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It doesn't work like this, it's a company that is selling a product, you can't deal with your customers (the ones that are paying your salary, that are basically your employer) like strangers that should blindly follow you, neither it would work the naive sentences like: "if you don't like this, don't buy it...", whoever comes with this idea of "early product" doesn't know anything about the gaming industry.

 

Instead you must communicate with your customers, and you must communicate properly, and if something doesn't go as planned (it happens!) it's your solely your mistake (because you didn't carefully planned your work) and you post your excuses, with the details of what happened and you'll accept all the critics from your customers.

 

This is how the game industry works, and this is what you do if you want to have success in this world (they didn't started with this job yesterday, don't think they are a bunch of noobs or a alone developer launching its 1 man game on steam EA).

 

Said this, I will happily wait another week (I mean.. 7 days.. it's just 7 days, wtf), but those ppl blabbing with "it's early access.." .. "have patience..." "if you don't like don't buy it.." ...doesn't know the basics of this world.

 

Sorry, but that's not how the gaming industry works. I'm very involved with the race sim industry. Nothing is promised as far as dates are concerned. They say what's coming with no dates. That way you get no whining and disappointment.

 

The way Ed does it sets it up for problems.

Buzz

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Do not be surprised if Matt pulls back on any time lines for F-18 updates. Consider yourself lucky if you get any updates at all after all this. It's one of the reasons why ED has been hush hush in the past. I would love to have everything today that is planned for the F-18 as much as the next guy, but we have to exercise some patience and understand that there are snags in the development process. These are complicated systems after all.

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Sorry, but that's not how the gaming industry works. I'm very involved with the race sim industry. Nothing is promised

 

You will fail .. unless you distribute free products. Disappointed customers are very voicy on the net.

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Do not be surprised if Matt pulls back on any time lines for F-18 updates. Consider yourself lucky if you get any updates at all after all this. It's one of the reasons why ED has been hush hush in the past. I would love to have everything today that is planned for the F-18 as much as the next guy, but we have to exercise some patience and understand that there are snags in the development process. These are complicated systems after all.

 

+1

 

Well said.

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Do not be surprised if Matt pulls back on any time lines for F-18 updates. Consider yourself lucky if you get any updates at all after all this. It's one of the reasons why ED has been hush hush in the past. I would love to have everything today that is planned for the F-18 as much as the next guy, but we have to exercise some patience and understand that there are snags in the development process. These are complicated systems after all.

 

+1 +maybe some of you guys noticed that we had a F-18 dev news thread which was updated at least once a week...

 

Does anybody remember the old times when patches came every three weeks or so without announcement?

 

It would be a pity if we go back to this times where the boards were much more quite in my opinion but today people get out their pitchforks because the Wednesday patch is late or even worse, the Wednesday patch does not contain everything a specific player expected :fear:

I could understand the Dev's if they go that way...

 

Joke aside, does anybody doubt that the torches are ready to "celebrate" the Tomcat release no matter how positive the current mood is?


Edited by FSKRipper

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You will fail .. unless you distribute free products. Disappointed customers are very voicy on the net.

 

They aren't failing. You let the public (customers) know what's coming but don't give dates. Maybe a time period but not specific dates.

Buzz

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Well, let me weigh in on this discussion.

 

Many years ago, I was a systems analyst as well as teaching it (back in the early 80's when Cobol and Fortran were the popular things for coding). I never ever let a bit of software out to a customer that hadn't been thoroughly debugged. We guaranteed it. A simple inventory system that took several months to code also took well over a year to test, debug, document, and finally trial run on test data at the client's system before the client even thought about running it on live data.

 

We simply did not have a bug. Ever. We could not afford it. Our entire reputation depended on the fact that what we said would work, did work.

 

Because our software was flawless, and advertised as such, our reputation went viral and our company made a fortune. I moved on into AI research.

 

Today, we have beta releases, closed beta releases, open beta releases, early access, and, I believe I even saw some company offering a pre-alpha game (although I believe it was offered for free.)

 

Nonetheless, today, it is what it is. The thing that causes me to shake my head is exactly what moco pointed out. ED's announcements are extremely frustrating to its customers.

 

I, too, can wait an extra week, month, or even year. But if you tell me you will have something for me next month, when that month comes about, I get a bit cynical when nothing comes out to me.

