as soon as I get a chance.


Edited by Alphazulu
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I can see air targets at almost twice the distance in my Standard version

What distance are you seeing them at and what type of aircraft?

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With attached mission, once cockpit, no TIR, no zoom, on my 4k screen, pause at mission start and stay pause:

 

  1. With 1080p settings in fullscreen, I see 6 or 7 aircrafts in front of me
  2. With 4k settings in fullscreen, I see 1 or 2 aircrafts in front of me

The problem is that DCS only display a pixel for the aircraft and a pixel in 4k is very small... DCS should take care of DPI of the screen to display the screen size of distant aircraft. :)

 

 

Last patch on OB at this time was used for this test, so it does not change anything for 4k screens.

test_visu4k.miz


Edited by DArt
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I couldn’t run the test mission because I don’t have the F-18 but this kind of test you can do with any mission. I can see large fighters like a MiG at about 7 miles without using the zoom view (I’m at about 70% FOV) but that’s an ideal condition ie against the sky in profile.

Using the zoom view is more realistic and with that another fighter appears at about 9 miles, very small dot but moving. Again only easily seen against the sky or clouds.

So I don’t feel that this is unrealistic in any way. Those ranges about correlate with the real world ability to see other contacts.

I can see enemy fighters launch plumes at 19 miles (wide FOV)

I’m using a 28” UHD monitor, maximum graphic settings and 2x AA DCS Stable version 2.5.2.20785

 

Trying to repeat this test in 1080p on a 2160p screen is difficult to evaluate because upscale 1080p appears quite blurry on a UHD monitor. It seems about the same but the resolution is so poor it’s hard to say. 1080p looks best on a native 1080p screen.


Edited by SharpeXB

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Not sure if it has been linked before, but this showed up today in my YouTube suggestions:

 

I found it to be quite interesting!

Spoiler

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The airplanes dissapear too easily into the ground clutter when merged. This is close range. Regardless of how spotting works at range, it shouldn't be this hard keeping track of a bogey when you are merged with them.

 

Now that we have a unified 2.5.X version of DCS for the forseeable future, ED should really dedicate some resources to solving this issue once and for all.

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I couldn’t run the test mission because I don’t have the F-18 but this kind of test you can do with any mission. I can see large fighters like a MiG at about 7 miles without using the zoom view (I’m at about 70% FOV) but that’s an ideal condition ie against the sky in profile.

Using the zoom view is more realistic and with that another fighter appears at about 9 miles, very small dot but moving. Again only easily seen against the sky or clouds.

So I don’t feel that this is unrealistic in any way. Those ranges about correlate with the real world ability to see other contacts.

I can see enemy fighters launch plumes at 19 miles (wide FOV)

I’m using a 28” UHD monitor, maximum graphic settings and 2x AA DCS Stable version 2.5.2.20785

 

Trying to repeat this test in 1080p on a 2160p screen is difficult to evaluate because upscale 1080p appears quite blurry on a UHD monitor. It seems about the same but the resolution is so poor it’s hard to say. 1080p looks best on a native 1080p screen.

 

 

The problem with me with this kind of statement is maybe it is true and maybe that is more realistic. However.....this should be a conversation for when ED actually says, "Yes, we are changing this". Half of the people on here are talking about if it was actually changed or not and the other half are talking about if it should be changed. I'm not going to get into if it is more realistic or not if ED is still over here saying "we did not change anything".

 

For people that don't see a change, the truth is it is probably just your equipment. DCS is a simulator and provides different results on different equipment. I know a bunch of guys that have always invested in high end equipment and yes, we have always had better visibility in DCS. This has been confirmed time and time again in multiplayer flights when other guys on chat can not see targets until they reach a certain distance and other guys can always see them before. That is the way it is with a computer simulator and variable setting and the variations in equipment. So, for people with that high end equipment the change in visibility is very noticeable. Again, I'm not going to personally get into the argument of weather this is correct to real life or not unless ED actually says, Yes we wanted to change this and did it on purpose and it was not just an accidental side effect of all the changes to create the new label system. Like I said in my last post, rather then comparing what you see in the current version and arguing about if it changed or not, just simply run up standard DCS version that is not updated with the 8/29 update and then run up the latest OpenBeta in the same test mission and the difference is extremely easy to notice.


