Pilot-Rio?

[BuzzU]

Out of curiosity. What was the normal workload for each? What did the pilot control and what would the Rio control?

[BuzzU]

Nobody knows?

[Steel Jaw]

Pilot flies and launches weapons and fires the gun...rio controls radar and navigation

[Repth]

From what I understand:

 

Pilot: Aircraft and engine/hydraulic/flight systems control; flying, starting and shutting down engines, and overall decision maker. Can fire/release all weapons on board.

 

Rio: AWG-9 operations, navigation, target identification, and radios. Can fire AIM-54 Phoenix (and possibly AIM-7?). Targeting pod control (possibly TARPS pod?).

 

I'm sure it goes way more in depth than that, but that is the gist of it.

[CheckGear]

From what I understand:

 

Pilot: Aircraft and engine/hydraulic/flight systems control; flying, starting and shutting down engines, and overall decision maker. Can fire/release all weapons on board.

 

Rio: AWG-9 operations, navigation, target identification, and radios. Can fire AIM-54 Phoenix (and possibly AIM-7?). Targeting pod control (possibly TARPS pod?).

 

I'm sure it goes way more in depth than that, but that is the gist of it.

 

 

The RIO can most definitely fire AIM-7s. In the January 4, 1989 Gulf of Sidra incident, it was Gypsy 207's RIO, Leo Enwright, who shot the initial Sparrow missile at the Libyan MiG-23s, much to the surprise of his pilot, Joseph Connelly.

[Repth]

The RIO can most definitely fire AIM-7s. In the January 4, 1989 Gulf of Sidra incident, it was Gypsy 207's RIO, Leo Enwright, who shot the initial Sparrow missile at the Libyan MiG-23s, much to the surprise of his pilot, Joseph Connelly.

 

Good to know! I was pretty sure they could but, better safe than sorry. :D

[BuzzU]

Thanks, guys. I wasn't sure and didn't want to assign more to the Rio than what would be realistic.

 

Plus, it might be fun to take the back seat too.

[rrohde]

That brings up a question - does Jester AI take over as the pilot when you're in the back seat?

[BuzzU]

No, they have Iceman for that role. :)

 

I'm surprised we didn't get Maverick.

[Gunar_Konrad]

Not sure, But I think pilot can not shoot AIM 54. Just the RIO.

[BlackLion213]

Not sure, But I think pilot can not shoot AIM 54. Just the RIO.

 

The pilot can shoot all weapons including the AIM-54. :)

 

The workload is pretty evenly split between the pilot and RIO. This actually makes the F-14 module pretty approachable for new users despite its detail. While the aircraft's handling takes a bit of practice to master, it is very straightforward in normal flight and cruise AOA (3-10 units).

 

The most complex systems belong to the RIO and Jester manages those, so the pilot's primary interests are basic navigation (INS operated by RIO), managing the airframe and flight, and managing weapons (including auto-acquisition modes for the AWG-9, which are quite handy).

 

-Nick

[BuzzU]

Do you think the F-14 handling will be similar to the F-15?

[Deano87]

Do you think the F-14 handling will be similar to the F-15?

 

I hope not!:pilotfly:

[BlackLion213]

Do you think the F-14 handling will be similar to the F-15?

 

No, it feels quite different. In fact it feels quite different from any aircraft in DCS currently.

 

Compared to the F-15C it is quite a bit slower in roll and generally less precise in all axes with a bit of lag in pitch. However, it also turns better than the F-15C at all speeds below Mach 0.9 and below 25,000'.

 

The handling in the landing configuration is also much "messier". There is a moderate amount of adverse yaw at approach AOA and coordinated rudder and aileron is quite important for proper handling during approach. It also requires exclusive use of the rudder for roll inputs above 20 units AOA and has significant roll reversal above about 20 units AOA as well.

 

It also lacks any pitch trim compensator so you need to frequently trim for any changes in speed or wing sweep. Wing sweep affects many of the general handling characteristics as well, including roll rate (which speeds up as the wings sweep) and turn efficiency.

 

Finally, it is a far more "talkative" airframe with consistent feedback offered by airframe buffet allows it to clearly communicate AOA. Allowing the pilot to comfortably differentiate cruise AOA from ideal STR AOA and max performance AOA, along with uselessly high AOA.

