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HOTAS mapping in RL?


Ragnar65

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Hi guys,

 

 

does anyone know a source where to i can find the reallife functions of the buttpons on stick and throttle? I´d like to map my gear as near to the original as possible...

X-56 HOTAS, TFRP Pedals

Modules: F-5E, FC3, F/A-18C, Mirage 2000 C, AV-8BNA, FW-190 A-8, F-16C Viper

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I've always looked at this image for reference; even though it's from the Su-35/57, the general layout is similar (see attached).

mRk4wSO.jpg.d7e0dc29175b869a711604e33cf8ac18.jpg

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Here's a quick reference based on DCS visuals:

c5314d23b1085d0117292f0ea34dfc4e.png

b9cbdee1a5b0c01b2c8d6254c23394ab.png

 

Does the 'Break-lock' correspond to 'Return to Search' in DCS controls?

Does the 'Target Distance' correspond to 'Predicted Target Range Increase/Decrease' for the current module, and is it correctly implemented?

(I'm not sure about those two and I didn't get the time to check yet)


Edited by Bourrinopathe

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Thanx alot, guys! Exactly, what i´ve been looking for! :-)

X-56 HOTAS, TFRP Pedals

Modules: F-5E, FC3, F/A-18C, Mirage 2000 C, AV-8BNA, FW-190 A-8, F-16C Viper

SystemSpecs: AMD A8-6600K (4x3,9GHz), 16 GB RAM, NVidia GeForce GTX1070 8GB, WIN10 64bit

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Well, this is really helpful as I've always had a problem with mapping FC3 aircrafts. Now I have a question. What is the "Run-up brake"? Can someone explain? Not sure If I need it on my stick, instead of something more important.

 

I think it's called "starting brake" in game and is a max pressure brake (2x what you get from full normal wheel brake I believe). It should be able to hold the plane from rolling even on full AB. I assume it's for short take-off. I haven't mapped it on the Mig-29 because I don't see the point, but I use it all the time on the Su-33 for carrier take-off.

VC

 

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... I´d like to map my gear as near to the original as possible...

 

Hello,

 

I used to do the same when I was starting with DCS, but as I added more aircraft's to my collection I found that it was hard to remember the controls each time I changed from one aircraft to another,

 

So, after a couple of years I changed my HOTAS designs, in order to put the most common functions always on the same hats & buttons ... currently I have my main template like this:

 

Stick:

- Trigger = Gun Fire
- S1 = 
- S2 = Weapon Release
- S3 = Shift Modifier
- S4 = Wheelbrakes
- Trigger + S3 + S4 during 1 sec. = Eject
- Hat 1 = Trim & Snapviews
- Hat 2 = Weapon Control
- Hat 3 = Sensor Control
- Hat 4 = CounterMeasures / Kneeboard

Throttle:
- T7 & T8 = Three Position Switch
- Hat T2-3-4-5 = Communications & Engine Control
- Range Knob = Radar Axis (Zoom or Elevation)
- Antenna Knob = Rudder Axis
- T6 = 
- T10 = Airbrakes 
- T9 = Flaps & Landing Gear
- Micro Stick = Sensor Cursor Control / Sensor orientation
- T1 = Lock / Unlock

I've still some variations from aircraft to aircraft, as some dont have sensors for example, but it has eased considerably the burden of having to remember which button does what :)

 

I'm telling you this so that you can take it into consideration when designing your own Hotas bindings.

 

Best regards

 

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Hello,

 

I used to do the same when I was starting with DCS, but as I added more aircraft's to my collection I found that it was hard to remember the controls each time I changed from one aircraft to another,

 

So, after a couple of years I changed my HOTAS designs, in order to put the most common functions always on the same hats & buttons ... currently I have my main template like this:

 

Stick:

- Trigger = Gun Fire
- S1 = 
- S2 = Weapon Release
- S3 = Shift Modifier
- S4 = Wheelbrakes
- Trigger + S3 + S4 during 1 sec. = Eject
- Hat 1 = Trim & Snapviews
- Hat 2 = Weapon Control
- Hat 3 = Sensor Control
- Hat 4 = CounterMeasures / Kneeboard

Throttle:
- T7 & T8 = Three Position Switch
- Hat T2-3-4-5 = Communications & Engine Control
- Range Knob = Radar Axis (Zoom or Elevation)
- Antenna Knob = Rudder Axis
- T6 = 
- T10 = Airbrakes 
- T9 = Flaps & Landing Gear
- Micro Stick = Sensor Cursor Control / Sensor orientation
- T1 = Lock / Unlock

I've still some variations from aircraft to aircraft, as some dont have sensors for example, but it has eased considerably the burden of having to remember which button does what :)

 

I'm telling you this so that you can take it into consideration when designing your own Hotas bindings.

