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Mig 29 fuel management


guimcdo

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If it's like the Frogfoot, load up with full fuel. Look at your fuel gauge, the lights lit up when you turn on power are the drop tanks. It doesn't know the difference between 'empty' and 'not there'.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Hello All,

 

I don't know the remaining fuel quantity in the external tank, how to know that ? It will be useful to drop it !

 

Thanks

 

You can't in the sim - unfortunately the functionality of the fuel gauge leaves something to be desired, but I guess its down to the simple system's implementation of FC3.

 

There are no sensors in the external tanks, so only the internal fuel can be directly meassured. But in the real jet, there is a switch on the fuel gauge which selects whether the tape indicator shows remaining fuel as meassured(internal only) or predicted(both internal and external) - in the case of the latter, the fuel computer calculates the remaining fuel based on the total initial amount and how much fuel has been consumed(flow meter function).

 

In the sim this switch is not functional and the fuel gauge is set to only show the remaining fuel in the internal tanks.

 

But as others have said, there is a row of lamps on the side of the fuel gauge, which indicate when individual tanks are empty - the top one is for the CL tank.

 

Another problem is that for RL MiG-29 versions capable of carrying wing drop tanks, there is a different fuel gauge with higher indication capacity and an extra lamp for the wing tank empty indication. This currently doesn't exist in the sim although both the "MiG-29A" and MiG-29S are depicted with the ability to carry wing tanks.

JJ

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But as others have said, there is a row of lamps on the side of the fuel gauge, which indicate when individual tanks are empty - the top one is for the CL tank.

 

Another problem is that for RL MiG-29 versions capable of carrying wing drop tanks, there is a different fuel gauge with higher indication capacity and an extra lamp for the wing tank empty indication. This currently doesn't exist in the sim although both the "MiG-29A" and MiG-29S are depicted with the ability to carry wing tanks.

 

The wing tanks will get used first presumably, so once the CL tank is indicated empty, it will mean the others are as well, right? The jettison fuel tanks command probably dumps all three anyway so if they added the extra light for the wing tanks, they should also separate their jettison procedure.

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In the manual is explained, look at the left side of your fuel gauge, the two top light are for external tanks.

 

No only the top light - for the CL tank.

 

As mentioned in my post above, only the fuel gauge from the MiG-29(9-12) is depicted in the sim and the 9-12 does not have the ability to carry wing drop tanks unless modified or the purpose.

 

The MiG-29S(and MiG-29 when modified) have a different fuel gauge with an extra empty-lamp(second from the top) for the external wing tanks.

 

Unfortunately we can only drop the 3 at the same time!

 

Yes the RL jet has separate buttons.

JJ

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The wing tanks will get used first presumably, so once the CL tank is indicated empty, it will mean the others are as well, right?

 

No the CL tank is emptied first.

 

The sequence is as indicated by the order of the empty lamps(on the 9-13 gauge) - i.e.:

 

- external CL tank

- external wing drop tanks

- internal wing tanks

- internal tank no. 3

- internal tank no. 1

 

Internal tank no. 2 is the engine feed tank(and obviously emptied last) and has no empty lamp - only voice warning when 550 kg remains(Bingo warning).

 

The jettison fuel tanks command probably dumps all three anyway so if they added the extra light for the wing tanks, they should also separate their jettison procedure.

 

Not understood. In the real jet, there is a button on the back of the flight stick for jettison of the CL tank. In the "MiG-29G" modified to carry wing drop tanks, there is a (safed)button on the "WCS panel(below the AOA/G meter) for jettison of the wing drop tanks.


Edited by Alfa

JJ

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No the CL tank is emptied first.

 

Ah, that's interesting. I guess that's logical if they're presumably directly linked to the internal wing tanks (and those go after the CL tank) and as you've said, there's no indication of when they're actually empty, just a rough assumption and there's probably no way for the fuel management system to cut them off anyway.

 

If they were integrated in a smarter way, it would make sense to have them go first as I presume they impose bigger restrictions than the CL tank.

