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New Pilot and understanding carrier course heading.


domo67

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hello everyone.

 

i'm a beginner and terribly sorry if this question, 1. has already been answered in another post and 2. is utterly dumb.

 

my question is regarding case 1 recovery in the hornet. basically i am at loss with locating the correct course line heading when beginning the landing process. i simply don't understand where i get this info from. once i have the tacan info entered, i see a heading in the top left of the hsi along with the carrier name and distance. i enter that into the course heading and follow it. however, im always slightly off and i never seem to be on the correct course with the carrier.

 

would someone be kind enough to explain what im missing?

 

many thanks.

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The easiest methods I’ve seen are:

- set it whilst on deck and before launch

- look in the F10 map and click on the carrier, you’ll be show the course of the ship

- during case 1, set it as you fly alongside the ship

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This is not a stupid question. The problem is increased by poor explanations and inconsistent definitions from well-meaning but often inaccurate inputs from other Forum users. The matter is further confused by nobody explaining whether they are using True, Magnetic, or Grid directions. I will use Magnetic direction - indicated by a M after the direction or the bearing. For the DCS Caucasus this will be about 6 degrees less that the true direction or bearing.

 

The Carrier steers a course, which is the direction it is travelling in, and is called the Base Recovery Course (BRC). For the purposes of this explanation We will assume that the BRC is 360M. However, the flight deck is offset from the Carrier’s fore-and-aft axis by about 9 degrees. So the flight deck is pointing to 351M. This direction is termed the Final Bearing (FB). In addition, because the carrier is moving, and there will,be a wind blowing, the actual direction you will need to steer in your F-18, to stay lined up with the flight deck will be slightly different. If the carrier is steering into wind (which it should normally be doing),you will actually have to steer about a degree or two right of the FB - say, around 352M or 353M. This is exactly the same effect as landing on a fixed airfield with a cross-wind from the right.

 

I could go on, but you will be pleased to know that I won’t. However, I hope I have satisfied you that you are not stupid. If you still don’t understand, it is ore likely to be that I have not explained it well. In which case, come back to me and I will try and clear any remaining confusion.

 

One final point is that if you are measuring directions for the DCS maps, they will almost certainly NOT be aligned with True or Magnetic North. Because a map is a flat representation of a curved surface it will always have small discrepancies. There is another (in fact many other) north, which is based on the alignment of the map grid. This is Grid North - but let us not go there.

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This is not a stupid question. The problem is increased by poor explanations and inconsistent definitions from well-meaning but often inaccurate inputs from other Forum users. The matter is further confused by nobody explaining whether they are using True, Magnetic, or Grid directions. I will use Magnetic direction - indicated by a M after the direction or the bearing. For the DCS Caucasus this will be about 6 degrees less that the true direction or bearing.

 

The Carrier steers a course, which is the direction it is travelling in, and is called the Base Recovery Course (BRC). For the purposes of this explanation We will assume that the BRC is 360M. However, the flight deck is offset from the Carrier’s fore-and-aft axis by about 9 degrees. So the flight deck is pointing to 351M. This direction is termed the Final Bearing (FB). In addition, because the carrier is moving, and there will,be a wind blowing, the actual direction you will need to steer in your F-18, to stay lined up with the flight deck will be slightly different. If the carrier is steering into wind (which it should normally be doing),you will actually have to steer about a degree or two right of the FB - say, around 352M or 353M. This is exactly the same effect as landing on a fixed airfield with a cross-wind from the right.

 

I could go on, but you will be pleased to know that I won’t. However, I hope I have satisfied you that you are not stupid. If you still don’t understand, it is ore likely to be that I have not explained it well. In which case, come back to me and I will try and clear any remaining confusion.

 

One final point is that if you are measuring directions for the DCS maps, they will almost certainly NOT be aligned with True or Magnetic North. Because a map is a flat representation of a curved surface it will always have small discrepancies. There is another (in fact many other) north, which is based on the alignment of the map grid. This is Grid North - but let us not go there.

 

Great stuff. Thanks for this.

 

:thumbup:

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One final point is that if you are measuring directions for the DCS maps, they will almost certainly NOT be aligned with True or Magnetic North.

Directions measured in DCS maps using the F10 ruler EQUAL true bearings as far as aircraft system modelling is concerned.

 

The direction a magnetic compass/HSI in the cockpit of a (full module) aircraft points = F10 map ruler - magnetic variation

 

An exception to this is FC3 aircraft like the F-15C, where the magnetic compass, HSI and HUD all equal the F10 ruler (due to FC3's simpler system modelling).

 

DCS's latitude and longitude grid is not aligned with true north (as measured in an aircraft), so in game is like the MGRS grid in IRL. Flying 0°T in the L-39, AV-8B or using the NS430 will not follow a line of longitude.

Because a map is a flat representation of a curved surface it will always have small discrepancies.

While correct, most errors seem attributable due to rounding i.e. perhaps 120.99° gets truncated to 120°, rather than rounded to 121° and errors are cumulative (<=±2°)

There is another (in fact many other) north, which is based on the alignment of the map grid. This is Grid North - but let us not go there.

