MiG-29S RADAR RANGE Bug Report

[FoxAlfa]

Generally, I don't find the MiG-29 radar range lacking, having the difference between A and C would be good but I feel some other stuff MiG-29 radar implementation is lacking.

 

First it has a lot degraded performance in MP, there is a bug that the target just blinks and disappears, I once managed to put the TDC (Strob) on it in TWS and it followed basically an invisible target on HUD.

 

Other stuff also like dropping a higher non-notching target at less then 20km for no reason, also PPS and ZPS basically not able to pick the target if it is in different aspect no matter how close it is, etc...

 

Also, I feel that radar parameters complete reset with every switch on or off or mod change is a major weakness, since it takes a few seconds for the radar to build up the picture again, in real life the switches are hard set and settings are kept.

 

So for sure, the FC3 radars could use better implementation. I feel that F-15 and Sukhoi's fix that by shear Radar power, but on the MiG such issues are much more pronounced

[Satarosa]

Generally, I don't find the MiG-29 radar range lacking, having the difference between A and C would be good but I feel some other stuff MiG-29 radar implementation is lacking.

 

First it has a lot degraded performance in MP, there is a bug that the target just blinks and disappears, I once managed to put the TDC (Strob) on it in TWS and it followed basically an invisible target on HUD.

 

Other stuff also like dropping a higher non-notching target at less then 20km for no reason, also PPS and ZPS basically not able to pick the target if it is in different aspect no matter how close it is, etc...

 

Also, I feel that radar parameters complete reset with every switch on or off or mod change is a major weakness, since it takes a few seconds for the radar to build up the picture again, in real life the switches are hard set and settings are kept.

 

So for sure, the FC3 radars could use better implementation. I feel that F-15 and Sukhoi's fix that by shear Radar power, but on the MiG such issues are much more pronounced

 

+1

[Satarosa]

M-2000C (1984)

 

RDI

~ 85km

-60°/+60° <120°

+60°/-60° <120°

 

 

MiG-29A (1983)

MiG-29G (1989)

 

N019E "Rubin"

~ 70km

-60°/+60° <120°

+56°/-36° <92°

 

 

MiG-29S (1988 )

 

N019M "Topaz"

~ 90km (ingame ~70)

-65°/+65° <130°

+60°/-38° <98°

 

 

SU-27 (1985)

 

N001 "Myech"

~ 110km

-60°/+60° <120°

-55°/+55° <110°

 

 

SU-33 (1990)

 

N001K "Myech"

~ 115km

-60°/+60° <120°

-55°/+55° <110°

 

 

F-15C (1980)

 

AN/APG-63

~ 140km (ingame ~130)

-60°/+60° <120°

-30°/+30° <60°

 

 

MiG-21bis (1972)

 

RP-22 "Sapphire"

~ 30km

-30°/+30°<60°

-2°/+17° <19°

 

 

F-5E (1972)

 

AN/APQ-159

~ 40km

-45°/+45° <90°

-40°/+45° <85°

 

 

J-11A (1998 )

 

N001VE "Panda Project"

~ 120km (ingame ~110)

-60°/+60° <120°

-55°/+55° <110°

 

 

F/A-18C (1987)

 

AN/APG-73 RADAR

~135km

-70°/+70°<140°

-60°/+60°<120°

 

 

MiG-19P (1958 )

 

RP-5 "Izumrud"

~9km

+30°/-30°<60°

+26/-16°<42°

 

 

 

 

 

soon F-14B

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope a update for more realistic for MiG-29S, F-15C and J-11A ,please !

 

I give many web sites sources, many doc and real infos from army specialist.

[FoxAlfa]

Ok, I managed to take screenshots of the radar "dumbing" issue in MP the MiG-29 which I find causing more issues that accrual range and causes people to think the radar range is wrong.

 

Blue-flag, got EWR report, two enemy targets less 35km, I turn into them.

 

The show up on the radar and as move closer suddenly both disappear from the scope at the exact same time.