 

Not understood. In the real jet, there is a button on the back of the flight stick for jettison of the CL tank. In the "MiG-29G" modified to carry wing drop tanks, there is a (safed)button on the "WCS panel(below the AOA/G meter) for jettison of the wing drop tanks.

 

I meant in the game, I just presumed all three get dumped at the same time (once you press CTRL-W), but I'll have to try it out.


Edited by Dudikoff

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Ah, that's interesting. I guess that's logical if they're presumably directly linked to the internal wing tanks (and those go after the CL tank)..

 

Correct :) .

 

But its a little more complicated - in rough terms the fuel system is set up so that it starts by:

 

a). draining fuel from tank- 1 into the feedertank(no. 2)

 

b). once the level in tank 1 drops to a certain level, the system starts to compensate by pumping fuel into it from tank-3..

 

c)...which in turn is compensated for by pumping fuel into tank-3 from the internal wing tanks.

 

d). ..this contiues until the internal wing tanks are empty.

 

e). ..from then on the process involves balancing out depletion between tank 1 and 3 - tank 3 empties first followed by 1 and finally 2(feedertank).

 

The external CL tank connects to internal tank 1, so when carried, point b). in the above process doesn't occur until the CL tank is empty.

 

The external wing drop tanks connect to the internal wing tanks, so point d). in the above process doesn't occur until the wing drop tanks are empty.

 

and as you've said, there's no indication of when they're actually empty, just a rough assumption and there's probably no way for the fuel management system to cut them off anyway.

 

But there is an indication when the external wing tanks are empty Dudikoff - but only on the 9.13 gauge(has an extra empty-lamp for the purpose). The problem is that this gauge doesn't exist in the sim although the (RL)MiG-29S has it and the MiG-29(9.12) should have it if modified for wing drop tanks(which is how its depicted in the sim).

 

Edit: I think I know what you mean now - while remaining quantity is only calculated for external tanks, the empty caption is activated by a flow sensor. The purpose of this is exactly to cut off transfer from external tanks as soon as they are empty to prevent compressed air from entering the fuel system. In reality the lamp is not even an "empty" caption as such - but rather an "end of transfer", which can also occur e.g. if flying inverted.

 

If they were integrated in a smarter way, it would make sense to have them go first as I presume they impose bigger restrictions than the CL tank.

 

Yes it would and yes the wing drop tanks impose bigger restrictions than the CL tank. The reason is quite simply that the fuel system of the original 9.12 was designed to only have the ability to carry the CL tank. The introduction of wing drop tanks with the 9.13 was just sort of a "hack".

 

I meant in the game, I just presumed all three get dumped at the same time (once you press CTRL-W), but I'll have to try it out.

 

Yeah I think they do.


Edited by Alfa

JJ

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But there is an indication when the external wing tanks are empty Dudikoff - but only on the 9.13 gauge(has an extra empty-lamp for the purpose). The problem is that this gauge doesn't exist in the sim although the (RL)MiG-29S has it and the MiG-29(9.12) should have it if modified for wing drop tanks(which is how its depicted in the sim).

 

Yeah, sorry, I reckoned that since there's no fuel level meter there, that the lamp indication is an estimate, but I guess the fuel pumps can tell when there's no more fuel being pumped in and shut down automatically and this can be used as a signal for the indication.

 

Yes it would and yes the wing drop tanks impose bigger restrictions than the CL tank. The reason is quite simply that the fuel system of the original 9.12 was designed to only have the ability to carry the CL tank. The introduction of wing drop tanks with the 9.13 was just sort of a "hack".

 

Hmm, I stand corrected, they actually did implement them to drop sequentially in the game (like the weapons). First press, the wing tanks are dropped and then the center tank (second press).

 

It might have been like this before, didn't really test this ever as the drop tanks are probably a pretty limited commodity. Though, now with a more realistic flight model and no air brake function with the CL tank on, I'd expect a sudden surge in demand from the simulated factory that makes them.


Edited by Dudikoff

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Hmm, I stand corrected, they actually did implement them to drop sequentially in the game (like the weapons). First press, the wing tanks are dropped and then the center tank (second press).

 

So do I then - I also remembered it as a single press for all......still in the wrong order though :) .

