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Hi,

I seen the thread about the update (that is now closed), however I didn't understood the last sentence from Wags, does he means that there won't be any update or that there would be a new update before the end of the month or what?

 

Please no flame... I'm only interested to know what this mean:

 

"Correct. We have stated for sometime that JHMCS, FPAS, Maverick, and updated AA radar are slated for the end fo this month. Nothing has changed."

 

So I can check the updates next week.. or next month. Thanks.

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Hi,

I seen the thread about the update (that is now closed), however I didn't understood the last sentence from Wags, does he means that there won't be any update or that there would be a new update before the end of the month or what?

 

Please no flame... I'm only interested to know what this mean:

 

"Correct. We have stated for sometime that JHMCS, FPAS, Maverick, and updated AA radar are slated for the end fo this month. Nothing has changed."

 

So I can check the updates next week.. or next month. Thanks.

 

"Slated for the end of this month"...

 

"Nothing has changed"...

 

So, you can expect the updates by the end of this month.

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Hi,

I seen the thread about the update (that is now closed), however I didn't understood the last sentence from Wags, does he means that there won't be any update or that there would be a new update before the end of the month or what?

 

Please no flame... I'm only interested to know what this mean:

 

"Correct. We have stated for sometime that JHMCS, FPAS, Maverick, and updated AA radar are slated for the end fo this month. Nothing has changed."

 

So I can check the updates next week.. or next month. Thanks.

 

As Wags stated nothing has changed, so Ed's plan still is to give us the announced features during October.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Many of us expected ED to stay within their 2 weeks update period. That's why expectations were that we'd get those things mentioned today, because the next regular update would be on Nov 7th.

 

We'll get an update this friday simply because of that campaign mentioned in the changelog. Those never came without a general update of DCS. If then still no new Hornet toys are in, expect them to come on 31st.

 

BTW what got me as well is that Wags mentioned there are 4 guys working on Hornet things. I checked the docs I have a few days ago and in the A-10C manual there are 28 programmers listed in the credits, but that was 2010. They got the whole BST team now as well, so "just" 4 isn't that many. Alas, there are so many things being worked on at ED at the same time like MAC, general things like the ATC, LSO, carrier things, dynamic campaign, weather engine, improvement of rendering engine, integration of 3rd party modules like HB's Tomcat which comes with tons of new general features and even other modules that are on the roadmap already. Also, probably not everybody is a specialist at certain things that are needed in the process of getting the Hornet's systems done right now. So this number might as well grow in the next few weeks or month and most probably is not static.

 

I'm gonna check out those Viggen changes now rainbowdashwink.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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Since I‘ve been reading this all over the place now I think it is time to clear sth up:

 

Yes, Wags mentioned 4 particular developers and their current and next duties. How many folks jump to the conclusion „What? Just 4 devs working on the Hornet AT ALL?“ puzzles me.

 

The 4 devs were mentioned because these are the guys and gals that are working on the visible next features (JHMCS,FPAS,AGM-65E) and fixes (B-sweep) that are scheduled to come to OB by end of October. These were likely mentioned since these are additions/improvements many players are looking for.

 

By far this doesn‘t imply there are just 4 devs actively working on stuff for the Hornet! None of the mentioned 4 developers might be the guy who works on the ATFLIR implementation (which as we‘ve been told is intended to come along with an entirely revamped algorithm for the IR imagery in DCS). So we might already have 5 guys working on the Hornet, yet wags didn‘t mention No.5 since he or she is not working on sth we are supposed to get until end of October, so short term - which is what the first part of that Mini-Upadate was all about.

 

Comparing the number of 4 to the number of Devs reported to have worked on other module is entirely nonsense. I‘m sure none of the 4 mentioned worked on the visual model and graphics of the Hornet and likely different people have developed the flight model.

 

Wags gave us a snapshot of the ongoing development focused on the short term and high visibility items. It was an unusual act of providing deep insights and I and many of us I think very much appreciated that. However, with all the wrong conclusions drawn by many based on the information kindly provided by Wags, I fear he might hesitate to repeat that in the future.


Edited by Hog_No32
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A complaint

 

Well, I submitted a complaint several months ago and nobody is addressing it:

 

I loaned my CF-18 to an American newbie a while ago and he tried to land on the Stennis. He did land, of course, but now my seat smells like pee. I asked ED if they would change the seat cushion but nobody has answered.