Edited by Alphazulu
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There are too many variables in hardware and practice between players for this type of discussion to ever be resolved. ED should just do what they believe is correct and playable and just stick with that. We all know basic facts like how fighter size aircraft should not be visible at 50 miles etc. ED knows that too. This type of discussion will continue forever and perhaps ED shouldn’t just constantly let themselves be swayed by anecdotes.

Most observation posted here aren’t describing an individuals graphic settings, hardware or gameplay style so they aren’t useful. ED can test this for themselves and arrive at what needs to be done.

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The airplanes dissapear too easily into the ground clutter when merged. This is close range. Regardless of how spotting works at range, it shouldn't be this hard keeping track of a bogey when you are merged with them.

 

Now that we have a unified 2.5.X version of DCS for the forseeable future, ED should really dedicate some resources to solving this issue once and for all.

 

Yes, for me the same. In "dot-range" it maybe fine or not. But what me really frustrates is the visibility in dogfight range.

 

I was in a Heli dogfight with a friend some days ago. And we talked us to each other as we werent't able to see each other circling around the same waypoint.

It was ridiculous. I was able to see him in his KA-50 as a small dot against the sky, mistral was already in lock range, i shot and the wreck hit the ground a few meters in front of me, so i have to think we were very close as i was able to spot him. That's really weird.

 

This keeps me really away from doing serious attempts in online pvp :cry:

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I have never experienced another aircraft just vanishing within visual range. Are you sure you’re just not losing track of the bogey? That happens to me all the time but it’s not a deficiency with DCS. Yes better color depth and contrast etc could help. But the fact that graphics etc can constantly improve does not mean the current game is broken.

All the player anecdotes don’t help ED because they don’t describe hardware, settings, play style.

This type of discussion just goes in circles.

 

This is something that would truly help with aircraft “disappearing” into the background

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=173243&highlight=HDR


Edited by SharpeXB

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There is certainly an issue with higher res losing aircraft. Give me screenshots of what you are and are not seeing, I have VR, but not 4K, so 4k users, if you can share the differences in screenshot form, it would help for my report.

 

Sorry Nineline I missed this post.

Whats crazy is I'm not even running 4k VR I'm on the rift witch is the worst res possible in the universe!! lol

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Sorry Nineline I missed this post.

Whats crazy is I'm not even running 4k VR I'm on the rift witch is the worst res possible in the universe!! lol

I get kind of mystified when people say this kind of thing. Surely the Rift res is 2160x1280 which is a higher than a lot of people here are running DCS on a standard monitor! Many seem to run at 1080p.

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I haven't played in about a month and today I noticed a big difference with planes/objects not rendering as far out as usual.

 

 

2560x1440 monitor resolution.

 

 

Even contrails where popping in and out after a certain distance zoomed in.

 

 

This also make using Targeting Pods very hard, much of the targets aren't rendered until you are within distance.

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I get kind of mystified when people say this kind of thing. Surely the Rift res is 2160x1280 which is a higher than a lot of people here are running DCS on a standard monitor! Many seem to run at 1080p.

 

I think he means of the high-res devices that are having this issue, the Rift is on the lower end. Not to mention VR adds other things to the mix when it comes to spotting.

 

All, I am upgrading to 4k this week so I can better test. I am only concerned about rendering within realistic distances though, so give me examples to test and I will test and report. Contrails is a good one, targets through targeting pods as well. I will check zoom and such as well.

 

Any and all things you have issues happen, let me know. The pixel issue between standard and 4k affects labels as well, so I will get that reported with this.

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I think he means of the high-res devices that are having this issue, the Rift is on the lower end. Not to mention VR adds other things to the mix when it comes to spotting.

 

All, I am upgrading to 4k this week so I can better test. I am only concerned about rendering within realistic distances though, so give me examples to test and I will test and report. Contrails is a good one, targets through targeting pods as well. I will check zoom and such as well.

 

Any and all things you have issues happen, let me know. The pixel issue between standard and 4k affects labels as well, so I will get that reported with this.

 

 

 

 

Don't leave out 2560 x 1440 peoples too plaese. :)

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When we still had the model enlargement system it didn't scale with res and had less than ideal results across different resolutions. I remember someone in the community modded the system so it would scale correctly. It gave much better results, and according to him it was only a few extra lines of code.

I don't test for bugs, but when I do I do it in production.

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