 

Give me a fully functional Hornet (as my first company would have back in the 80's) or, if this is the way its got to be today, give me pieces of a Hornet. But don't wave a carrot in front of me and then pull it away.


Edited by =Mac=

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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You will fail .. unless you distribute free products. Disappointed customers are very voicy on the net.

 

What is the problem? What fantastic function was promised this Wednesday (nothing at all if I remember)? If they deliver next Wednesday everything is in time. Where is your problem?

 

And maybe some of you guys didn't get it yet: ED and even Tacview are in the military business, We don't know their numbers but according to other companies of their size our part is more like pocket money. That doesn't mean we are supposed to take everything but I would expect they could be without us, other way around could be difficult :music_whistling:


Edited by FSKRipper

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What is the problem? What fantastic function was promised this Wednesday (nothing at all if I remember)? If they deliver next Wednesday everything is in time. Where is your problem?

 

And maybe some of you guys didn't get it yet: ED and even Tacview are in the military business, We don't know their numbers but according to other companies of their size our part is more like pocket money. That doesn't mean we are supposed to take everything but I would expect they could be without us, other way around could be difficult :music_whistling:

 

They aren't delivering next Wednesday, that's the problem, we wont get the promised features until November now. Most of us dissenters (the more mature ones at least) don't have a problem with things being delayed. I'm 100% OK with the Hornet being in early access and not being complete for the next two years.

 

The problem, which several people have tried to make clear just to get side-stepped, is that we were told we'd be getting Mavericks by end of October, this is a big deal because (as the poll showed) a vast majority of Hornet players are primarily interested in A2G and this would be the first new A2G capability and the first PGM to be added to the Hornet, so we're all pretty excited.

 

Now, when we didn't get them this past Wednesday, which is the last scheduled Beta release of the month, people got a bit agitated because we were told and reassured we'd get them in October by Wags. So people get agitated and start a thread, then Wags comes into the thread and reassures us AGAIN that we'd still be getting LMAVs in October, Not to worry comrades! So whew, crisis averted right? Nope, 1 day after that and we're told in the newsletter that release of these things is delayed until the next scheduled beta release (Nov 7), to quote ED "They're ready but they want to stick to the published beta schedule"

 

So now all those people who were annoyed that we didn't get them last Wednesday, and were reassured by Wags himself that we would still get them, only to get rug pulled out from under us today, are rightfully feeling a bit slighted. Now, if Wags had never said we'd get these things by end of October and instead just said "These are our priorities and we're working on them, we'll release as soon as they're done" and left it at that, problem solved, no dates were given and we'd have no reason to complain, and again the more mature of us *wouldn't* complain about that. But we *were* given dates, and we *were* mis-lead by ED about it. That's why we're upset.


Edited by gekoiq
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they stated a release date and failed to meet it, it is what it is. no need to go through mental gymnastics to defend them

 

Would you be so kind to give me the exact date (dd/mm/yy) and the according feature? If it is a game stopper, an important feature like the AG/radar, the HARM or even the TWS, I will be on your side from this day on.

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Would you be so kind to give me the exact date (dd/mm/yy) and the according feature? If it is a game stopper, an important feature like the AG/radar, the HARM or even the TWS, I will be on your side from this day on.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3666859&postcount=102

 

LMavs by end of October. Not a game stopper, but the first new A2G in the Hornet, the first PGM. Not a promise, but a date that was given multiple times and reassured by Wags multiple times.

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Would you be so kind to give me the exact date (dd/mm/yy) and the according feature? If it is a game stopper, an important feature like the AG/radar, the HARM or even the TWS, I will be on your side from this day on.

 

it was stated multiple times that jhcms was planned for release by the end of the month along with other minor things. look it up for yourself

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They aren't delivering next Wednesday, that's the problem, we wont get the promised features until November now.

 

And this you know by asking your crystal ball or a PM from Wags?

 

The problem, which several people have tried to make clear just to get side-stepped, is that we were told we'd be getting Mavericks by end of October, this is a big deal because (as the poll showed) a vast majority of Hornet players are primarily interested in A2G and this would be the first new A2G capability and the first PGM to be added to the Hornet, so we're all pretty excited.