 

 

Best regards

 

 

Thanx buddy,

great input. The idea off having the mapping as far as possible the same for the different aircrafts sounds good, i´m flying F/A-18, F-5 and the russian birds depending on my current mood...

X-56 HOTAS, TFRP Pedals

Modules: F-5E, FC3, F/A-18C, Mirage 2000 C, AV-8BNA, FW-190 A-8, F-16C Viper

SystemSpecs: AMD A8-6600K (4x3,9GHz), 16 GB RAM, NVidia GeForce GTX1070 8GB, WIN10 64bit

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Thanx buddy, great input...

 

Hi,

 

Just finished debugging my Hotas config for the MiG-29 and tought that even if we have diverse Hotas models, the selection and grouping of the aircraft controls can serve as examples ... so I wanted to show you how mine looks:

 

RYEoQWJ.jpg

 

Tried to leave the most often used commands just a keypress away, while the less used ones require to also press a modifier button (button S3 on my stick).

 

Cheers!

 

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Based to this: https://www.fxp.co.il/showthread.php?t=84620

 

 

The Fulcrum Weapon System (integrated opto-electronic navigation/sighting system) may be in theory one of the world's best tactical avionics suites for fighter aircraft because of its sensor mix, but in practice it has a long way to go. In the interest of putting more "iniative" in the hands of their pilots, Russian engineers designed the MiG-29 as a "Semi-Automatic" weapon system with many "Manual" sub-modes that require pilot actions. After evolving the MiG-23 Flogger into a fully "automated" system, run via data link from the ground GCI station, it was clear that neither the proper tactical situation awareness (SA) nor the big-picture synergism could be maintained without the active participation of the pilot and his formation partners.

 

Using the Russian terminology, the MiG-29 has three main "sighting channels", or sensor systems, to search, acquire, and track airborne targets via radar and laser energy, infra-red, optical passive homing, and visual queuing by the pilot. The MiG-29 weapon system operates in two major "command modes", semi-automatic and manaul, which are determined by the amount of pre-mission planning and off-board support given to the aircraft and pilot during the mission. The ground/air based early warning, surveillance, command, and intelligence systems all feed the MiG-29 through the LAZUR data link system and directs the pilot via "Fulfill Commands" to take all the necessary actions to complete his misison. The LAZUR takes over the control of many of the difficult weapon system management tasks such as antenna/scan selection, emitter activation, proper intercept headings/altitudes to the target, weapon arming, etc. The MiG-29 also has "internally generated" automatic modes run through the auto-pilot and navigation computer for return to base options and improving aircraft stability.

 

And

 

The MiG-29 Control Stick:

Sitting in the cockpit, with the stick in front of you, the control column appears rather normal but actually represents Russian fighter tradition that goes back to the MiG-15. The stick is higher then normal, that is the pilot holds on at his chest level, not low between his legs where he could rest his arm on his right thigh. The high stick requires great strength over long flights and most people who have shaken hands with Russian pilots understand this point.

 

Across the top of the stick are the traditional two buttons and the centered Trim Knob. On the left the "AUTOPILOT" Engage Switch and on the right a purely Russian "FLIGHT-LEVELING" switch. Actually the Grumman A-6 Intruder may be the only Western aircraft with such a switch. The Autopilot Switch engages the AFCS and in certain Navigation Modes actually commands the aircraft into a pre-designated flight profile, usually a return to base mode. It does not however, link the MiG-29 up to complete coupled GCI commanded flight profile via the onboard datalink as the MiG-23 does. There is an emergency AFCS release "beaver-tail" lever-switch at plams reach on the front of the stick column.

 

On the left side of the upper stick, optimal to the pilot's thumb, is the slew control for the radar/IRST acquisition "box". In later aircraft it also slews the optical seeker head of weapons to lock-up on their targets. In conjunction with this acquisition slew switch is a Lock-Up - Designation Switch on the Throttle.

 

The small white button immediately to its right located on the center of the stick is the "INTERROGATE" switch. This allows the pilot to manually use the SRZ-15 interrogator on any target locked-up by the radar to determine if it is a friendly aircraft. Friendly aircraft will respond with their SRO-2 transponder in the proper mode and code. The result of a confirmed friendly response is a "S" symbol centered at the top of the HUD and Radar Scope and a disable of any automatic firing pulses to the onboard missiles. This safety interface can be overridden by the pilot by using the "MANUAL PREP" switch action on the Main Armament Control Panel.