The F10 map ruler (Grid North) is rather important though, it equals true north for aircraft systems and unit movement and is the BRA reference called out by ATC, AWACS, etc.

i.e. F10 ruler - Magnetic Variation = Magnetic heading


Edited by Ramsay
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Ramsay, you say that, for DCS, True North is the same as Grid North. Which Grid North? There are 2 Grids on the ME map - MGRS and (I presume) Geographic.

 

I accept that any difference between Mercator Geographic Grid and True North, is quite small. However, they are not identical. What niggles me, is the failure to be able to identify, definitively, that the Geographic Grid is aligned with True North.

 

If you can absolutely assure me that they are the same, I would be very grateful. It’s a bit silly, I know, but as a natural worrier, bordering on OCD, I do feel uncomfortable not being sure.

 

I do wish AWACS and ATC would specify True or Magnetic. As I say a bearing is like saying that I have just walked 100 (miles, parsecs, inches, Martian metres?). Without the units, it becomes meaningless.


Edited by flyco
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Ramsay, you say that, for DCS, True North is the same as Grid North. Which Grid North? There are 2 Grids on the ME map - MGRS and (I presume) Geographic.

Neither Lat/Long or MGRS grids align with true north as measured in a DCS aircraft. True north for the Hornet is shown by the F10 ruler.

 

This is a diagram for the L-39 but should give you the idea :

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=144317&stc=1&d=1468682395


Edited by Ramsay

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I hit F9 to go to shipcam and that gives me the carrier course. My question: Is that heading magnetic or true?

The F9 ship cam heading, is the same as the F10 ruler heading, so true.

 

For example:

 

• I have the CVN-74 Stennis sailing a course of 335°T in the Caucasus map.

 

This is the heading in unit properties, mission planner/editor, measured by the F10 ruler, F9 ship view, etc.

 

• Caucasus MV = 6° E

 

So ...

 

• Base Recovery Course (BRC) = 335° - 6° = 329°M

 

the landing deck is offset -9° to BRC, so ...

 

• Final Bearing (FB) = 329°M - 9° = 320°M

 

As Mule says :

... because the carrier is moving, and there will,be a wind blowing, the actual direction you will need to steer in your F-18, to stay lined up with the flight deck will be slightly different. If the carrier is steering into wind (which it should normally be doing),you will actually have to steer about a degree or two right of the FB

Edited by Ramsay
typo

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The F9 ship cam heading, is the same as the F10 ruler heading, so true.

 

For example:

 

• I have the CVN-74 Stennis sailing a course of 335°T in the Caucasus map.

 

This is the heading in unit properties, mission planner/editor, measured by the F10 ruler, F9 ship view, etc.

 

• Caucasus MV = 6° E

 

So ...

 

• Basic Recovery Course (BRC) = 335° - 6° = 329°M

 

the landing deck is offset -9° to BRC, so ...

 

• Final Bearing (FB) = 329°M - 9° = 320°M

 

As Mule says :

 

Very nice explained! Is correction for PG map also -6 degrees?


Edited by VDV
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Very nice explained! Is correction for PG map also -6 degrees?

The Persian Gulf Magnetic variation is 2° E

 

For example :

 

• I have a CVN-74 Stennis sailing a course of 90°T in the Persian Gulf map.

 

This is the heading in unit properties, mission planner/editor, measured by the F10 ruler, F9 ship view, etc.

 

• Persian Gulf MV = 2° E

 

So ...

 

• Base Recovery Course (BRC) = 90°T - 2° = 88°M

 

the landing deck is offset -9° to BRC, so ...

 

• Final Bearing (FB) = 88°M - 9° = 79°M


Edited by Ramsay
typo

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hello again everyone.

 

thank you all for your input, especially Mr_sukebe, flyco and Ramsay. i will take all your recommendations into my next few flights and let you know if i feel more confident with the course heading input in relation to the carrier bearing.

 

many thanks again.

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  • 3 months later...

Sometiems i am laysy, when i don't know for sure the Carrier heading (since in F-10 it's True North and on the HSI is Magnetic North) i simply change my HSI to True north and it does the job, once i'm on the carrier i can now know it'S heading in Magnetic Noth by switching back. Works on any maps and no need to remember each offsets for each maps and no need to use any rules on any maps as i am flying. But agian, iu'm laysy i let the Hornet do the maths.

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Carrier should tell you BRC, and likely will when the ATC gets updated.

 

Case I recovery: Get it when flying parallel to the ship at point 1, or when flying from the initial, then type it in (mag heading read from the jet)

 

On deck before takeoff: Ground track marker is BRC

 

Also, with current implementation, it's courteous to broadcast BRC to chat when you find it to update others (especially with scripts that turn boats)

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Instead of complicating myself with BRC minus 9 and Magvar, I fly BRC and 1.5 miles ahead of tacan I turn 180 to BRC, then at ships roundabout I turn to the ninety, check 450 then the groove at 400.. I think its best if mission designers allow exact headwind to the final bearing so as not to complicate corrections. This is quite a useful thread with lots of useful info. Thanks OP and everybody!

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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