 

See my answer above… Otherwise you would have to wait ONE more week. Hey, a guy who said he can wait two years for the final version should have no problem with 7 days, right? :huh:

 

I won't comment on the other stuff but if you would be more in the actual development you would know that we got patches on Friday and not every second Wednesday was an Open Beta patch. This is not a law! :music_whistling:

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https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3666859&postcount=102

 

LMavs by end of October. Not a game stopper, but the first new A2G in the Hornet, the first PGM. Not a promise, but a date that was given multiple times and reassured by Wags multiple times.

 

it was stated multiple times that jhcms was planned for release by the end of the month along with other minor things. look it up for yourself

 

Come on guys, today is the 26th of October, next Wednesday is the 31st! Be so kind and spare your complains for next Thursday…

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And this you know by asking your crystal ball or a PM from Wags?

 

 

Not from my crystal ball but from ED themselves, per the newsletter:

 

While new Hornet features and fixes like the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS), FPAS page, laser Maverick, and corrected air-to-air radar B-sweep are still on track to be ready next week, we need to adhere to our Open Beta release schedule and have time for proper internal-testing of these complex items. As such, these will be released in the next, scheduled Open Beta release on 7 November 2018.

 

It is only one week, I have no problem with waiting one week. I have a problem with a developer mis-leading us, teasing a feature, giving us a date and not delivering on that.

 

Every other Wednesday is in ED's own words their published open-beta schedule, yes there are exceptions, but per the newsletter (which I've pasted above for you) that IS their schedule.


Edited by gekoiq
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Not from my crystal ball but from ED themselves, per the newsletter:

It is only one week, I have no problem with waiting one week.

 

So why complain today???

 

I have a problem with a developer mis-leading us, teasing a feature, giving us a date and not delivering on that.

 

As you said above they didn't do that, they have still time...

 

Every other Wednesday is in ED's own words their published open-beta schedule, yes there are exceptions, but per the newsletter (which I've pasted above for you) that IS their schedule.

 

Do you have a mature guess how often their patch schedule worked as timed? Don't fix on old statements, if you got nothing by next week complain, but otherwise everything (even from people stating they can wait another week!) is working as scheduled at the moment.


Edited by FSKRipper

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Not from my crystal ball but from ED themselves, per the newsletter:

 

While new Hornet features and fixes like the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS), FPAS page, laser Maverick, and corrected air-to-air radar B-sweep are still on track to be ready next week, we need to adhere to our Open Beta release schedule and have time for proper internal-testing of these complex items. As such, these will be released in the next, scheduled Open Beta release on 7 November 2018.

 

It is only one week, I have no problem with waiting one week. I have a problem with a developer mis-leading us, teasing a feature, giving us a date and not delivering on that.

 

Every other Wednesday is in ED's own words their published open-beta schedule, yes there are exceptions, but per the newsletter (which I've pasted above for you) that IS their schedule.

 

And so I blamed myself and ask kindly for pardon. To test the Laser Maverick, the FPAS page and the complex JHMCS, ED really needs one week to make sure it won't break the whole game. I hope you guys can keep up this time, since I'm already 39 I will do my best!

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They aren't failing. You let the public (customers) know what's coming but don't give dates. Maybe a time period but not specific dates.

 

"They" who? We aren't talking about ED... we're talking about someone who doesn't give constant updates to their customers or even worse giving contradicting information. That one (that isn't ED) is destined to fail. Customers are the ones who are paying you.. not your beta testers. And this involves the early access products: they are 100% sold product, they are put on sale to monetize early a product and not to please some random people, whoever will pay for it is a 100% customer not a beta tester. If you don't want to have people complain: do not release anything in EA and pay your beta testers until the release day (that was a common development practice until thie "EA" manner come out in mass).

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What is the problem?

 

It's not my problem.. but yours: if you read carefully I was answering to someone else, I wasn't talking about ED, but about who do not respect their customers with the excuse of "early access".

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"They" who? We aren't talking about ED... we're talking about someone who doesn't give constant updates to their customers or even worse giving contradicting information. That one (that isn't ED) is destined to fail. Customers are the ones who are paying you.. not your beta testers. And this involves the early access products: they are 100% sold product, they are put on sale to monetize early a product and not to please some random people, whoever will pay for it is a 100% customer not a beta tester. If you don't want to have people complain: do not release anything in EA and pay your beta testers until the release day (that was a common development practice until thie "EA" manner come out in mass).

 

Go back and read the posts again.

Buzz

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