 

Here is the image of both of them clearly visible and higher alt them me.

 

at this moment the Eagle is 31.1 km and Hornet 22 km

 

I give chase to the Hornet, it doesn't show up during the whole chase on the radar.

Note ABT (interleave) not being able to make him show up on the scope.

 

I switched to vertical scan mode, trying to pick him up with EO and Radar at the same time since I have visual on him... nothing. No lock. One would expect that the EO would at least be able to pick up full AB Hornet tail aspect and less then 20km.

 

In the end hornet turned, going trough all aspects at 15-13 km (so, please don't say, o but he was notching you) turned head-on with me and launched AMRAAM and got me defensive.

 

 

Even dough my vertical scan with EO and Radar on I was never able to get a lock or anything.

 

The bug always has same pattern, a target shows on the scope as a blink, and then disappear,

if you keep closing the target won't show up again. Sometimes turning off and on radar fixes the issue.

 

The BUG that the sensors just stop working appears from time to time and mainly on the MP, I can't recall that I ever got it in SP. Could be a sync issue or something, but generally it is impacting the MiG performance a lot since it gets you killed because even dough you are pointing the radar at the right direction its not picking up anything no matter how close you are.

Edited March 29, 2019 by FoxAlfa

[Satarosa]

Ok, I managed to take screenshots of the radar "dumbing" issue in MP the MiG-29 which I find causing more issues that accrual range and causes people to think the radar range is wrong.

 

Blue-flag, got EWR report, two enemy targets less 35km, I turn into them.

 

The show up on the radar and as move closer suddenly both disappear from the scope at the exact same time.

 

Here is the image of both of them clearly visible and higher alt them me.

 

at this moment the Eagle is 31.1 km and Hornet 22 km

 

I give chase to the Hornet, it doesn't show up during the whole chase on the radar.

Note ABT (interleave) not being able to make him show up on the scope.

 

I switched to ФИО mode, trying to pick him up with EO and Radar at the same time since I have visual on him... nothing. No lock. One would expect that the EO would at least be able to pick up full AB Hornet tail aspect and less then 20km.

 

In the end hornet turned, going trough all aspects at 15-13 km (so, please don't say, o but he was notching you) turned head-on with me and launched AMRAAM and got me defensive.

 

 

Even dough my ФИО with EO and Radar on I was never able to get a lock or anything.

 

The bug always has same pattern, a target shows on the scope as a blink, and then disappear,

if you keep closing the target won't show up again. Sometimes turning off and on radar fixes the issue.

 

The BUG that the sensors just stop working appears from time to time and mainly on the MP, I can't recall that I ever got it in SP. Could be a sync issue or something, but generally it is impacting the MiG performance a lot since it gets you killed because even dough you are pointing the radar at the right direction its not picking up anything no matter how close you are.

 

 

+1 I got this bug in close distance with ennemy targets. Confirm bug

[Frostie]

One thing that stands out for me here is why in the hell do you have target range set at 78.9?????

This will make any elevation in your radar very small so if a target is higher than you and you elevate the radar you're chances of getting him in the scan zone are extremely low.

Just leave it at 10 and don't play with it.

 

One thing you need to remember is that the radar runs a 4 bar scan this can take several seconds to get a picture.

 

Another thing that could be happening here is doppler effect with the cold bandit, if you're chasing a target who is matching your speed your radar will not pick this up.

 

And finally the Hornet heat signature in DCS is about as hot as a wet fart.

[FoxAlfa]

One thing that stands out for me here is why in the hell do you have target range set at 78.9?????

This will make any elevation in your radar very small so if a target is higher than you and you elevate the radar you're chances of getting him in the scan zone are extremely low.

Just leave it at 10 and don't play with it.

 

One thing you need to remember is that the radar runs a 4 bar scan this can take several seconds to get a picture.

 

Another thing that could be happening here is Doppler effect with the cold bandit, if you're chasing a target who is matching your speed your radar will not pick this up.