 

I'm afraid I am just going to have to take my pocket knife and rip the cushion out myself and put in a new one. Will this void my warranty?

 

Other than that, I love my Hornet.

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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Well, I submitted a complaint several months ago and nobody is addressing it:

 

I loaned my CF-18 to an American newbie a while ago and he tried to land on the Stennis. He did land, of course, but now my seat smells like pee. I asked ED if they would change the seat cushion but nobody has answered.

 

I'm afraid I am just going to have to take my pocket knife and rip the cushion out myself and put in a new one. Will this void my warranty?

 

Other than that, I love my Hornet.

 

Could be worse :)

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Since I‘ve been reading this all over the place now I think it is time to clear sth up:

 

Yes, Wags mentioned 4 particular developers and their current and next duties. How many folks jump to the conclusion „What? Just 4 devs working on the Hornet AT ALL?“ puzzles me.

 

The 4 devs were mentioned because these are the guys and gals that are working on the visible next features (JHMCS,FPAS,AGM-65E) and fixes (B-sweep) that are scheduled to come to OB by end of October. These were likely mentioned since these are additions/improvements many players are looking for.

 

By far this doesn‘t imply there are just 4 devs actively working on stuff for the Hornet! None of the mentioned 4 developers might be the guy who works on the ATFLIR implementation (which as we‘ve been told is intended to come along with an entirely revamped algorithm for the IR imagery in DCS). So we might already have 5 guys working on the Hornet, yet wags didn‘t mention No.5 since he or she is not working on sth we are supposed to get until end of October, so short term - which is what the first part of that Mini-Upadate was all about.

 

Comparing the number of 4 to the number of Devs reported to have worked on other module is entirely nonsense. I‘m sure none of the 4 mentioned worked on the visual model and graphics of the Hornet and likely different people have developed the flight model.

 

Wags gave us a snapshot of the ongoing development focused on the short term and high visibility items. It was an unusual act of providing deep insights and I and many of us I think very much appreciated that. However, with all the wrong conclusions drawn by many based on the information kindly provided by Wags, I fear he might hesitate to repeat that in the future.

 

The reason that most are jumping to that conclusion is because based on how Wag's worded the post that is how many people are working on the Hornet systems at the moment or to take a direct line "We, for the most part, have four guys working on Hornet systems and here is what they are working on:"

 

now most are missing the 'for the most part' which means they are likely ramping up/down as required but he does specifically state 'four people' on the hornet system team there, what I find a little more concerning and also a little more a 'so thats why we still don't have agr' is this line:

 

"Supporting tech like the A/G radar (we lost our original engineer on this) and an improved FLIR rendering system are in work and are fundamental to A/G radar implementation and the ATFLIR."

 

It explains why we don't have the Air to Ground radar, but doesn't give any information on how much of a delay we can expect on those features because of the loss of the engineer working on it. And for some of us the Air to Ground radar was the big selling point (other then you know hornet) and with out the AGR then the hornet doesn't even make a lot 1 hornet let alone a lot 20 ;). But it's early access I get that and Wag's has been very open with all of us about the majority of delays on things. What I think has people concerned maybe the most is that there was a steady stream of updates prior to the Northern Hemisphere's summer 'break' then since that break a major reduction in the speed of the updates and the 'depth' of them so to speak. Of course at the same time I think people also tend to forget that some times things just take longer to happen and throwing more people at them doesn't necessarily make it 'faster' either, the AGR is likely a great example of this (as much as I really want it) which is that they have to do the core API for the main sim, which likely doesn't need a dedicated Hornet coder at the moment to do the work, same goes for the ATFLIR that's core systems work though for some of us ED would likely find if they asked again we'd rather see those systems 'sooner' then 'later' but then you ask this community anything you get several thousand different replies ;).

 

But the TLDR version is yes people are saying/believing that there are only more or less 4 programmers working on the hornet, because if you read wag's own post it reads as we have 4 dedicated programmers on the hornet.

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Since I‘ve been reading this all over the place now I think it is time to clear sth up:

 

You missed the point, I was going in the same direction rainbowdashwink.png

 

I said that more than just the 4 guys are working on things that also benefit the Hornet's development, like carrier ATC, LSO. Didn't explicitly mention the IR code or general AG radar though, but meant that as well. So even if there would be 3 guys working on AG radar code, but not directly on the Hornet's AG radar mode, they still do it for the Hornet as well. Wags listed the ones who actively bring us the next things we'll get.

