Mig-29 FM

[Tobi1304]

Well, I haven‘t flown a Real MiG-29, but I have seen quite a lot planes touching down and it never ever looked like they had „Flubber“ under their wheels. And I had quite a lot bouncing landings with the MiG...not only „bouncing“ but catapulting it back into air like it’s weight was more like 200kg and not some tons...

[Mars Exulte]

Well, I haven‘t flown a Real MiG-29, but I have seen quite a lot planes touching down and it never ever looked like they had „Flubber“ under their wheels. And I had quite a lot bouncing landings with the MiG...not only „bouncing“ but catapulting it back into air like it’s weight was more like 200kg and not some tons...

 

Then don't slam down so hard. Bouncing means your sink rate is too high. Seriously there are a dozen videos here now of people landing safely without that. It requires finesse and a particular approach, and yes it really is the way YOU as a pilot are doing it, or every person would do it every time.

[Weta43]

Slightly OT but:

It seems that the super-cruise was invented by the Russians with the Mig-29 not by the Americans with the F-22!

 

No, neither were even close.

 

The first production aircraft to exceed Mach 1 in level flight without afterburners was the English Electric Lightning, first doing so on 11 August 1954

 

Concord super-cruised without reheat and first flew in 1969.

 

F-22 first flew 1996 - that's 42 years after the lightening could super-cruise.

[Stealth29U.K]

Maybe this would work if they changed the options:-

 

Easy = Game mode

Medium= SFM

Hard= PFM

 

(Ive never ever tried game mode,I think that's probably for playstation heads really ,

i.e arcade style )

Edited November 5, 2018 by Stealth29(U.K)

[draconus]

msffb2 and ch pro pedals + track ir 5 here ,and ive never ever played in game mode , if I wanted game mode I wouldn't have DCS ,Id have a playstation

Don't be mad, you're the one who wanted SFM back, and you still can - force the update to the one just before PFM introduction.

[Stealth29U.K]

Don't be mad, you're the one who wanted SFM back, and you still can - force the update to the one just before PFM introduction.

 

no Im not mad my friend and im certainly not the only one here,infact someone else suggested it on this thread, and if I force the update I wont be able to join my favourite server anymore I don't think. Il just keep practising and il get there with it:thumbup:

Edited November 5, 2018 by Stealth29(U.K)

[draconus]

Il just keep practising and il get there with it:thumbup:

That's right attitude, soldier! :thumbup:

[Haukka81]

Well, I haven‘t flown a Real MiG-29, but I have seen quite a lot planes touching down and it never ever looked like they had „Flubber“ under their wheels. And I had quite a lot bouncing landings with the MiG...not only „bouncing“ but catapulting it back into air like it’s weight was more like 200kg and not some tons...

 

I agree, mig is like super ball , landings need more tuning.

 

If i slam it hard down it still likes to bounce like somekind toy with no mass :huh:

[Tobi1304]

Then don't slam down so hard. Bouncing means your sink rate is too high. Seriously there are a dozen videos here now of people landing safely without that. It requires finesse and a particular approach, and yes it really is the way YOU as a pilot are doing it, or every person would do it every time.

 

 

Okay maybe I used the wrong words.

I can land that thing absolutely fine, but when I „slam“ it down hard it bounces away like Roger Rabitt while it should destroy its gear or brake down completely.

Or haven‘t I found the secret realism switch?

[draconus]

Bouncing tendency is even mentioned in the manual.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3672033&postcount=25

 

 

If it bounces try decreasing vertical speed.

If it doesn't want to crash try increasing vertical speed.

[Tobi1304]

But bouncing still doesn‘t mean it should jump back into the sky like a little child on a trampoline.

It’s not the fact it does bounce but how...I tried such hard landings, the gear has to collapse, but it doesn’t...instead the MiG turns into a Saturn-V Rocket and goes crazy.