 

Its a fascinating module to fly that isn't quite like anything in DCS. It's turn performance is mighty with a max ITR pitch rate of 23 degrees per second, while its STR at medium to low altitude matches the F-15C and F-16C (14 deg per second).

 

Also, its fast....really fast. Similar to the F-15C in level acceleration.

 

I think people will be quite taken with the overall experience. Its a bewitching machine! :)

 

-Nick

[CheckGear]

No, it feels quite different. In fact it feels quite different from any aircraft in DCS currently.

 

Compared to the F-15C it is quite a bit slower in roll and generally less precise in all axes with a bit of lag in pitch. However, it also turns better than the F-15C at all speeds below Mach 0.9 and below 25,000'.

 

The handling in the landing configuration is also much "messier". There is a moderate amount of adverse yaw at approach AOA and coordinated rudder and aileron is quite important for proper handling during approach. It also requires exclusive use of the rudder for roll inputs above 20 units AOA and has significant roll reversal above about 20 units AOA as well.

 

It also lacks any pitch trim compensator so you need to frequently trim for any changes in speed or wing sweep. Wing sweep affects many of the general handling characteristics as well, including roll rate (which speeds up as the wings sweep) and turn efficiency.

 

Finally, it is a far more "talkative" airframe with consistent feedback offered by airframe buffet allows it to clearly communicate AOA. Allowing the pilot to comfortably differentiate cruise AOA from ideal STR AOA and max performance AOA, along with uselessly high AOA.

 

Its a fascinating module to fly that isn't quite like anything in DCS. It's turn performance is mighty with a max ITR pitch rate of 23 degrees per second, while its STR at medium to low altitude matches the F-15C and F-16C (14 deg per second).

 

Also, its fast....really fast. Similar to the F-15C in level acceleration.

 

I think people will be quite taken with the overall experience. Its a bewitching machine! :)

 

-Nick

 

 

Question - were you an F-14 pilot?

 

And by the sounds of it, the "Topgun" moniker was well-earned by all Tomcat drivers. It really was a beast of an aircraft!

 

As an aside - I wonder why Heatblur named the AI RIO "Jester" as opposed to "Merlin?"

[jcdata]

No, it feels quite different. In fact it feels quite different from any aircraft in DCS currently.

 

Compared to the F-15C it is quite a bit slower in roll and generally less precise in all axes with a bit of lag in pitch. However, it also turns better than the F-15C at all speeds below Mach 0.9 and below 25,000'.

 

The handling in the landing configuration is also much "messier". There is a moderate amount of adverse yaw at approach AOA and coordinated rudder and aileron is quite important for proper handling during approach. It also requires exclusive use of the rudder for roll inputs above 20 units AOA and has significant roll reversal above about 20 units AOA as well.

 

It also lacks any pitch trim compensator so you need to frequently trim for any changes in speed or wing sweep. Wing sweep affects many of the general handling characteristics as well, including roll rate (which speeds up as the wings sweep) and turn efficiency.

 

Finally, it is a far more "talkative" airframe with consistent feedback offered by airframe buffet allows it to clearly communicate AOA. Allowing the pilot to comfortably differentiate cruise AOA from ideal STR AOA and max performance AOA, along with uselessly high AOA.

 

Its a fascinating module to fly that isn't quite like anything in DCS. It's turn performance is mighty with a max ITR pitch rate of 23 degrees per second, while its STR at medium to low altitude matches the F-15C and F-16C (14 deg per second).

 

Also, its fast....really fast. Similar to the F-15C in level acceleration.

 

I think people will be quite taken with the overall experience. Its a bewitching machine! :)

 

-Nick

What happens when you turn off the Roll SAS during BFM? And Pitch SAS?.... Finally, Yaw SAS?

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[QuiGon]

I don't know if this is true for the USN and the F-14, but I know from other air forces and other 2 seat fighters, that there is also a workshare in comms, where the pilot will be responsible for flight comms (e.g. ATC) while the RIO is responsible for tactical comms (e.g. AWACS, JTAC, ...).

[BuzzU]

Thanks, Blacklion. It does sound different than any other plane.

