Jump to content

Mission 06 - blue vs red AI question


Recommended Posts

Hey guys, for all of those who finshed the campaign or made it past mission 6 - did you find that the fight was inbalanced and that the red side did unreasonably well? I’ve has reports that it happens a lot, to the point where completing the mission becomes impossible. I would be grateful for your feedback so that I can balance things out. Thanks @ thanks to Accipiter for all feedback so far!

ce535d_9d347b62819c4372b3c485a4f95d2004~mv2.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I just got to mission 6 and played it once. My DCS experience is limited to your default Mirage 2000C campaign in Georgia, which went really well.

 

My plan of action was to send off the F-16A MLUs (Metal 01) to fight the 2 F-14s, the Mirage flight to combat the F-4Es and my wingman to fight 'bandits' in general. I let the decision on the enagagement distances to the AI.

 

The results were quite appalling :noexpression: The initial salvo of AIM-54s and AIM-7Ms (Ms in Iranian service?) threw Metal and Chevy flights in disarray and allowed the Iranians, including the F-5Es, to close in fast. My own plane seemed to have been the primary focus of the F-14s' AIM-54 missiles and I spent most of the time evading these. My flight was annihilated quickly and my plane received a surprise AIM-9 hit from a F-5E that the missile warning system had not detected.

 

The survivors were 1 Mirage 2000C that had strayed from the battlefield, 3 F-4Es with some missiles left on their rails and 1 F-5E.

 

Overall, the amount of enemy aircraft was quite overwhelming given that:

1) I am still a beginner and cannot compensate for my side's deficiencies through sheer skill. I was mostly busy dodging missiles and retrieving some sense of situational awareness in between. I play with labels off.

2) The Mirage 2000C is a poor BVR platform and carries few missiles. The Mirage flight was simply swamped by the F-4Es raining a steady amount of AIM-7Ms on them and then their numerical inferiority in the ensuing furball with the F-4Es and F-5Es.

 

Looking through the results afterwards showed that the main killers were actually the F-5Es that had managed to sneak in under the hailstorm of AIM-7s and AIM-54s!

 

My suggestion would be to eliminate the F-5Es and downgrade the AIM-7M to the AIM-7F (or worse) on the Iranian F-4Es.

 

I am going to retry the mission tomorrow with the F-16s attacking the F-4Es, probably joined by the Max' Chevy flight and me and my wingman going for the F-14s. I may turn on labels (dots) to aid me.

 

 

EDIT: Monster flight did nothing and remained on station.


Edited by Cyrus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the report. it seems that both F-4s and F-5s got a huge capabilities boost in one of the last updates, I’ve heard the same about this mission from others as well. i’ll Look into it and try to find a good solution, this mission by no means is intended to be such difficult.

ce535d_9d347b62819c4372b3c485a4f95d2004~mv2.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Second attempt at the mission.

 

First, a change of tactics. Previously, the main problem was the F-4Es disrupting Chevy and Metal flights by raining AIM-7s on them so I gave different orders.

 

1) Metal (F-16) was to attack the F-4Es (and thus disrupt their flight and prevent them from realizing their BVR advantage vs the M-2000C that had ruined my first attempt at this mission)

2) Max' Chevy 04 was to attack the F-14s.

3) Me and my wingman were positioned North of Chevy 4 and attacked in a ESE direction against the F-4s and F-5s.

[4) I turned on labels]

5) Monster (GR4) flight was ordered to join into the fray later on when two F-5s popped up.

 

I left the engagement distances to the AI.

 

Totally different results!

 

The F-16s' AIM-120Cs wrecked havoc on the F-4Es and nearly totally prevented the F-4s from conducting a good BVR fight. Hence, the M-2000Cs (Chevy 4) survived the initial stage and, together with Metal 01, ended up in a furball with the F-4s and F-5s. This did not end well for the Iranian aircraft.

 

With this new approach the F-14s were not engaged immediately and were able to fire all their AIM-154s and AIM-7s at leisure from a distance before ending up in WVR with only their AIM-9s still on board. This resulted in two F-16s going down following AIM-154 hits.

 

With the Super 530Ds I managed to destroy one F-5E, damage one F-4 which then attempted to run from the fight, shoot down one F-14 using cannon (!) and damage the second F-14 with a Magic II (left engine and left vertical stabilizer gone, but still flying and trying to run for home).

