Force Feedback Support?

[birdstrike]

Unfortunately the FFB interface ED has provided is very limiting and has no documentation. Artificial “soft” stops and the like are not possible since it’s very easy to push through the maximum force consumer FFB sticks can provide. All I can do is adjust the spring strength and the zero force position. Some new higher-end FFB devices with better sensors and motors would be nice...

 

 

 

 

please keep the different strenght on pitch and roll axis though! this is definitely a big improvement to the initial ffb support you provided.

Edited March 29, 2019 by birdstrike

[Eldur]

How is this an improvement? There's spring force on the pitch axis now and it racts to the trim which is great. But on the other hoof, the lateral axis literally has no force at all and since the Tomcat is extreeemely sensitive in rolling, this doesn't help at all, even with a 25 curvature on the roll axis I'm having a hard time keeping my AoB steady now just because of the lack of spring force on that axis. This was better by ages before the last update TBH.

 

But overall, it's getting better and I'm looking forward to a final implementation here

 

And I totally agree that we need more FFB devices. It's awesome that some teams like HB are doing the FFB work even for those of us with 20 yo sticks. I mean, you even had to get a stick for being able to develop this properly...

 

Too bad there isn't a market just because of some utterly silly paytents, which is what I like to call those... just saying... Immersion has those just to prevent others from making things they don't even bother making themselves

[marcoacv]

same here

 

g940

 

Please Heatblur Simulations. The last update make my FFB worst. I can´t do ACLS, probably FFB issue.

[fat creason]

The next update will have stronger spring forces and more closely replicate the Tomcat’s feel system which is essentially just some springs, cams, bobweights, and the trim actuators. The roll axis will be lighter than the pitch of course, but not as weak as current. The main issue is the lack of documentation regarding the arbitrary values I’m sending to the FFB API.

[Sadist_Cain]

lack of documentation regarding the arbitrary values I’m sending to the FFB API.

 

This should help...

 

[Curly]

The next update will have stronger spring forces and more closely replicate the Tomcat’s feel system which is essentially just some springs, cams, bobweights, and the trim actuators. The roll axis will be lighter than the pitch of course, but not as weak as current. The main issue is the lack of documentation regarding the arbitrary values I’m sending to the FFB API.

There's also an eddy current dampener attached to the stick. Which functions as electromagnetic brake in order to prevent rapid movement of the stick, in both the pitch and roll axis.

 

 

 

The mach trim system also moves the stick as it trims the aircraft.

 

 

All of this is outlined in the 2-2-4.

[Vatikus]

The next update will have stronger spring forces and more closely replicate the Tomcat’s feel system which is essentially just some springs, cams, bobweights, and the trim actuators. The roll axis will be lighter than the pitch of course, but not as weak as current. The main issue is the lack of documentation regarding the arbitrary values I’m sending to the FFB API.

Please note that currently if stick is not on physical center, autopilot will not engage. Autopilot should engage when stick is at trim position (virtual/FFB center).

[Foxmike]

Please note that currently if stick is not on physical center, autopilot will not engage. Autopilot should engage when stick is at trim position (virtual/FFB center).

 

 

+1

[Raubritter]

Please note that currently if stick is not on physical center, autopilot will not engage. Autopilot should engage when stick is at trim position (virtual/FFB center).

 

yes, it's a problem now.

[Eldur]

Noticed something... we got the dual trim issue here. Held the stick in place (not grabbing through the laser) and just did the trim work. In DCS, the stick was moving though as well as the control surfaces. Shouldn't do that since it makes trimming less precise. Just shift the spring center "if FFB".

 

Also when trimmed nose down completely, you can pull back the stick almost to the center without the stick in the cockpit moving at all but the control surfaces still reacting. Must be magic

[Renko]

I did a quick test.

And noticed.

 

- Still can not use the autopilot. Due to the necessity of physical stick centered

 

- I noticed a more hard FFB spring in general.

 

 

I know you guys need to try and error without a manual for this thing.

So, dont take the criticsm on a bad way.

We appreciate the effort

Edited April 2, 2019 by Renko

[vadupleix]

I did a quick test.

And noticed.

 

- Still can not use the autopilot. Due to the necessity of physical stick centered

 

- I noticed a more hard FFB spring in general.

 

- And much less of the FFB effects in general

 

- Also no feeling at all right now of the airplane. Feel more like a FBW

 

For me the first release of the FFB had the best "feeling" when flying the airplane.

 

I know you guys need to try and error without a manual for this thing.

So, dont take the criticsm on a bad way.

We appreciate the effort

Do we still get the buffet for high AoA now? I rely this heavily in dogfights so if we lose that in the new patch I’ll hold off the update.

Thanks!

[ViFF]

I just came in here to say: THANK YOU!!!