[jcdata]

Typically in BFM..the roll SAS is turned off

 

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[BlackLion213]

Question - were you an F-14 pilot?

 

Nope. I'm a surgeon, but commenting on what I've learned as a Heatblur F-14 tester. So any comparison is between the DCS: F-14B and DCS: F-15C, not the real airplanes. :)

 

 

What happens when you turn off the Roll SAS during BFM? And Pitch SAS?.... Finally, Yaw SAS?

 

Turning off Pitch SAS doesn't change handling much. It leads to a bit more sensitivity and tendency towards OIO since SAS slows some initial inputs and limits max deflection of the stabilators. But the net effect does not markedly change handling.

 

Disabling Yaw SAS has a much bigger effect. The nose wanders a lot more in routine flight and with roll inputs. It also takes way longer for rudder inputs to damp out and wing rock is far more likely to occur at high AOA. Overall, it is the most helpful SAS and turning it off leads to messier handling and increases the risk of control problems or departure.

 

Roll SAS is a mixed bag in terms of benefits. Roll SAS on allows for more rapid roll rate and the system limits max roll to 180 deg per second. Since roll is much quicker with wings swept, you will sometimes see the system modulating max roll rate during sustained aileron rolls with wings swept, leading to a very subtle "racheting effect" (only noticeable with sustained roll and pretty subtle). No such limiting occurs with roll SAS off, but max stabilator deflection is limited so the max roll rate is not as fast (at least compared to the max attainable rate for the first 90-180 deg with roll SAS on).

 

So turning it off leads to a slower roll rate, but also improves high AOA handling. Above 17 units or so AOA, the pilot should be using the rudder as the primary input for roll. However, with roll SAS on the system will try to stop roll that doesn't have an associated lateral stick input. This leads to more yaw during attempted rudder rolls during mild to moderate buffet (~14-23 units of AOA) and "cross controlling" of the aircraft. So handling at higher AOA is impaired with roll SAS on, so you should turn it off for BFM.

 

Also, the roll SAS system does not account for AOA. So when roll reversal onsets (above 21-22 units AOA), the system will still give inputs opposite of the detected (and uncommanded) roll, which will actually accelerate the roll during this flight regime. Roll reversal also tends to build the AOA and can lead to yaw, this chain of events places the aircraft at higher risk of departure. So its another good reason to disable the system before ACM or BFM.

 

Are these the answers you were looking for Julian? Or other details?

 

-Nick

[Xenovia]

No, it feels quite different. In fact it feels quite different from any aircraft in DCS currently.

 

Compared to the F-15C it is quite a bit slower in roll and generally less precise in all axes with a bit of lag in pitch. However, it also turns better than the F-15C at all speeds below Mach 0.9 and below 25,000'.

 

The handling in the landing configuration is also much "messier". There is a moderate amount of adverse yaw at approach AOA and coordinated rudder and aileron is quite important for proper handling during approach. It also requires exclusive use of the rudder for roll inputs above 20 units AOA and has significant roll reversal above about 20 units AOA as well.

 

It also lacks any pitch trim compensator so you need to frequently trim for any changes in speed or wing sweep. Wing sweep affects many of the general handling characteristics as well, including roll rate (which speeds up as the wings sweep) and turn efficiency.

 

Finally, it is a far more "talkative" airframe with consistent feedback offered by airframe buffet allows it to clearly communicate AOA. Allowing the pilot to comfortably differentiate cruise AOA from ideal STR AOA and max performance AOA, along with uselessly high AOA.

 

Its a fascinating module to fly that isn't quite like anything in DCS. It's turn performance is mighty with a max ITR pitch rate of 23 degrees per second, while its STR at medium to low altitude matches the F-15C and F-16C (14 deg per second).

 

Also, its fast....really fast. Similar to the F-15C in level acceleration.

 

I think people will be quite taken with the overall experience. Its a bewitching machine! :)

 

-Nick

 

Interesting, now I understand a bit more of what people mean when they say the F-14 has temperamental flight characteristics, however, I didn't know the F-14 was THAT capable in turn fights. So what's the best areas for the Tomcat to beat the F-16 when it comes to turn fighting?