JJ

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Aren't there two commands which jettison fuel tanks. The jettison full tanks one which drops all your tanks and the normal jettison, which as on the F-15, drops the wing and then the center fuel tanks if present. If no fuel tanks it starts dropping weapons

'Shadow'

 

Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

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can somebody post a pic of the guage indicating the central tank light??

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I meant in the game, I just presumed all three get dumped at the same time (once you press CTRL-W), but I'll have to try it out.

LCtrl + W - jettison weapons

LAlt + R - jettison fuel tanks

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LCtrl + W - jettison weapons LAlt + R - jettison fuel tanks

 

Yes, but Ctrl-W also works as it first dumps the fuel tanks.

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can somebody post a pic of the guage indicating the central tank light??

 

From your manual, page 29

[ATTACH]196080[/ATTACH]

You can find the manual here if you have FC3

The letter for the drive you installed DCS in:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\Flaming Cliffs\Doc

 

Or if you have the mig-29 individually

The letter for the drive you installed DCS in:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\Mig-29\Doc

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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From your manual, page 29

[ATTACH]196080[/ATTACH]

You can find the manual here if you have FC3

The letter for the drive you installed DCS in:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\Flaming Cliffs\Doc

 

Or if you have the mig-29 individually

The letter for the drive you installed DCS in:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\Mig-29\Doc

 

Thanks mate, really appreciated, I haven't read an FC3 manual since years..so when the light of central tank is ON that means it's emty right?

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Thanks mate, really appreciated, I haven't read an FC3 manual since years..so when the light of central tank is ON that means it's emty right?

Yes, any light that come on it indicates that tank is empty

 

Strange thing for me, there are not manual for mig-29 in my installation doc folder (I'm in french setting). I take it directly from ED Forum

The manual for FC3 version was release with today's update for the Openbeta 2.5.3.22877

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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It's possible to mount wing tanks on this thing? Hmmm, might be a real option for multiplayer since this thing drinks like there is no tomorrow...

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It's possible to mount wing tanks on this thing? Hmmm, might be a real option for multiplayer since this thing drinks like there is no tomorrow...

 

Yes, I mount wing tanks when go to AWACS killer, when the central is empty I jettison first (LAlt + R), and when the ones in the wings are empty with LCtrl-W (the same as weapons) only one click!, the first realeased are the most internal pylons, mean the tanks. Sometimes go asymetric and mount only one wing tank, and one R-27ER


Edited by JunMcKill
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Been testing with the external fuel and noticed that the wing tanks drain simultaneously with the internal fuel. (Central drains first)

 

Not sure how the real thing works but is this worthy of a bug report?

 

With the wing tanks always being jettisoned before the central it's a little disappointing that you'll be wasting fuel if the need arises.

 

(Ver: 2.5.3.22877)

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Fuel tank jettison is problomatic now. Using Jettison tanks all 3 go, pressing jettison stores has the same effect. In earlier versions FC1.3 Jettison of external tanks was different though not fully correct. In FC1.3 the first press of the stores jettison switch dropped the 2 wing tanks, a second press resulted in the cl tank going ... not correct but at least selective.

 

 

A way to implement this to at least be able to replicate an appropriate sequence would be:

 

 

Press Jettison tanks .... only the cl tank goes (as IRL)

Press External stores button .... Wing tanks go

Then for each successive press of the stores jettison button each weapon is jettisoned symmetrically inboard to outboard.

 

 

The most accurate solution would be for specific Keybindings for Cl tank jettison and Wing tank jettison.

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Been testing with the external fuel and noticed that the wing tanks drain simultaneously with the internal fuel. (Central drains first)

 

How did you notice that?. The fuel gauge in the sim only shows internal fuel on the tape and there is only an empty indication(lamp) for the CL tank - none for the wing drop tanks.

 

Do you mean that the tape indicator starts to drop as soon as the CL tank empty caption goes on, although you carry wing drop tanks?

 

Not sure how the real thing works but is this worthy of a bug report?

 

Already explained earlier in the thread. In general external fuel is depleted before the internal - CL tank first and then wing drop tanks.


Edited by Alfa

JJ

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