 

 

Here's a quick reference based on DCS visuals:

c5314d23b1085d0117292f0ea34dfc4e.png

Does the 'Break-lock' correspond to 'Return to Search' in DCS controls?

 

No, it should be IFF button. Once you lock the target, you press the small white button below the trim and it will initiate IFF to the target, if the target is replied as friend then all firing capabilities are disabled, unless you switch to override mode in weapons panel.

 

 

Does the 'Target Distance' correspond to 'Predicted Target Range Increase/Decrease' for the current module, and is it correctly implemented?

 

That is what I would think about as when you are using just a optical mode, you will need to define the target range via other means if not through datalink etc.

 

(I'm not sure about those two and I didn't get the time to check yet)

 

The "Predicted Target Range" is when your target is jamming you out or you are using optical tracker and no datalink to give you the triangulation nor ranging. So you can get the firing solution with it.

 

 

And by that source, the RED top left button is "Autopilot ENGAGE" and not "Autopilot DISENGAGE". What is interesting thing considering that it is first time I see it being "Engage" instead "Reset".

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No, it should be IFF button. Once you lock the target, you press the small white button below the trim and it will initiate IFF to the target, if the target is replied as friend then all firing capabilities are disabled, unless you switch to override mode in weapons panel.

 

It should not. Bourrinopathe's reference picture is correct.

 

The white button is the "break lock" or as the russian caption says "сброс"(reset).

 

And by that source, the RED top left button is "Autopilot ENGAGE" and not "Autopilot DISENGAGE". What is interesting thing considering that it is first time I see it being "Engage" instead "Reset".

 

The source is wrong. There is no single "autopilot" to engage, but several autopilot modes, which are activated by respective buttons on a separate panel. The red button on the stick disengages any selected autopilot mode. There is also an autopilot "cut-out" lever on the back of the stick, which while pressed, momentarily disengages the selected autopilot mode.

 

Edit: thats the one entitled "AP override" in the picture :) .


Edited by Alfa
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JJ

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That is what I would think about as when you are using just a optical mode, you will need to define the target range via other means if not through datalink etc.

 

The "Predicted Target Range" is when your target is jamming you out or you are using optical tracker and no datalink to give you the triangulation nor ranging. So you can get the firing solution with it.

 

How would you use the provided target range in the optical mode?

 

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How would you use the provided target range in the optical mode?

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3271324&postcount=3

 

IIRC that when you adjusted the estimated range for the target that was jamming, you could get the launch authorization as it changed the missile ranging calculation as well.

 

But that does make more sense to have the - and + values for the estimated ranging as it makes it very easy then.

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Why would the IFF button be labeled "Reset" in the real aircraft and listed as break-lock in the flight manual?

 

That is interesting question that came up to my mind, that why ain't the IFF automatic in such case. The original text is not in English and as he says, there are those who knows better that could come from translation error.

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  • 1 month later...
In that Flicker image, it is indeed slightly different. It appears to be 'запрос' which is translating as 'query', implying an IFF function possibly.

 

Well you got better eyes than me - I cannot make out anything from that image.

 

But yes it might well be "запрос".

 

In the Luftwaffe manual, there is a reference to that button, where it says "запрос(сброс)" with the following description in German: "Luft-luft-abfrage(nicht genutzt) und lösen", which I would translate to something like: "Air-to-air query(not used) and reset".

 

So it might have been intended for an alternative IFF function, but as the description says, its not being used. But there are plenty of photos of the MiG-29 stick, where(as in my image) it only says "сброс".

JJ

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I cannot find information about slider that's marked as "target distance". No official documents has it marked that way.

 

As stated in my post I'm not sure about this one as I also couldn't find any official info.

I extrapolated the function from the Su-27 throttle as they're very similar and pilots usually learn how to use standardized controls for efficiency (and versatility) purposes.

 

The GAF T.O. 1F-MIG29-1 does not show any wheel on the throttle schematics.

 

15c40942451dc14d9f932422c41577a1.jpg

 

It might be possible to find some clues in the Пособие по боевому применению document ("Combat Employment") but I didn't studied it thoroughly (yet?) - so I only know ranges are (obviously) mentioned repeatedly.

 

By the way, if anyone has the 450 pages version for the GAF T.O. 1F-MIG29-1, I'd be very interested in adding it to my collection :thumbup:

 

----

 

The only info I found that would suggest that dented wheel is there is that low quality drawing from a Bosnian (?) MiG-29B document:

180532961a21b3c0f46d27a9cf451a0d.jpg


Edited by Bourrinopathe

/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

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