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TWS when using R-77s


Rex854Warrior

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Hello,

 

The R-77 is supposed to have inertial navigation and so it should be possible, just like with the AIM-120, to fire the missile in TWS mode and guide it via radio command for the initial stage, the missile then goes active when it is close enough to the target.

Currently the Mig-29's TWS mode automaticaly hard locks the target when it is in range and gives off a launch warning to the opposing aircraft, even if the missile still hasn't gone active yet. (Track attached, first flight).

 

The same should apply for the R-27ER/R, both equiped with inertial navigation, are guided by radio commands (soft lock), then a hard lock is required for the final kilometers since they are Fox-1s.

 

Regards,

Rex.

 

P.S. : The multiple target TWS, when it has chosen two target and one of them is in range, switches to hard lock, nothing unusual here, but it does so for both targets, so both of them get a hard lock tone, which seems weird, unless the radar can track AND lock multiple targets at a time.

R-77TWS.trk

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Hello,

 

The R-77 is supposed to have inertial navigation and so it should be possible, just like with the AIM-120, to fire the missile in TWS mode and guide it via radio command for the initial stage, the missile then goes active when it is close enough to the target.

Currently the Mig-29's TWS mode automaticaly hard locks the target when it is in range and gives off a launch warning to the opposing aircraft, even if the missile still hasn't gone active yet. (Track attached, first flight).

 

Yes when in SNP-2 mode, the radar should stay in TWS when engaging with the R-77 and should not give a lock warning on opposing RWR.

 

The same should apply for the R-27ER/R, both equiped with inertial navigation, are guided by radio commands (soft lock), then a hard lock is required for the final kilometers since they are Fox-1s.

 

No it should not - R-27ER/R are SARH missiles and the WCS is set up, so that the radar switches to STT mode prior to launch in order to support SARH operation.

JJ

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Nope, that is an old debate we had in other threads with GGtharos, you always have to make a hard lock to be able to launch the R-77, even if you are in TWS or TWS-2 modes. Maybe the second aircraft do not receive a lock warning in TWS-2 mode, but the first locked yes

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How to lock two target? If I try I get the normal hatd lock on the first one...

 

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

 

If there is no ECM that disable the SNP (TWS) mode, you have to select TWS-2 (SNP 2) in the MIG-29S, if two enemy aircrafts are at close distance each other, just lock on the nearest one, and you will notice two marks in the HUD, one is a small diamond (primary target) and the other a cross (secondary target), when the launch signal appear for both (LA1 and LA2) launch both R-77

 


Edited by JunMcKill
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If there is no ECM that disable the SNP (TWS) mode, you have to select TWS-2 (SNP 2) in the MIG-29S, if two enemy aircrafts are at close distance each other, just lock on the nearest one, and you will notice two marks in the HUD, one is a small diamond and the other a cross, when the launch signal appear for both (LA1 and LA2) launch both R-77

 

Thx, so I must put the designator on the closest one...

 

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

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Thx, so I must put the designator on the closest one...

 

Inviato dal mio BLA-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk

 

Yes, you will notice another cross near the secondary target BEFORE lock.

 

Our argument with ED is that IRL to do that, the radar cant be working in STT mode but like the F-15 TWS mode, in a medium scan range to "paint" both aircraft at the same time and direct the R-77 via radio using inertial fly until they activate in pitbull at 12km from the targets.

 

But the problem to implement that in DCS, is that they dont have the required information to simulate it in full detail, only a two seconds video!.

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Hmm..

 

What I remember reading about the SNP2 mode(GGtharos is right that the information is scarse), is that it works like the normal SNP except that:

 

- it can prioritise two targets instead of just one(providing that both are within separation parameters) - automatically designates the highest priority one(without the need to move the cursor over it) and marks the second priority one.

 

- once target/weapon parameters are met, it issues the launch cue and the weapon(R-77) can be launched without the radar transitioning to STT.

 

I cannot remember how the second priority target is designated - i.e. whether this is automatic(after first launch) or whether you need to move the target cursor over it in order to do so.

 

As far as warnings are concerned - there should be no lock warning on the opposing RWR since the radar is still operating in TWS mode, but there might well be a launch warning(i.e. detecting the radar starting to transmit datalink support for the missiles) depending on the nature of the RWR. Lock warning only comes when the missile's ARH seeker goes active and locks the target - the range at which it does that depends on the RCS of the target, but IIRC the acquisiton range is some 16 km against an RCS of 5m2.

JJ

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Hmm..

 

What I remember reading about the SNP2 mode(GGtharos is right that the information is scarse), is that it works like the normal SNP except that:

 

- it can prioritise two targets instead of just one(providing that both are within separation parameters) - automatically designates the highest priority one(without the need to move the cursor over it) and marks the second priority one.

 

- once target/weapon parameters are met, it issues the launch cue and the weapon(R-77) can be launched without the radar transitioning to STT.

 

I cannot remember how the second priority target is designated - i.e. whether this is automatic(after first launch) or whether you need to move the target cursor over it in order to do so.

 

As far as warnings are concerned - there should be no lock warning on the opposing RWR since the radar is still operating in TWS mode, but there might well be a launch warning(i.e. detecting the radar starting to transmit datalink support for the missiles) depending on the nature of the RWR. Lock warning only comes when the missile's ARH seeker goes active and locks the target - the range at which it does that depends on the RCS of the target, but IIRC the acquisiton range is some 16 km against an RCS of 5m2.

 

The second one is automatic AFAIK, the cross appear over the symbol in the HUD

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