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MiG-29G


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In the HUD you have and indication about the weapons selected.

 

Touche. I need to get more sleep and drink less coffee.

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No the armament of the MiG-29G is the same as for the standard 9.12 - the German modifications did not involve the combat aspect.

 

So in terms of air-to-air armament, its compatible with the R-27R, R-73 and R-60.

 

 

 

 

Concerning the combat aspect this is actually not entirely true. In later years we actually used the R-27R1 on our G model. That gave us a little more range and the seeker head was also improved in various aspects. The R-27T in whichever form was never used in the GAF due to performance issues but the missile itself was tested though for suitability when we inherited the armament inventory of the EGAF. I am not allowed to go into detail on that, however. Also, we used the R-60MK with a modified seeker head to work more effectively with the HMS. And as a third step to increase combat potential there was the well known addition of wing droptanks. So, these were small steps in terms of combat potential but we did add some features during her servicelife.

 

Stores switching is as described above...

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Doing some research i think i´ve found the button on the throttle.

 

First: In the Su-27 there are a button to select external stores labeled " ВЫБОР ПОДВЕСОК ", that means Suspension Selection.

 

Yes and thats what confused me, because this button is not on the MiG-29 throttle.

 

Then i was searching for something similar in the Mig-29 throttle and i´ve found this:

 

As you can see, below the Airbrake slider there are a button labeled B.П. that fits the same " ВЫБОР ПОДВЕСОК "

 

Yes but that for the CM dispenser and I couldn't really see how this could have an alternate function as pylon selector. I have seen the switch panel by the chute button a thousand times while working on my cockpit model, so I really don't know how I could forget about it.

 

I don't know what the deal is with the second throttle pic though - looks weird, but maybe you are right that its from an early MiG-29.

JJ

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Concerning the combat aspect this is actually not entirely true. In later years we actually used the R-27R1 on our G model.

 

But thats just the export variant of the missile isn't it?

 

That gave us a little more range and the seeker head was also improved in various aspects.

 

By default or by modification?

 

The R-27T in whichever form was never used in the GAF due to performance issues

 

Yes I remember reading an article by a Luftwaffe MiG-29 pilot, saying that their aircraft weren't compatible with the -T.

 

but the missile itself was tested though for suitability when we inherited the armament inventory of the EGAF. I am not allowed to go into detail on that, however. Also, we used the R-60MK with a modified seeker head to work more effectively with the HMS.

 

Interesting - didn't know that :)

 

And as a third step to increase combat potential there was the well known addition of wing droptanks. So, these were small steps in terms of combat potential but we did add some features during her servicelife.

 

Well yes but by "combat aspect", I was referring specifically the the WCS/armament :) .

JJ

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This is in pylon selection in 29...

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=196640&stc=1&d=1540539500

 

Exactly!

 

Yes of course :doh: - don't know where my brain is at the moment.

 

Thanks for coming to the rescue Askerov24 and Vatikus :)

 

;)

 

Yes and thats what confused me, because this button is not on the MiG-29 throttle.

 

 

 

Yes but that for the CM dispenser and I couldn't really see how this could have an alternate function as pylon selector. I have seen the switch panel by the chute button a thousand times while working on my cockpit model, so I really don't know how I could forget about it.

 

 

I don't know what the deal is with the second throttle pic though - looks weird, but maybe you are right that its from an early MiG-29.

 

Maybe it's from 9-51? UB doesn't have dispensers.

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Also to be noted... in real plane that "inboard/outboard" pylon switch only alters the sequence. from 1,2,3,4,5,6 to 5,6,3,4,1,2.

 

WCS will of course help with selection as well.. for example, if "inboard" is selected, and target is under the Dmin for R27, it will autoselect short range missile...

 

 

 

More recent mig29 versions have updated throttle quadrants with more controls on them.

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Ah yes of course - no tailfin root extensions with the CM dispensers like on the 9.12.

 

Like I said - my brain is on vacation at the moment :D .

 

:D it happens ))

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Salvo Mode / Burst

 

Guys,

the key command list shows two entries for Salvo Mode and Burst Select. BUt there sems to be no effect, there´s alway two bombs release at a time, the rockets seem to need one trigger per round... Am I handling that thing wrong? Or do these commands have really no effect?

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But thats just the export variant of the missile isn't it?

 

 

 

By default or by modification?

