Landing Mode Flight Behaviour - Still WIP?

[SCU]

When the Hornet was first released for early access, it was reported by several real-life Hornet pilots as well as an engineer (remember this thread?) and other players that the trim to AoA behaviour in landing mode (when flaps are down specifically) is incorrect. Is this still a WIP or is it going to stay this way? Noticed no mention from Wags about this for the last few months.

[Deano87]

What was the outline of what its doing wrong currently? It flies exactly as I would expect currently.

[Eaglewings]

The Hornet flys a lot better now in approach mode for me. They did say(ED) several weeks back they would tweak and reduce the drag accompanying lowering of the landing gear.

 

Hard to tell if my experience now is due to increased dexterity at controlling her in that mode and since no update has been mention on whether it was tweaked, it is easy to assume it is me getting better.

 

However, I do have a very strong feeling it was worked on because the hornet used to fall a lot faster than it is now during Approach mode.

 

Again there hasn't been complains on this. The former rl pilot(Jell-O) test of the hornet in a recent interview with Wags rated the bird good on many levels.

 

This is just my take though.

[SCU]

It's not about drag or power. It's about how aggressive the hornet wants to pitch to trimmed AoA. So I guess it's more of a Flight Control Computer (FCS) issue than a flight model one. RL F-18 pilots A.W. S. & Lex Talionis have mentioned this issue on their youtube videos.

[Chops]

When the Hornet was first released for early access, it was reported by several real-life Hornet pilots as well as an engineer (remember this thread?) and other players that the trim to AoA behaviour in landing mode (when flaps are down specifically) is incorrect. Is this still a WIP or is it going to stay this way? Noticed no mention from Wags about this for the last few months.

 

 

Here is the information you are looking for: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=221584

[SCU]

there hasn't been much communication recently save for about new features and minor fixes.

Well I was wrong. Been going through the thread that Chops linked earlier, & Wags gave an update there on the FM situation:

The engineer assigned to the FM is currently hard at work on the JHMCS and HARM. Once those tasks are complete, he'll revisit remaining FM issues.

 

Thanks!

[SCU]

It's just something in the FCS logic in flaps-down mode that needs some tweaking, otherwise the logic in almost all regimes other than landing seems spot on!

[Weta43]

...or someone who thought the legendary plane would make them an ace, but is finding there's still some skill needed ?

[oldcrusty]

It's just something in the FCS logic in flaps-down mode that needs some tweaking, otherwise the logic in almost all regimes other than landing seems spot on!

 

 

To be honest and not very modest:D … I adjusted very nicely to flying this thing and can ace all aspects of boat ops but... the "librarian" part of me keeps finding these tidbits of info from manuals and word of mouth, like this one from NFM-000:

 

... "Two separate WOW functions control the FCS logic after touchdown. The first occurs when the aircraft weight is on any two landing gear. When this occurs, the FCS no longer attempts to maintain trim AOA. Stabilator position is a function of stick position and trim setting..."

 

 

So, after initial pitch-up some aft stick deflection is required for optimum climb out. (about 2 -3 ") The climb out is flown at slightly faster a/s then on-speed AOA (about 150) till you're settled back on downwind. That's what I've heard:noexpression:

[majapahit]

The climb out is flown at slightly faster a/s then on-speed AOA (about 150) till you're settled back on downwind. That's what I've heard:noexpression:

What about the non-librarian

 

'the climb out is flown by smashing the throttles forward until it stops .. '

after which you ease the throttles for banking speed and so forth ..

 

You're describing a bolter or training here that stays full dirty, and would - maybe - make sense in an immediate go-around.

 

I wonder if that's the rule or the exception.

 

I'd say it's safer to just throttle away from the deck, military or afterburner, gears up flaps up into the 'did not trap' procedure of the day, and then get new permission to approach?

 

I think that's what I read about bolters (unless this is training without regular traffic?).

Edited October 27, 2018 by majapahit

[oldcrusty]

What about the non-librarian

 

'the climb out is flown by smashing the throttles forward until it stops .. '

after which you ease the throttles for banking speed and so forth ..

 

You're describing a bolter or training here that stays full dirty, and would - maybe - make sense in an immediate go-around.

 

I wonder if that's the rule or the exception.

 

I'd say it's safer to just throttle away from the deck, military or afterburner, gears up flaps up into the 'did not trap' procedure of the day, and then get new permission to approach?

 

I think that's what I read about bolters (unless this is training without regular traffic?).

 

 

Yes, I am talking about the bolter/wave-off pattern, following up on my previous post (deleted due to rule 1.5... now I have to study law books on top of NATOPS:book:)

I start shoving throttles to the mill. stop a second before wheels hit the deck. When I'm off the boat (still talking about bolters) the initial pitch up seems OK but then... if you don't immediately pull back on the throttles and shove the stick forward you will continue to pitch further up until you loop around. The FCS seems to still follow the approach AOA trim and it shouldn't be the case. In the real Hornet (@ carrier landing weight limits) the slight pull on the stick is usually required to keep the nose up @ around 10deg until the airspeed builds up to 150/160 knots then back off on power and level at 600 ft (caseI) / 1200 ft (caseIII).

In case 1 you follow your interval unless boss tells you otherwise. Once your interval is past your wing on his downwind you can start your turn. In my previous post I quoted the NFM-000" about AOA trim logic being reset to stab trim function as soon as any 2 wheels have weight on them. This makes a lot of sense:) I need to follow up on couple of things to make sure I got it right: at which point FCS goes back to AOA trim logic. I think once you start trimming back to on-speed you're back on AOA trim. This would make sense to me but... I need to double check;)

Edited October 27, 2018 by Gripes323

[majapahit]

.. about AOA trim logic being reset to stab trim function as soon as any 2 wheels have weight on them ..

I have no recent experience of bolters (I smash on the wire if need be), but I can remember there was an issue with 'wheels stick to the deck in a bolter' many moons ago, which was fixed.

You point to something here, which can be circumvented by taking back throttle until the plane 'behaves' (and/or simply raise gear and flaps and at alt lower them again at abeam bank is what I did when training) as I can vaguely remember, but I'd say ED knows by now all that needs to be looked at, I'd guess it's just a matter of time and resources (and it ain't easy I bet, which is a problem).

Edited October 28, 2018 by majapahit

[oldcrusty]

I have no recent experience of bolters (I smash on the wire if need be), but I can remember there was an issue with 'wheels stick to the deck in a bolter' many moons ago, which was fixed.

You point to something here, which can be circumvented by taking back throttle until the plane 'behaves' (and/or simply raise gear and flaps and at alt lower them again at abeam bank is what I did when training) as I can vaguely remember, but I'd say ED knows by now all that needs to be looked at, I'd guess it's just a matter of time and resources.

 

Oh, it's easy to do bolters... hook up:D

I've been doing this "stuff" for a long time so... didn't take too long to figure out what needs to be done to "circumvent" and not by raising gear and flaps but... never mind.