 

Survivors:

- All six Mirages!

- One F-16A MLU

- All GR4s (one of which shot down a F-5E)

 

All Iranian planes were downed. 100% success!

 

So, different tactics and the randomness of the DCS universe produced an entirely different outcome. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Just to bring this up again.

 

I've tried mission 6 many many times. And I'm continually being shot out of the sky with little warning, usually by the tigers with an aim-9. They seem to find me a few minutes in. It's such a pain to have to fly all the way out hampered by channel switching for awacs and wingman.

 

In the latest attempt I hadn't even been able to get a single lock on a target in TWS before being shot down by tigers.

 

Is it meant to be this hard?

Lyndiman

AMD Ryzen 3600 / RTX 2070 Super / 32G Ram / Win10 / TrackIR 5 Pro / Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS & MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. The Tigers never were such a big problem, at least when I tried this mission many times. Perhaps something changed in the AI logic and they have become even more uber-pilots. I will see what skills they have, but I do believe it is pretty low... or perhaps give them worse missiles. Thanks for the report and sorry to hear that you have trouble with this one, to me it looks like some change in DCS logic...

ce535d_9d347b62819c4372b3c485a4f95d2004~mv2.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just tried again and after a long dog fight I was blown out of the sky after every other blue force jet was shot down.

 

Blue force was decimated by the less skilled red force. Almost all the phantoms were still alive despite the F-16's being told to go after them. They launched on the tigers instead.

 

Even after shooting down 3 enemies I can't get past this.

Lyndiman

AMD Ryzen 3600 / RTX 2070 Super / 32G Ram / Win10 / TrackIR 5 Pro / Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS & MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok - have completed this mission after a week of frustration.

 

For once the F-16's actually did a decent job of taking on the Phantoms. Normally they are only firing about 3 amraams total before entering a dogfight and getting overwhelmed.

 

One major issue seems to be that the F-4's are carrying 8 missiles each. So with about 8 of them plus the other flights they simply overwhelm the blue flights.

 

In the end half the blue force were shot down. The last of the enemies had to be dispatched with guns because we were out of missiles.

 

Also the AI flights that come back in the other direction land and crash at the parking ramp.

 

More aircraft ran out of fuel - like the other missions in the campaign, the AI need to be given unlimited fuel or something.

Lyndiman

AMD Ryzen 3600 / RTX 2070 Super / 32G Ram / Win10 / TrackIR 5 Pro / Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS & MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Wichid.

 

First of all - I know how frustrating it must be to have to repeat the same mission several times, sorry for trouble. Either AIM-7s got an boost or Phantoms are better, I never (nor any of the beta testers) had any trouble with this mission, if anything it felt too easy...

 

I will take some of the missiles away from the Phantoms and check their skills setting.

 

As for the AI - unfortunately I have almost NO control over them. Nor can I give them unlimited fuel. It kills the immersion, I know, but it is completely out of my hands.. something you'd have to choose not to notice :)

 

Again, sorry for trouble and hope that the rest goes smoothly!

ce535d_9d347b62819c4372b3c485a4f95d2004~mv2.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah no worries - I understand that versions make things inconsistent.

 

Also note from my previous post that Berger actually parks his aircraft and crashes with his wingman and they eject - something the player sees when coming back and parking.

 

You might be able to change the parking allocation to fix that.

Lyndiman

AMD Ryzen 3600 / RTX 2070 Super / 32G Ram / Win10 / TrackIR 5 Pro / Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS & MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hello,

 

same report : Berger and wingman collides on tarmac at base.

 

Still not managed to come back alive from Mission 6. Will try another tactic on next try, all my flights get slaughtered by the sheer amount of missiles that are thrown at us by red side.

 

Still a big thumb up for the campaign, very immersive and fun :)

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I have played this mission 3 times, and in each red dominates over blue. I replayed the missions with Tacview and see that F-16's barrage of AMRAAM's miss all F-4's with not a single hit every time... It is very frustrating to play the same mission 4 times and not be able to progress through it. I think I will edit the campaign file to skip over this mission. I cannot find any other way..

 

I would really doubt that any air force would go into such a suicide mission in any way. If you have 50% chances of surviving you definitely did not plan the mission right...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply! I wonder if some kind of artificial disadvantage can be introduced to red if blue falls behind.

 

Besides this, I have been really enjoying the campaign though. So thank you so much for creating such a high quality campaign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...