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Is Facebook backing away from Oculus 2?


dooom

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whether its oculus or another headset, i dont mind as long as we see an affordable product with increased FOV much closer to human vision in the not too distant future...right now pimax seems to go this route...i wonder about the price though.

one thing is for sure..i cant go back to 2d flying on a monitor and trackir even if it were a cinema sized panel.

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Just wondering today what my next VR headset be, didnt expect any Rift II. Pimax 8K?

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Just wondering today what my next VR headset be, didnt expect any Rift II. Pimax 8K?

 

I have been following the Pimax 5k, It certainly looks like a great alternative


Edited by =DECOY=


 

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Nate Mitchell on Twitter yesterday afternoon:

 

 

"A lot of questions today about the future of Rift — we're still driving forward on the Rift/PC platform with new hardware, software, and content.

 

Lots of great stuff in the works. More to share in the months ahead."

Don B

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I have been following the Pimax 5k, It certainly looks like a great alternative

 

 

 

 

5K+. The 5K is the original with lower resolution.

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Well. Bye Bye Oculus. Another Great Company desyroyed by FB.

 

Fortunately there are companies around with promising alternatives.

 

And how many really?

 

Talking to various Steam top VR game developers, the sales are not great because the VR customer base is extremely tiny compared to what they get from otherwise. You barely get money out from those.

 

What is the typical story?

 

https://www.roadtovr.com/ccp-games-ceo-expected-vr-two-three-times-big/amp/

 

CCP Games, the Icelandic studio known for their long-running MMO Eve: Online (2003), shuttered their VR production studios in a surprise move last year, selling off their Newcastle-based branch behind their multiplayer space dogfighter EVE: Valkyrie (2016), and completely shutting down their Atlanta studio behind sports game Sparc (2017). Now, CEO Hilmar Veigar Petursson speaks out in an interview with Destructoid about the studio's return to traditional desktop gaming, and his thoughts about the VR landscape. From a report:

 

In short, he thought VR would be bigger by now, and more capable of supporting a healthy multiplayer userbase. EVE: Valkyrie, the company's flagship VR game, was the result of over three years of development before becoming a day-one launch title on Oculus Rift and PSVR, arriving shortly afterwards on HTC Vive via Steam in 2016 -- a seemingly best-case scenario for any multiplayer-only game.

 

And

 

 

“If it does take off, and I mean if, we’ll re-assess. The important thing is we need to see the metrics for active users of VR,” he tells Destructoid. “A lot of people bought headsets just to try it out. How many of those people are active? We found that in terms of our data, a lot of users weren’t.”

 

 

I know few who bought a VR for totally different reasons than a DCS World, and all of them has abandoned the VR as a "gimmick" or "Nice thing but waste of money for experience".

 

The VR will, as its current fifth generation, very likely get the same faith as Nintendo Wii or 3D movies/television. A sounding huge success at launch and start, but couple years and they are all forgotten and left to closet/shelf/unused.

 

It doesn't take rocket engineer to notice that there are mainly two genres in gaming where VR can succeed, it is a flying simulators and driving simulators. Both are build around a totally own unique kind controllers, a wheel + pedals + shift, or HOTAS. Both are seated games, you don't need to move but are played in relaxed manner.

 

No, the VR is not going to ever make to the gaming world like ie. Doom or Quake did. You just don't get the gamers to jump around, walk around, kneel, crawl etc in their living rooms or gaming rooms just to play VR! You just don't!

 

How many wants to experience the same boring bow mechanics? How long until the two pistol shooting becomes boring? How long until trying to find the story in the game, instead just get the story already made for you in simple manner?

 

DCS World is one of the grand games you can have for VR, in any platform. But comparing a DCS World to any AAA title game, like a Call of Duty or Battlefield, it just doesn't have to offer what it takes to get the VR be huge success in the future.

 

If one could just take any AAA shooter title now, put VR HMD on and just sit front of the table or on couch and never experience any motion sickness etc, then there could be a change. But all the gimmick things from special controllers, physically moving in a room etc is not helping at all.

 

Humans are lazy people. We want just simple fun, not a hours physical exercise after workday etc just to play some games.

