Popping a lot of tires on take-off

[NineLine]

Please include tracks where you think it is excessive and I can look and ask if it's incorrect. Thanks.

 

And if you lose the bet, no I won't ban you mvsgas.

[NineLine]

I should add, when I first started using the PFM, I popped tires on the first couple take offs, I underestimated how fast the MiG got up to speed, once I got the hang of it though, it was no issue, so I dont know if its an issue with the FM, or just that we are adapting from our habits with the SFM.

[draconus]

Funny story: I recently wanted to try the G version. Popping tires at 220 (!!!) and some crazy behaving take offs. What da?! Until it came to me after 3rd time: it's in knots on the HUD :doh:

[Stealth29U.K]

You're missing the point.

 

The tires on this aircraft (designed to operate from rough airstrips) are exploding on smooth tarmac at 180mph.

 

I like to do a loop right after lift off like Brendon O'Brien did when had his ride in the 29 ( it was on Discovery channel years ago in a show called "Flightline"), I like a high rotation speed to pull it off, its hard to do it at the moment with the tyres blowing. im sure it will get updated though in good time.

[Reflected]

I noticed this flying other jet aircraft in DCS. Tires seem to have a tendency to pop at quite low speeds. IF, however, you trim the plane nose up, the tires become a lot more resistant, and will not pop at the same speed. This workaround works fine for me, I don't know if it's a bug or not. I don't have the 29, but I have this with the F5E and the MIG21.

[mvsgas]

I like to do a loop right after lift off like Brendon O'Brien did when had his ride in the 29 ( it was on Discovery channel years ago in a show called "Flightline"), I like a high rotation speed to pull it off, its hard to do it at the moment with the tyres blowing. im sure it will get updated though in good time.

 

It does not need to be updated, I can do a loop right after take off no problem.

[ATTACH]196399[/ATTACH]

 

 

I fly this module every day, online and single player, and I am still yet to blow a tire once.

[draconus]

I noticed this flying other jet aircraft in DCS. Tires seem to have a tendency to pop at quite low speeds. IF, however, you trim the plane nose up, the tires become a lot more resistant, and will not pop at the same speed. This workaround works fine for me, I don't know if it's a bug or not. I don't have the 29, but I have this with the F5E and the MIG21.

It's not a workaround nor is it magic trick. It's just a simple physics calculations being done in the sim. When you trim nose up or just keep the stick a little aft during take off you reduce the weight/pressure/load on the tires thus lessen the friction force and save the tires in the process. It's not optional - it's a proper way to take off.

[Ironhand]

Could also mean this:

 

:) That would be a waterlogged taxiway. He's also traveling at a slow taxi speed. Though I have seen an Su-25 taking off from a dirt runway (in a video). Then again, that's a completely different animal from the MiG-29.

 

 

Lixma 06,

 

Are you still having tire issues? with this aircraft? Hopefully not. As others have mentioned, rotating at the proper speed makes a difference even when you're stressing the tires:

 

 

Prior to the start of the video I had been making donuts on the taxiway as well to see if that made a difference. Didn't seem to.

[Lixma 06]

IH, I haven't been able to fly for about a week or so but I'm absorbing the advice.

 

I did a test though just to see how fast I could go without attempting to take-off -- 400kph -- and then the tires started exploding.

 

I've also seen a lot of crazy bouncing on landing - this is from Cap's stream....

 

e: damn time-code won't work - go to 28mins

 

 

I've done this a lot.

 

When the 29 bounces it really starts bouncing. Maybe it's realistic/PFM but I've not encountered this in any of the other modules I own.

[rrohde]

Bouncing is easily avoided by landing within the correct parameters in terms of speed - 300 kp/h over the THD, and 290 or a little less at touch down, with a little flare at the end for good measure.

[mvsgas]

It has to be something else causing the tire to blow. Maybe the installation. Are you using FC3 or stand alone?

 

I use FC3 in the openbeta, ver 2.5.3.22877. I crated a mission is the Caucasus, at 41°C with a huge cross wind. I took a Mig-29G and made it as heavy as I could. I bounce, cart wheel and flip. I broke both wing and the landing gear. I skidded sideways, went into the grass and I still could not get the tires to pop.

 

[ATTACH]196461[/ATTACH]

Edited October 22, 2018 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

Some screens

[ATTACH]196462[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]196463[/ATTACH]

[mvsgas]

 

For the time code to work enter ?start= the number of seconds. Try the video now on this post.

[Ironhand]

IH, I haven't been able to fly for about a week or so but I'm absorbing the advice.