[draconus]

Please post the track or video as it is very subjective matter. My own little child bounces only 0,5m on a trampoline so I don't know how much it is related. I have a video though so we can compare ;)

Seriously, I can only feel something is odd when slamming front wheels but then I would like to hear SMEs opinions and/or RL videos from crashes/bad landings as it is not something you should ever try in RL, so how would you know if it is well modeled.

Edited November 5, 2018 by draconus

[Ironhand]

Bouncing tendency is even mentioned in the manual.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3672033&postcount=25

 

 

If it bounces try decreasing vertical speed.

If it doesn't want to crash try increasing vertical speed.

 

The manual refers to bouncing as a result of excessive speed. Interestingly enough, you get the most dramatic bouncing when landing at the correct speed for your weight but hitting the runway with a 5 m/s sink rate because you didn’t flare. The mains bounce and you pitch forward onto your nose gear on the way back down. It compresses fully and, then, catapults you skyward as it unloads.

 

OTOH hitting at 5m/s while above the correct landing speed tends to be much less dramatic and leaves you much more in control.

[Esac_mirmidon]

You can see here a Mig-29 bouncing some at 5:15

 

t4AQUuxFy88

[Mars Exulte]

I believe he bounced twice, the first time looked like all three wheels came off the ground, to me. Looks legit. MiGs are bouncy if you hit too hard.

[Ironhand]

I don’t think the issue is that it bounces. You can bounce any of the aircraft we have in the sim. Rather it’s the manner and severity of the bouncing that’s the concern.

[Top Jockey]

To all those who keep asking / posting doubts, that the MiG-29 Professional Flight Model might not be "very realistic" and such :

 

The MiG-29 PFM is the most realistic in the world.

It's excellent.

It's real.

It's great.

It's The real McCoy.

 

Who says ?? Me, who else ?

 

Now really, even before flight sims, this aircraft already was known to be a lethal dogfighter.

Rivaling with F-16s and F/A-18s, thanks to its above top agility and maneuverability.

(Everyone feel free to seek the data you want.)

 

Because some of you can't land it as easily as the Hornet, or the pitch is too fast, or whatever, do you really want this aircraft to keep with the previous Standard Flight Model crap ?

 

Like in LOMAC 15 years ago, where its turning rate was a joke, which looked more like an F-4 Phantom or something ?

 

This aircraft never was meant to be a slug in maneuvering.

And that's what the PFM developers featured and very well - my thanks to them.

[Snappy]

To all those who keep asking / posting doubts, that the MiG-29 Professional Flight Model might not be "very realistic" and such :

 

The MiG-29 PFM is the most realistic in the world.

It's excellent.

It's real.

It's great.

It's The real McCoy.

 

Who says ?? Me, who else ?

 

Now really, even before flight sims, this aircraft already was known to be a lethal dogfighter.

Rivaling with F-16s and F/A-18s, thanks to its above top agility and maneuverability.....

 

...Because some of you can't land it as easily as the Hornet, or the pitch is too fast, or whatever, do you really want this aircraft to keep with the previous Standard Flight Model crap ?

 

 

Calm down please.

 

 

Overblown simplicistic generalized statements like „is the most realistic in world“ are not helpful .

 

 

Of course you are entitled to your opinion,however, so are others too.

 

Regarding your statement that the real aircraft was designed with close in air combat maneuvering in mind among other things ,so were other aicraft too, like the F-15 - this does not preclude it from having balanced or precise flight controls and it s not a „slug“ either btw..

 

Contrary to what you imply I dońt think many people really want to revert back to the SFM.The PFM is a big leap forward.

 

But as you can see from the official update/bugfix list , not even the PFM of the Mig-29 is perfect from the get-go and it has been re-adjusted already.

 

People are simply discussing their observations and maybe it helps to further improve the model, without simplifying it.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Snappy

Edited November 6, 2018 by Snappy

[Ironhand]

You can see here a Mig-29 bouncing some at 5:15

 

...

Ummm...Now that I'm at home and seeing this on my monitor rather than my little iPod, I don't see any bouncing at all. The main wheels touch and stick along the uneven runway. Then the nose wheel touches and sticks as well. At no point do I see any "bouncing" on the uneven runway.