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I actually prefer physically interactive games. I would much rather play a shooter in a VR room where I can stand up, kneel, lay down and aim without using any buttons. The idea of special treadmills that allow 360 degree walking is cool, too. My main beef with current VR is the major downgrade in resolution and graphics quality required to support stereo 3d and wide FOV. If VR supported enough resolution to match the display quality I get from my 46-inch 1080p TV sitting 2.5-3 ft from my face, I would use it almost 100% of the time. Instead, I am about a 50/50 split between using my TV/TrackIR and Oculus Rift.

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Lucas Matney, author of the original Tech Crunch article, does not give much for Oculus claims that they're still invested in PC and that they are planning a future version of the Rift. Indeed, Oculus talk sounds mostly like damage control to me. The quote "planning a future version of the Rift" is so vague that it means nothing. No time frame and nothing about what such a product would look like. Lucas Matney still stands behind his article that the planned Rift CV2 is cancelled, and I think he is probably right.

 

 

Personally, I think it's a bad decision. PC VR is like Formula 1, it's a showcase of the best VR has to offer. I also think that Facebook is putting to much faith into the lower performing stand alone headsets. Many of the people who buy them already own a PC headset, so going away from PC may hurt their business in the long run.

 

 

I hope Iribe goes to a company that wants to invest in high-end VR, hopefully HTC or Samsung.

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I have had the conviction, since the beginning, that Racing and Flight simulation will keep VR rolling forward no matter what. It's too much of a perfect fit. The only thing stopping mass adoption in our genre right now is a lack of high enough resolution; and to a lesser extend FOV.

Beyond dramas in the industry or "regular" gamers opinions, I'm sure we are all good.

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If VR supported enough resolution to match the display quality I get from my 46-inch 1080p TV sitting 2.5-3 ft from my face, I would use it almost 100% of the time. Instead, I am about a 50/50 split between using my TV/TrackIR and Oculus Rift.

 

But it does...

 

The Rift panels are 1200x1080 and you have two of them. Both drawing just slightly larger total area than one panel.

 

But the problem is that it is not the resolution, it is the FOV, optics and finally as well the rendering quality.

 

Many things needs to be improved in VR to get the visual detail par with simple display front of you. At 4K we can start to get the quality that Full HD delivers. Regardless that resolution is much higher.

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If we are looking for a 'who shot CV2' culprit, in my opinion it's Nvidia, with Intel as an accomplice. The price of entry for a decent VR capable PC, with a gpu/cpu combo that can adequately push all those pixels is still far too high. By now, two years down the line from release, VR should be playable on the 'average' PC, not a high end machine. The silly pricing of the 20XX series hasn't helped either.

I sincerely hope CV2 is still in the pipeline, but if they can't make money out of it, you can't blame them for putting it on hold.

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If we are looking for a 'who shot CV2' culprit, in my opinion it's Nvidia, with Intel as an accomplice. The price of entry for a decent VR capable PC, with a gpu/cpu combo that can adequately push all those pixels is still far too high. By now, two years down the line from release, VR should be playable on the 'average' PC, not a high end machine. The silly pricing of the 20XX series hasn't helped either.

I sincerely hope CV2 is still in the pipeline, but if they can't make money out of it, you can't blame them for putting it on hold.

 

Quite true John, Nvidia having these price levels so high now for top end GPU's is certainly not going to help.

At the same time, Oculus is working on technology to not only give better visuals and better fov, but also maintain and maybe even get better performance.

 

For what we do, us and racing simmers, we are going to want top of the line equipment as our games really push the envelope for VR. There are quite a number of games out there, that are not quite so demanding and perform quite well in VR with a 10 series card and even some 9 series cards. And they continue to work on developing more. They are considerably larger community I think than us flight and racing sim fans.

Don B

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When I was announcing such possible scenario with Oculus Rift I was stigmatized on this forum but I was just following the logic from moves made by Oculus after FB take over.

 

Unfortunately, similar things are going on with Pimax.

 

Maybe they will not be taken over by someone else company but moves they do right now could show financial problems even after a successful Kickstarter campaign.

 

The product is not finalized and it is far from it and they push it to the market anyway. Right now it is too expensive for this level of product.