 

And finally the Hornet heat signature in DCS is about as hot as a wet fart.

 

Hello Frostie,

 

with all due respect, I am no 51st, but I know what to do that much.

 

Practice Tacview for references:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GqD3u5Y5PwfAYo-fnnkUOf4fbpgtr1MW

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ImRIg6j9kanqwoLck9VFPGVx_-7fnVAP

I can imagine when I do a similar thing to a player on BlueFlag he complains that his missiles are broken.

 

Now back to the bug.

 

First few times when it happen I did write it off as notch, bad radar return, my clumsiness...

 

But here is why I think it is a bug:

-When the glitch happens multiple targets drop of scope at exec same time

-You can't pick them up after regardless of their height, range and aspect

-Turning off and on the radar usually helps (the ol' IT crowd routine)

-I wasn't able to reproduce it in single player with mock AI at the same locations

 

In this particular case even when I removed all angle "unknowns" with OПТ since I had full visual on the target no luck with the pick up.

 

I don't find it to be major bug but when it happens I can imagine it catches players off guard contributing to the "unreliability" of the Fulcrum.

Next time when it happens I will try to document it more exact with replay and TacView.

Edited March 30, 2019 by FoxAlfa

[JunMcKill]

One thing that stands out for me here is why in the hell do you have target range set at 78.9?????

This will make any elevation in your radar very small so if a target is higher than you and you elevate the radar you're chances of getting him in the scan zone are extremely low.

Just leave it at 10 and don't play with it.

 

One thing you need to remember is that the radar runs a 4 bar scan this can take several seconds to get a picture.

 

Another thing that could be happening here is doppler effect with the cold bandit, if you're chasing a target who is matching your speed your radar will not pick this up.

 

 

 

Frostie AFAIK, you have a better chance to detect anything with radar ranges above 30km than using the default 10. Anyway, they were at almost the same altitude, in this case there is no problem with the radar range setup.

 

And finally the Hornet heat signature in DCS is about as hot as a wet fart.

 

I can't argue that!, I can only detect in the Russian IRST the Russian aircraft from far, and the western from very close :D

 

Regards,

 

Rush

Edited April 1, 2019 by JunMcKill

[Frostie]

Frostie AFAIK, you have a better chance to detect anything with radar ranges above 30km than using the default 10.

Just to be clear here, target range has no effect on radar range at all. The only effect is to change the angle of the elevation increments.

eg.

Target range of 80km moves the radar up 0.7 degrees for every +1 of elevation.

Target range of 10km moves the radar up over 10 degrees for every +1 of elevation.

 

The only time you'd need to put the target range at 80km is if you knew the bandit was 80km away and you also knew his altitude was for example 5000m above you, so as you could focus target range at 80km and +5 elevation for 5000m above you, then the radar would be focused on that targets angle to you.

 

While 10 is not optimal it is a good enough default for large area scanning coverage. A more optimal range set is 20 though this gives 7.5 deg per elevation so with the radars +-5 deg area you cover a large area quickly with decent overlaps to account for targets moving fast towards you.

Anyway, they were at almost the same altitude, in this case there is no problem with the radar range setup.

Granted there is no issue being caused by that here, after looking at the tacview screens it becomes clear that the MiG and bandits are all really low 100m to 500m.

 

Some things to highlight, MiG radars as are all radars, are very poor in the weeds, about 40% inferior performance than at medium altitude.

 

In Interleave you won't see a cold bandit at that altitude until 12km, Medium PRF 15+km.

Vertical scan with radar on won't lock until 10km regardless of altitude.

Vertical scan with radar on will always ignore EOS locks, even if an EOS lock is possible. You need to turn radar off to get EOS to lock in this situation.

4 bar scan is very slow to relay info.

And also like I said earlier F/A-18 is very cold signature in DCS, even prop planes give off more heat. :lol:

 

I'm not discounting a bug here I am just pointing out that there are a bus load of variables in this sim that many don't consider or believe are actually there.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Frostie