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F14 IFF ability?


OnlyforDCS

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With all the hype surrounding my favorite bird ever coming to DCS world I kind of forgot that I have no idea how IFF works in the F14, or whether it can IFF at all?

 

Can it's radar pick up friendly transponders?

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The F-14 does have IFF, but it's not the NCTR like the F-15 has.

 

The lack of a fully updated and advanced IFF is a big reason the F-14 was kept out of the fight in Desert Storm for the most part.

 

Heya Racefuel, im unfamiliar with the "NCTR" acronym. Can you elaborate on what it is and how the F14s IFF differs from it's "younger" brother's?

 

Is F15s IFF less prone to false positives or what? I thought the F14 was kept out of the fight in Desert Storm because of the difference in the Navy's and Air Force's rules of engagement, as well as tasking I.E. it had nothing to do with the ability of the airframe. Anyway with full AWACS coverage the issue becomes void...


Edited by OnlyforDCS

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The F-14 does have IFF, but it's not the NCTR like the F-15 has.

 

The lack of a fully updated and advanced IFF is a big reason the F-14 was kept out of the fight in Desert Storm for the most part.

 

You mean: because USAF wanted to keep all AA victories for her ? :lol:

 

IFF and NCTR are different systems.

 

Question would be: does F-14 has IFF mode 4 interrogator ?

 

NCTR is “Non Cooperative Target Recognition”.

 

IFF needs a correct answer from friendly transponder to identify friendly contact.

But IFF transponder can fail and lead to friendly fire (like Patriot Vs Tornado GR4 in 2003).

 

NCTR analyses the target’s echo to identify the plane type (like MiG-29).

Most known feature is Doppler analysis to identify the type of engine. But it’s probably not the only trick.

 

Usually it needs to concentrate a lot of energy on target (like STT or narrow TWS), so the drawback is it isn’t discrete.

 

In DCS you have it on F-15C and Mirage 2000C (but it was a post Gulf War update).


Edited by jojo

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What jojo said.

 

Mode 4 is useful in that a positive return will declare a contact as friendly (eliminating it as a target), but a lack of a reply only indicates that a contact is a bogie. At that point, engaging the bogie depends entirely on ROE, and ODS ROE required that a contact be declared or identified as bandit. This is where NCTR comes in handy.

 

The F-14 does have the ability to Visually ID a target BVR using the TCS (the camera on the chin), but it requires STT to slave the TCS to the contact. At that point, you've given up the element of surprise and if the contact is a bandit it will likely turn tail.

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So in short the F14's IFF can identify a friendly, in TWS for example, it's just not 100% reliable?

 

So that automatically leads to my next question, is this modelled in the game? Sounds like it could be a fun little disadvantage if thats the case :)

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May I formally apologise in advance to all friendlies that I inadvertently kill with my AIM-54s launches lol.

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So in short the F14's IFF can identify a friendly, in TWS for example, it's just not 100% reliable?

 

So that automatically leads to my next question, is this modelled in the game? Sounds like it could be a fun little disadvantage if thats the case :)

 

IFF interrogation process can be partially modelled.

On Mirage 2000 you must:

- turn on I terrogator

- press a button to perform interrogation

 

It will simulate friendly answer if bogey belong to your coalition.

 

What isn’t simulated to date is:

- IFF interrogation code: a proper air defense fighter can challenge Mode 1/ 2/ 3 & 4.

- IFF transponder operations: on/ off and code 1/ 2/ 3 settings. Code 4 is loaded by ground crew, with potentially 2 keys. Pilot can select A or B key, but can’t change the Mode 4 code.

 

I think ED said they will improve IFF simulation in the wake of DCS Hornet.

Since this is cross module system, it must be taken care of by ED.

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May I formally apologise in advance to all friendlies that I inadvertently kill with my AIM-54s launches lol.

 

 

I hope you get banned from every server you play on from intentional team kills, since that's what will really be, your either not paying attention or maybe not fully understanding what IFF is telling you since maybe your can't be bothered to read the manual or watch F-14 guides that show you who's friend or foe:thumbup:.

 

 

 

I see players in FA/18 do the same thing, IMO if you don't fully understand the systems in the aircraft you should not be on a combat server, it's not fair to the players to put the work in to learn the jet inside and out.

 

 

 

Sure IFF is not perfect and to no fault of the player mistakes happen, because of server lag, some software bug etc... that's understandable.

 

 

 

I just hope Heatblur address this so its either black or white

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You get IFF responses on the DDD but you have to sort contacts from the DDD to representation in the TID to assign them hostile/friendly roles there.

 

_afaik_ might be needing grain of salt but thats what i remember.

So there is a possbile human error component in the f14.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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I hope you get banned from every server you play on from intentional team kills, since that's what will really be, your either not paying attention or maybe not fully understanding what IFF is telling you since maybe your can't be bothered to read the manual or watch F-14 guides that show you who's friend or foe:thumbup:.

 

 

 

I see players in FA/18 do the same thing, IMO if you don't fully understand the systems in the aircraft you should not be on a combat server, it's not fair to the players to put the work in to learn the jet inside and out.

 

 

 

Sure IFF is not perfect and to no fault of the player mistakes happen, because of server lag, some software bug etc... that's understandable.

 

 

 

I just hope Heatblur address this so its either black or white

 

 

To be fair the IFF is pretty sketchy at the moment...I've hard a target hard locked (STT) in the Hornet and even at only about 14 miles it was still giving me a hostile diamond and "shoot" indicators...only to have it turn into a box at 9 miles.

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There were a small amount of AWG-9 sets that had NCTR but it was determined to be too costly and unnecessary in a blue water intercept, so only a few sets had it (40?). This was in the early 80s- I don't know if the sets were for select squadrons or if they were pulled from the inventory and modded back to standard AWG-9 sets.

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According to a recent HB answer the RIO has to correlate the IFF returns with the radar returns on the raw display and then tag each contact as friend/foe on the digital display. Jester will do that for you, or a human player will need to.

 

Now we're talking! Very interesting, thanks! :)

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The Eagle has NCTR, EWWS and IFF as its three forms of on-board EID.

 

I understand thaf the EID matrix during Desert Storm required at least two of these to be returning a hostile indication in order for the pilot to take a shot (contrary to an earlier post from someone else, MSIP F-15s had NCTR in 1990).

 

It was because the F-14 had only one of these that it didn't get the front row seat it otherwise deserved during the conflict.

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ROE says they have to shoot first before you can engage, at least that was how they did it on our first visit to Libya with the U.S.S J.F.K. CV-67.

But once they did shoot the Tomcats claws came out...it was a short fight.

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