 

The new FFB forces is simply brilliant!

 

The high AoA buffet is fantastic!

 

Hats off to you guys, this feels "just right"

 

SALUTE!

[vadupleix]

Noticed something... we got the dual trim issue here. Held the stick in place (not grabbing through the laser) and just did the trim work. In DCS, the stick was moving though as well as the control surfaces. Shouldn't do that since it makes trimming less precise. Just shift the spring center "if FFB".

 

Also when trimmed nose down completely, you can pull back the stick almost to the center without the stick in the cockpit moving at all but the control surfaces still reacting. Must be magic

 

Noticed this as well, there was one time I forgot to trim at catapult and cat with nose down trim, I cannot get the nose up even with full aft stick and ended up crashing to the sea

[Sadist_Cain]

Massive improvement in stick forces in the last update, the feedback through the stick feels much much better without going over the line into feeling like a WW1 plane, somewhat finnicky getting the AP to kick in still but a brilliant update.

[Renko]

Well, i had to take some things back.

I edited my comment.

 

My quick test was wrong somehow.

[Eldur]

Feels a lot better now after a quick flight. The only thing that gets me is that massive thumping while taxiing on paved surfaces...

[RustBelt]

That’s a feature not a bug. The Tomcat is a hard ride.

[Sadist_Cain]

Noticed something... we got the dual trim issue here. Held the stick in place (not grabbing through the laser) and just did the trim work. In DCS, the stick was moving though as well as the control surfaces. Shouldn't do that since it makes trimming less precise. Just shift the spring center "if FFB".

 

Also when trimmed nose down completely, you can pull back the stick almost to the center without the stick in the cockpit moving at all but the control surfaces still reacting. Must be magic

 

Noticed this today along with some very bizarre trim behaviour, like there was two systems at work for trimming but each with their own plan.

[Vertigo72]

same here, using a FFB2 stick, the F14 trim is driving me nuts. Also, the buttons I set for pitch actually trim the roll, and the buttons I set for roll, trim the pitch? And is there some automatic trim interaction with the N key that I dont understand? After messing with the autopilot reference, I often find my trim completely out of wack and Im unable to just trim it back.

[Eldur]

Feels a lot better now after a quick flight. The only thing that gets me is that massive thumping while taxiing on paved surfaces...

 

That’s a feature not a bug. The Tomcat is a hard ride.

 

Noticed some more about this. The thumping intensity depends on pitch axis position. It's very hard with the stick forward (which is the case in hot start for example), but the effect gets reduced noticably as soon as I pull back the stick / trim nose up. I guess that effect would perfectly make sense if it was tied to the taxiing speed at the same time, but at slow, typical taxiing speeds the elevator shouldn't push the nose into the ground.

 

I like those details, but let's improve it further

 

same here, using a FFB2 stick, the F14 trim is driving me nuts. Also, the buttons I set for pitch actually trim the roll, and the buttons I set for roll, trim the pitch?

 

Open up FF Tune in the controller section with anything in your FFB stick#s coloumn selected before. Check Swap Axis there.

[Vertigo72]

The axis controls themselves are fine. Its the trims:

 

 

 

Notice how I had to set PoV left/right to pitch trim and up/down to Roll trim in order to get it to work like you would expect (L/R to roll and U/D to trim pitch).

So its not just a reversal, its actually pitch and roll functions that are swapped. Im guessing on a hotas thumb POV dial you dont notice? edit: no, it doesnt matter, it will be incorrect with anything, as you assign a button it does something else

Edited April 18, 2019 by Vertigo72

[Ramsay]

The axis controls themselves are fine. Its the trims:

 

Swapping the FORCE axis, changes it so X axis forces drive the Y axis i.e. if the stick is moving right for pitch UP (aft) input, it will instead move stick back as required.

 

DCS follows the Direct X force feedback standard (defined by MS), however the MS FFB2 doesn't and MS FFB2 sticks use X force input to drive Y force output.

 

When FFB is correctly implemented in a DCS module, Logitec G940 FFB joysticks, etc. don't need their force axis swapped but a MS FFB2 joystick does.

 

To check that your physical stick and F-14B virtual stick are in sync, bring up the 'controls indicator' (RCtrl+Enter) and check that the large diamond (physical stick) returns to the small diamond (trim position) when free.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Ramsay
typos

[Vertigo72]

Thanks! Indeed it seems the force axis where reversed. that explains why it felt so weird. Seems to work fine now, but will need some more testing.

[Sadist_Cain]

Be advised I was finding that my keybinds were being a bit funky and that had an effect on my trim.

The keys being passed through by the saitek software were sticking on/disabling themselves, leaving me with some trim buttons held on and others not functioning.

 

 

Rebound to new keys and no problem.