 

I did a test though just to see how fast I could go without attempting to take-off -- 400kph -- and then the tires started exploding...

:) Good. A lot better than 250kph...

 

I've also seen a lot of crazy bouncing on landing - this is from Cap's stream....

 

...

 

I've done this a lot.

 

When the 29 bounces it really starts bouncing. Maybe it's realistic/PFM but I've not encountered this in any of the other modules I own.

That's because our MiG-29 was conceived in the womb of a rubber ball. She'll outgrow it someday...maybe.

 

As others have noted, the proper landing technique precludes that. OTOH, that shouldn't happen with a bad landing either. I wonder if it has more to do with damage modeling than anything else. You might bounce the first time but, if you didn't simply pancake the landing gear, things would defintely break in a way that there wouldn't be a 2nd and 3rd one.

[Lixma 06]

Thanks for the tips everyone - when I get back in her I'll see if I can capture it in a track or a video.

 

I've got a couple of tracks of the tires popping from the original vids I posted which I'll throw up when I get a chance - plus one unintentional but spectacular cobra followed by a reverse cobra followed by a fiery crash. Lovely.

[Ironhand]

Thanks for the tips everyone - when I get back in her I'll see if I can capture it in a track or a video.

 

I've got a couple of tracks of the tires popping from the original vids I posted which I'll throw up when I get a chance - plus one unintentional but spectacular cobra followed by a reverse cobra followed by a fiery crash. Lovely.

Do post those tracks from the vids. Be intersting to see if they're still popping. There's been an update since then. Notes don't reflect a "fix" but you never know, especially since it seems you have a more recent flight in which you got up to 390+ before things went bad.

[Lixma 06]

It has to be something else causing the tire to blow. Maybe the installation. Are you using FC3 or stand alone?

 

I use FC3 in the openbeta, ver 2.5.3.22877. I crated a mission is the Caucasus, at 41°C with a huge cross wind. I took a Mig-29G and made it as heavy as I could. I bounce, cart wheel and flip. I broke both wing and the landing gear. I skidded sideways, went into the grass and I still could not get the tires to pop.

 

[ATTACH]196461[/ATTACH]

 

Sorry, missed your post.

 

Standalone - no mods or any funny stuff; totally vanilla. Like I said earlier I'll post the original tracks when I get a sec & run a few more runway tests to see how it's behaving.

 

Also, despite the bouncing thing I can't remember popping a tire on touchdown - and God knows I've hit the runway hard and much faster than the speeds in the original take-off videos.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Lixma 06

[Stealth29U.K]

It does not need to be updated, I can do a loop right after take off no problem.

[ATTACH]196399[/ATTACH]

 

 

I fly this module every day, online and single player, and I am still yet to blow a tire once.

 

Yeah i,ve only attempted it once so far, it worked but I rotated too soon and ended up way too close to the ground on the way down,il get some practice in :thumbup:

[Lixma 06]

Attached are the tracks (popped 1,2) for the pair of videos at the top of the thread.

 

The third one is interesting - the test was just to see what speed I could reach without trying to take off. When I originally recorded it the climax involved all three tires popping at around 400/450kph followed by some serious bouncing that lead gracefully into a cobra, a reverse cobra, and then a large explosion.

 

But I've re-watched it a couple of times just now and the mad bounce that initiated the death-cobras is no longer happening - so I wonder if something got tweaked with the recent update (?)

popped 1.trk

popped 2.trk

popped 3.trk

Edited October 26, 2018 by Lixma 06

[Mars Exulte]

It's not a workaround nor is it magic trick. It's just a simple physics calculations being done in the sim. When you trim nose up or just keep the stick a little aft during take off you reduce the weight/pressure/load on the tires thus lessen the friction force and save the tires in the process. It's not optional - it's a proper way to take off.

 

Oi... that's genius, yet so obvious. I really need to start doing that.

 

That said, yeah, variable weight via control forces will do that. If you aren't perfectly straight on the stick, or there's a crosswind, one wheel will be loaded more than the other, etc. It becomes amplified the faster you go. Blown tires I've observed are 99% of the time due to how the pilot is taking off/landing, and whether any lateral forces are being applied.

[rrohde]

This video I found (and posted here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3669773&postcount=1952) is really useful to see how it's done in real life. One of the best in-cockpit clips I've ever seen - bonus points for being the MiG-29.

 

It also shows nicely how perfect ED nailed the look of the cockpit in DCS with the recent update.

[Mars Exulte]

We don't have those rubber jiggly things, do we? Why not? ED WTF WRONG WITH U? We need those jiggly things for immersion! ;)