[rrohde]

Hello everyone! I believe the new Mig-29 flight model is absolutely unsuitable for the simulation. I beg the developers to review something to make the Mig-29 FM enjoyable as that of the Su-27 (which still has a perfect FM and I hope it will not be changed for the worse).

 

Calm down please.

Overblown simplicistic generalized statements like „is the most realistic in world“ are not helpful .

 

So you prefer OP's more insightful, well researched, by-the-numbers, non-generalized statement? :huh: ;)

[Snappy]

So you prefer OP's more insightful, well researched, by-the-numbers, non-generalized statement? :huh: ;)

 

Where did I say anywhere that I prefer it?

If it makes you feel better, I rephrase: overblown generalized statements are not helpful , independant of the side that makes them.

 

 

There you go.

[Haukka81]

Sometimes it feels that you cant say anything negative or crtitic here forums , soon as someone says something bad about module there is 10x fanboys to defend.

 

 

 

Well i put my rose tinted helmet on... BLIM.. wow, everything is so great, there is nothing wrong in any module.

 

God please, what i can suck to show my loyalty to this game.. oh sorry i made sin, its not game its a simulation.. god forgive me :(

[draconus]

Sometimes it feels that you cant say anything negative or crtitic here forums , soon as someone says something bad about module there is 10x fanboys to defend.

I can tell you how it usually works:

 

1. Some kid spoiled by other arcade or just bad sims without real experience whatsoever takes on DCS PFM aircraft, loads a mission and... fails miserably on landings, BVR, bomb runs or whatever he wants to achieve in just 5 minutes of training.

 

2. Without a second thought, without searching forums or even looking at the manuals the user whines on a forum using big words how much of the bad modelling DCS use and how not realistic all of this is. He provides no real data, video or track, RL manual comparisons whatsoever. Just his own opinions and feelings screamed at the devs.

 

3. Then some more experienced and knowledgable DCS players, SMEs, real pilots and technicians start to calmly explain that OP is just bollocks and that it's really not DCS fault - just the user in speak and use the kindest possible words to not hurt his feelings instead of just saying "you suck" (which would be true in most cases). They also provide hard data, manual citations, videos or tracks that prove OP wrong. Those same guys make also proper bug reports, because they know DCS is not perfect.

 

What the user is going to learn and do whith it is not our problem anymore.

 

 

And yes, sometimes they are right - very rare case. I assure you no one is going to defend DCS just because of fanboyism. [except Top Jockey ;)]

Edited November 6, 2018 by draconus

[Tobi1304]

To all those who keep asking / posting doubts, that the MiG-29 Professional Flight Model might not be "very realistic" and such :

 

The MiG-29 PFM is the most realistic in the world.

It's excellent.

It's real.

It's great.

It's The real McCoy.

 

Who says ?? Me, who else ?

 

Now really, even before flight sims, this aircraft already was known to be a lethal dogfighter.

Rivaling with F-16s and F/A-18s, thanks to its above top agility and maneuverability.

(Everyone feel free to seek the data you want.)

 

Because some of you can't land it as easily as the Hornet, or the pitch is too fast, or whatever, do you really want this aircraft to keep with the previous Standard Flight Model crap ?

 

Like in LOMAC 15 years ago, where its turning rate was a joke, which looked more like an F-4 Phantom or something ?

 

This aircraft never was meant to be a slug in maneuvering.

And that's what the PFM developers featured and very well - my thanks to them.

 

...the Problem is not that she bounces but HOW.

I‘ll try to make a video this evening, but I can tell you I,ve seen enough planes land that I can say at least the way it bounces away like a rubberball can‘t be right. I have slammed it into the ground and she went up like jumping on a trampoline. And no, I haven‘t had it on easy mode or so.

[draconus]

I can tell you I,ve seen enough planes land

Well, we all have seen them, but it's not good example (it actually is ;) ) because of good piloting. You should look for bad landings or touchdown crashes instead.