 

 

 

Yes I remember reading an article by a Luftwaffe MiG-29 pilot, saying that their aircraft weren't compatible with the -T.

 

 

 

Interesting - didn't know that :)

 

 

 

Well yes but by "combat aspect", I was referring specifically the the WCS/armament :) .

 

 

Well, the R-27R1 actually is an enhanced and modified R-27R. It was also used in the RuAF inventory and is no specific export variant for the non-domestic market. So, enhanced weapon performance was by design. You had roughly 5nm more range than the baseline model had and an improved performance against low flying targets (seeker head could better distinguish between ground clutter and target). Another improvement was added resistance to countermeasures (specifically chaff). The baseline R-27R performance was really bad so it was a welcome improvement for the GAF.

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Well, the R-27R1 actually is an enhanced and modified R-27R. It was also used in the RuAF inventory and is no specific export variant for the non-domestic market. So, enhanced weapon performance was by design. You had roughly 5nm more range than the baseline model had and an improved performance against low flying targets (seeker head could better distinguish between ground clutter and target). Another improvement was added resistance to countermeasures (specifically chaff). The baseline R-27R performance was really bad so it was a welcome improvement for the GAF.

 

Interesting information (as I also got the wrong impression reading online that the R-27R1 designation was for the export and slightly downgraded variant).

 

There used to be a website about the German MiG-29 squadron and there were some pilot impressions on the missiles posted and I do remember it mentioning how they were disappointed with the R-27R range. They never mentioned the R1 variant, though.

 

Can you please comment if the plane could carry a mixed R-60MK and R-73 loadout (as I read that it wasn't possible, at least on the initial standard) and if so, how would you switch between those?

 

Also, if you can comment on the performance of the N019 radar compared to e.g. the APG-65 installed on the F-4F Phantoms later on?


Edited by Dudikoff

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Well, the R-27R1 actually is an enhanced and modified R-27R. It was also used in the RuAF inventory and is no specific export variant for the non-domestic market. So, enhanced weapon performance was by design. You had roughly 5nm more range than the baseline model had and an improved performance against low flying targets (seeker head could better distinguish between ground clutter and target). Another improvement was added resistance to countermeasures (specifically chaff). The baseline R-27R performance was really bad so it was a welcome improvement for the GAF.

 

Thats interesting - I never realised that the -R1 was improved compared to the original.

 

Thanks :) .

JJ

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Guys,

the key command list shows two entries for Salvo Mode and Burst Select. BUt there sems to be no effect, there´s alway two bombs release at a time, the rockets seem to need one trigger per round... Am I handling that thing wrong? Or do these commands have really no effect?

in DCS Salvo mode will select all rocket pylons. Without only pair is selected. How many you fire is related to how long you hold your trigger.

For bombs, same.

For missiles, pair will launch with salvo mode.

Burst is only for gun - either bursts (default mode), or continues.

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For missiles, pair will launch with salvo mode.

 

Yeah, but it's worth adding that they're not launched both immediately. There's a certain delay (3-4 seconds at least, IIRC) added to avoid the engine of the first missile interfering with the seeker of the following missile.

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Yeah, but it's worth adding that they're not launched both immediately. There's a certain delay (3-4 seconds at least, IIRC) added to avoid the engine of the first missile interfering with the seeker of the following missile.

No, you are mixing launching IR & radar type... what I wrote is "salvo launch mode" of 2 missiles of the same type.

In real life, 0.16s for r60/r73 and 0.4s for r27r between the missiles. In DCS dunno, but I think it's close...

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No, you are mixing launching IR & radar type... what I wrote is "salvo launch mode" of 2 missiles of the same type.

In real life, 0.16s for r60/r73 and 0.4s for r27r between the missiles. In DCS dunno, but I think it's close...

 

The manual for the Yugoslav MiG-29 actually states 0.25s for the R-27R1 missile, but I'm convinced that I've read something about not firing the heat-seekers immediately one after another. I'll check the other manual.

 

Edit: The manual does say that the second missile SHOULD be launched after 4-7 seconds after the first one for the reasons I mentioned earlier. It's just that the system won't provide this function automatically. It says that you have to hold the trigger for 3.5-4 seconds to launch the second missile IF the first one fails to launch; I thought this time was regarding the salvo launch for IR missiles, my mistake.