 

And those 28 guys mentioned in the A-10C manual are just programmers. They don't do graphics. There are some 15ish artists mentioned, plus other teams as well. Just wanted to point out that the ED team is bigger than one might think. Before looking there, I myself thought they'd be something around 20-30 people max, but apparently they're rather as big as 70-100 in total.

 

Initially I was, probably like others as well, shocked about it "just" being 4 guys doing Hornet work, but after thinking about it, I wrote what I wrote, not complaining about anything.

 

BTW I've just seen two others even commenting on that as well.

 

After all, yours and the others' posts on this issue help clarifying for those who might still be wondering twilightsmile.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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I think it's just one guy with multiple (4) personalities... oh wait... that's me:huh:

 

Which you?:)

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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Brace yourselves, updates with new toys just got 'delayed' by a week. Take cover or grab some popcorn y'all.

''Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction.''

Erich Fromm

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Brace yourselves, updates with new toys just got 'delayed' by a week. Take cover or grab some popcorn y'all.

 

ED really needs to get their things together in terms of PR and how they handle announcements. We have the original post that speculates these features are coming by the end of the month and nothing happens, then we have Wags explicitly say that these feature are still on track to be released by Octobers end, and now we have ED explicitly saying that they are not coming out before the end of October...

 

Personally I can wait the extra week for the features, but it is causing tremendous confusion amongst the community and it also makes ED seem untrustworthy and unreliable with their promises, which is a MASSIVE no no for public relations. We shouldn't have three different answers coming from the same company about one subject, things like this should be handled in meetings long before a word is ever said to the costumers. When I worked in marketing we would have our plans and announcements scheduled sometimes months in advanced and only people who know what to or what not to say were given permission to speak on the subject as to not create confusion, If you didn't know the definitive answer to the question it was your responsibility to defer the customer to a member of the team who did know.

 

Again, It's not necessarily the waiting that people are having a problem with. It's the constant back and forth of "Will it be released today like promised? or will it be pushed back, again". There should be 0 mentions of a release in your updates unless the product is ready for release, not "on track for release", READY for release.

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I say be careful with your emotions. It takes only one person to ruin another’s luxury. I just hope this doesn’t discourage ED from giving us correspondence or approximations of upcoming releases. Stay cool.

 

 

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Aplogies then, Eldur as I obviously got you wrong. Thanks for clarifying!

 

No problem dealwithit.png

 

Personally I can wait the extra week for the features, but it is causing tremendous confusion amongst the community and it also makes ED seem untrustworthy and unreliable with their promises, which is a MASSIVE no no for public relations.

 

I know by my own experience, that anything project alike which involves programming, never has been finished on a given "release date". Never. Simply because that's absolutely impossible. It always takes longer. But it's usually the marketing guys who still push pressure to acquire that deadline nevertheless. What we get because of that are things like Windows 10 which still is in Early Access even though Microsoft never would admit it. That will never work out. ED obvioulsly knows they have to take their time needed fsgrin.png

 

I'm just giggling at all those who chanted "October isn't over yet" pinkiepieexcited.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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Maybe they should stop talking about what's coming and when. When it's done it will be released. Simple.

 

It doesn't work like this, it's a company that is selling a product, you can't deal with your customers (the ones that are paying your salary, that are basically your employer) like strangers that should blindly follow you, neither it would work the naive sentences like: "if you don't like this, don't buy it...", whoever comes with this idea of "early product" doesn't know anything about the gaming industry.

 

Instead you must communicate with your customers, and you must communicate properly, and if something doesn't go as planned (it happens!) it's your solely your mistake (because you didn't carefully planned your work) and you post your excuses, with the details of what happened and you'll accept all the critics from your customers.

 

This is how the game industry works, and this is what you do if you want to have success in this world (they didn't started with this job yesterday, don't think they are a bunch of noobs or a alone developer launching its 1 man game on steam EA).

 

Said this, I will happily wait another week (I mean.. 7 days.. it's just 7 days, wtf), but those ppl blabbing with "it's early access.." .. "have patience..." "if you don't like don't buy it.." ...doesn't know the basics of this world.

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