Have in mind 5K is 700$ just HMD without tracking, controllers and audio, also without proper software optimization and support. There is no ASW hoe they call it Brainwarp. To reach the same quality of the picture as competitors Vive PRO/Odessey you need much more SS then those HMD. I'm talking about picture quality when you set it on the native resolution of HMD without measuring FPS performances. That tester should compare such screenshot not put Pitool SS to 2.0 plus SteamVR on 300% in same time. We need practical usage test and comparison.

 

There is a lot of question still in the air and focus specifications. I'm not denying Pimax potential but it is not worth it price they asking for.

Compare Samsung as a good example, they launched an upgraded Odessey model with the same price as previous, 499$ so didn0t try to use the opportunity to rob faithful customers like some other companies. They build much more expensive AMOLED displays with tracking, controllers and quality AKG audio.

 

Pimax has higher FOV but if we compare all this with what you got per $ Samsung is a way-way better option. For Pimax run properly you will need RTX4080superTI and we all know when such GPU will be released. Till then Samsung or even StarVR will be release better new alternative to Pimax5K+ and remember my words now same as my words about Rift 8K is already failed project.

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My speculative opinion on this is as follows. We saw crescent bay and we later got Rift. We’ve seen half dome and we WILL get rift 2.0. I’ve no doubt about that. I’m also convinced that the rift 2.0 specs are locked in already meaning Iribes departing comment about a ‘race to the bottom’ refer to rift 3.0. I think the Facebook plans after rift 2.0 are for standalone and mass adoption with further iterations of Quest (possibly also connecting to PC). Iribes desire for further cutting edge pc vr iterations are at odds with facebooks mass adoption roadmap and that’s why he left. The future of VR is not on PC as much as Iribe and other PC enthusiasts, such as us, want it to be.

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pcvr is the testbed for the standalone Quest. I imagine features will hit it first, be buggy as **** and then endup in the next generation quest. The quest is the reason FB bought oculus in the first place, it was always the goal.

 

DK1 -> DK2 -> CV1 ->quest

gearvr -> oculus go -> quest

 

Both product lines lead directly to the quest, where fb can get their billion users. But as long as pc's are faster and more flexible, FB is going to want to keep it around to push the hardware, before it's practical to bring it to a mainstream device. PCVR brought timewarp, space warp, touch, an ecosystem of 6dof dual controller games have have figured out what is actually fun to play. The lens technology, screen tech, software stack etc etc. Everything was a prototype for the Quest

 

valve/pimax/htc/wmr have saturated the market, and the daydream/vive focus are total flops. (though the vive focus is doing okay in china)

 

I hope fb eventually allows you to tether to the Quest and use it as a regular pcvr headset, but I imagine they'll wait until it's already solid in the market and turn it on as a "free" feature. The hardware can do it. It's got a better screen than the vive pro. Maybe they are waiting on a wireless attachment for next year @ OC6, they recently patented a device for a mesh network of wireless streaming to a headset.


Edited by TomVR
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Perhaps, but everything they have said to date regarding their VR strategy has been talked about in terms of the three individual products:

Go

Quest

Rift

 

I realize this is FB and who knows what they might do down the road, but so far at least I have been somewhat comforted by the fact the concrete information given so far shows the above to still be true.

 

Excluding of course wild rumors that can float around out there...

Don B

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I can't see how it is so difficult for Oculus to tether a standalone HMD to a PC, you'd just bypass the onboard processing unit and use the output to screen and the tracking.

Equally, the Rift is inherently a less complex device as it has no onboard cpu, so it either should be cheaper than a standalone, or a much better screen for the same price.

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FB want to break out into mass market appeal but the truth is no one is going to do that in a climate of mega bucks for the GPU horsepower needed to drive a minimum viable product. Simmers are a rare breed who will pay for the experience, but mass market won't so I'm guessing FB have a strategy to build the patents and bide their time.

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FB want to break out into mass market appeal but the truth is no one is going to do that in a climate of mega bucks for the GPU horsepower needed to drive a minimum viable product. Simmers are a rare breed who will pay for the experience, but mass market won't so I'm guessing FB have a strategy to build the patents and bide their time.

 

I think part of the reason they are taking a longer term approach to a next gen PC-VR device is to get the technology to allow them to offer one that will run acceptably without requiring so much horsepower, along with a substantial gain in features.

 

Just my impression and I am usually more wrong than right LOL.

Don B

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