 

But, according to the same manual, I guess it's possible to mix R-60MK's (and I guess R-73 missiles as the manual doesn't mention any other type than R-60MK) as it states it's possible to have different types of "self-guided" missiles as long as the same types have are on the opposite pylons.

 

I see now the inner/outer selector function description. It basically just selects the order of selecting the pylons (inner towards outer ones or the other way around) rather than pylons themselves.

 

But that makes me wonder if you had a mixed R-60 and R-73 loadout together with two R-27R's in some mode where both short range and long range missiles could be selected, how would you select the type on the mid pylons to fire first?


Edited by Dudikoff

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Maybe I am not clear enough... we are talking here about DCS' SALVO firing mode! Not firing singles one by one in short interval!

 

So as you have manual, take a look at the bottom, page 01.0.316 where it talks about KOMPLET firing mode. It's on the same page as you got info about pylon stations which I also already explained earlier. It is a WCS option selected and manual pylon order combo to get to the middle (i.e. using EOS only, radar missile will be ignored).

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Maybe I am not clear enough... we are talking here about DCS' SALVO firing mode! Not firing singles one by one in short interval!

 

Which part of "my mistake" didn't you understand? I said I mistook the timing for holding the trigger in case of a failed launch for the automatic delay in salvo mode.

 

If your comment was referring to the launch delay amount for the R-27R1, this is what I have:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=196652&stc=1&d=1540563651

 

So as you have manual, take a look at the bottom, page 01.0.316 where it talks about KOMPLET firing mode. It's on the same page as you got info about pylon stations which I also already explained earlier. It is a WCS option selected and manual pylon order combo to get to the middle (i.e. using EOS only, radar missile will be ignored).

 

And I asked specifically what would happen in a mode where both R-27 and short range missiles are supported (so all three types are valid), not a close combat mode where obviously the switch could toggle between the two outer pylon pairs only.

 

But I guess I could spin the same problem to a close combat mode as well. E.g. if you had R-60MK's on both the outermost and innermost pylons (i.e. 5,6 and 1,2) and R-73's on the middle pylons (3,4), how would you select the latter?

749104160_mig-29salvo.thumb.jpg.b14a3273df7c30945f215b47cd4f5c06.jpg


Edited by Dudikoff

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Miscommunication 4tw .. No worries... ;)

The way I see our conversation is that we are talking about 2 different things when it comes to "salvo"... one is using single(1) press to launch 2 missiles - timings are sub seconds, one is using 2 trigger presses to launch 2 missiles - timings (multiple seconds) and the reason are what you wrote.

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Miscommunication 4tw .. No worries... ;)

The way I see our conversation is that we are talking about 2 different things when it comes to "salvo"... one is using single(1) press to launch 2 missiles - timings are sub seconds, one is using 2 trigger presses to launch 2 missiles - timings (multiple seconds) and the reason are what you wrote.

 

So, if I understood correctly, you're trying to say that if salvo mode is used there won't be any problems regarding missile interference?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=196654&stc=1&d=1540565317

 

It says: "The launch of the following missile with an IR-seeker (pair of missiles) is to be done 4-7 seconds after launching the first or after the first missile flies beyond the target to avoid locking of operating engines of the previously launched missiles".

 

It's not really written clearly.

154682414_mig-29irmissiledelay.thumb.jpg.3cf6c41227b1d126e6054ae6c03bfdb8.jpg


Edited by Dudikoff

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

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in DCS Salvo mode will select all rocket pylons. Without only pair is selected. How many you fire is related to how long you hold your trigger.

For bombs, same.

For missiles, pair will launch with salvo mode.

Burst is only for gun - either bursts (default mode), or continues.

 

 

Allright, that´s what i thought it should be.. Will the status of the salvo mode be shown anywhere in the cockpit? The manual doesn´t show anything concering that...

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So, if I understood correctly, you're trying to say that if salvo mode is used there won't be any problems regarding missile interference?

Exactly. As missile heads will not see eachother as they are launched almost at same instant. This was done to avoid issue of head locking onto the engine which will happen if you launch in series if not following the section you also quoted.

 

 

As for your r27,r73,r60 example... you cannot select r73 if r27 is present and radar is also used. At least not on 9.12. 9.13 documentation I have does not give any r60 use no more as r73 replaces it so this problem is not present.

 

 

DCS uses fantasy weapon selection and mixing, so it is not a problem for us either :D

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