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Finding 530s to be completely useless


Idle_Wild

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Super 530s rarely find their target. Anyone else having this difficulty? At the moment I'm finding it hopeless using the Mirage because every other A2A aircraft seems to have Fox3s with a greater stand-off than the Super 530s almost 1/3rd extra distance in most cases. Even when I do get in range, they never seem to find their target, even on good aspect with the target flying a relatively straight flight path.

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Here's a topic when 530 was compared to AIM-7 and was better than Sparrow.

The most upsetting was when target was unlocked automatically after using 530.

Not sure if it was error, however missile didn't see the target in this situation.

 

And still don't understand crossed PSYNC or something like that ( IN HUD ).

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PSIC strike out warns that your radar isn't in PSIC (C continuous) mode. At larger ranges on PSID (Discontinuous) is possible but PSIC isn't and PSIC is needed to guide Matra 530.

 

The most irritating features of 530 engagement are all about the radar. It loses lock reliably especially at large antenna angles. The fact that the radar resets elevation on lost lock, doesn't coast track, and don't auto change range makes it a complete pain to work with.

 

The missile itself is alright I guess. Range improves hugely with high altitude which is hard to actually find though. And the habit of AIM-120 opponents is not fun times. You can win with teamwork or superior disposition but again hard to actually be granted.

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Super 530s rarely find their target. Anyone else having this difficulty? At the moment I'm finding it hopeless using the Mirage because every other A2A aircraft seems to have Fox3s with a greater stand-off than the Super 530s almost 1/3rd extra distance in most cases. Even when I do get in range, they never seem to find their target, even on good aspect with the target flying a relatively straight flight path.

 

It looks like you wouldn’t perform much better with another Fox 1 shooter either.

 

You need to do some research radar performances in look up or look down, on Doppler effect, on beam/ notch maneuver which are using Doppler effect limitations to break radar lock and try to imagine some plan to deny beam maneuver effectiveness.

 

There are some discussion here about BVR with the Mirage, there are tutorials about BVR combat with Fox 1 on YouTube...

 

But overall yes, Fox 1 are at disadvantage versus Fox 3.

But Fox 1 missiles were not designed to compete with Fox 3 shooters. Fox 3 came later and are more modern missiles.

 

Spoiler: Mirage 2000C RDI and Super 530D were not designed to take down Fox 3 shooters.

The only Fox 3 of that time was the 1000lbs AIM-54 Phoenix...

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Crank to gimbals and the radar will lose lock every time. For some reason 50 degrees antenna angle the radar performs very poorly. And worse there is no track memory illuminating the space where target should be even if lock is temporarily lost. The whole engagement is very fragile related to the radar.

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Crank to gimbals and the radar will lose lock every time. For some reason 50 degrees antenna angle the radar performs very poorly. And worse there is no track memory illuminating the space where target should be even if lock is temporarily lost. The whole engagement is very fragile related to the radar.

 

True, in DCS there is no memory (I don't know IRL), when lock breaking conditions are met you loose lock instantly.

But there is no issue at 50°. The lock line start to flash at 55° to warn you're near gimbal limit.

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Someone back check me for accuracy, but I think the 530 was designed to shoot down heavy bombers, not so much fighter sized targets. But again, I'm pulling this off the top of my head so I'm happy to be corrected.

 

Personally I find Fox-1/Fox-2 engagements to be much more interesting than just loft a bunch of missiles and let them do all the work. I wish there were more multiplayer servers that prohibited the use of Fox-3.

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Someone back check me for accuracy, but I think the 530 was designed to shoot down heavy bombers, not so much fighter sized targets. But again, I'm pulling this off the top of my head so I'm happy to be corrected.

 

No, it's designed to have good snap up/ down capacity, and to be able to pull high G even in high altitude (look at the wing surface)

 

In advertising material of that time, the Mirage 2000C profile mission was to take off on QRA, climb hard and perform supersonic acceleration around FL360.

The Super 530D is advertised to be able to climb +10 000m (33 000ft) from launch altitude.

Since it can easily climb to FL400 with full AA load, you can engage target up to FL700.

 

It's a development from Super 530F, Super 530D brings longer range and shoot down capacity.

 

The main drawback is the missile diameter (drag).

The engineers wanted to reduce the body diameter for Super 530F (Mirage F1), but FAF ordered to keep R530 (Mirage III & Mirage F1) diameter (263mm) as risk reduction measure. (AIM-7 is 200mm).

 

So the missile is advertised as one of the fastest of its time (behind Phoenix), when you look at it, everything screams "speed".

It is rated at 30G, so fighters are well within its capacity.

 

Range isn't that great compared to AIM-120, but it was nothing to joke about in the 80'-90'.

 

In DCS some of the drawbacks are inherent to Fox 1 system (loose lock on beaming), sometimes it's amplified by some of the module limitations.

 

Yes when you come from F-15C + AIM-120C (Fox 3) you jump back in time.

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Fox-1 are limited , you have to shoot close to target or shoot early to make them defensive.

Once in range for MAGICs M2000c is very dangerous for every Fox-3 capable aircraft.

 

A "Fox 1 close" in look up is extremely deadly.

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It is rated at 30G, so fighters are well within its capacity.

 

.

Indeed. I have talked with a real pilot about 530D performance against maneuverable fighters.

To my question if the missile '' has realistic chances to down a modern fighter ''', since it's designed primarly as a missiles against fast flying bombers, he said ''absolutely yes, it has ''. Vague question, sure, but more specific infos about real misisles performances we can't get

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I never read anywhere it was designed specifically to down bombers.France couldn't afford to have a missile dedicated to bombers and another one to fighters.

 

Super 530D is in the same category as AIM-7F/M or R-27R.

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The 530 is the fastest fox1 (probably even vs fox3) missile in the game.

 

 

Nope, R-27ER is the fastest missile in game.

 

 

R-27ER speed at 13000 meters and launch platform at Mach 1.5 ~ 5200 km/hr

Super530D speed at 13000 meters and launch platform at Mach 1.5 ~ 4230 km/h

 

 

Test was done in a standard DCS day at 12 noon.

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Yes, the speeds attained above was till motor burn out. From my experience, R-27ER burn time is around 10 secs. 530D I'm not sure.

 

 

 

I think most people compare the 530D to the R-27R, which is fine as they are the same period missiles.


Edited by Kunz
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As it stands, the 530D is a terrible missile against anything capable of defensive maneuvers and releasing chaff. Combined with how easy the Mirage loses radar lock in BVR, getting a kill with it is very rare. It doesn't matter how you use it, fire at max range, fire at TIR, fire at 6NM . . . there's no reliable way of making it work. Either the radar or the missile will let you down.

 

This is especially true when playing online. I'd say my PK with the 530D is about 10-20%. I get most of my kills with the Magics or guns. 530D are just for forcing bandits to go defensive.

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As it stands, the 530D is a terrible missile against anything capable of defensive maneuvers and releasing chaff. Combined with how easy the Mirage loses radar lock in BVR, getting a kill with it is very rare. It doesn't matter how you use it, fire at max range, fire at TIR, fire at 6NM . . . there's no reliable way of making it work. Either the radar or the missile will let you down.

 

This is especially true when playing online. I'd say my PK with the 530D is about 10-20%. I get most of my kills with the Magics or guns. 530D are just for forcing bandits to go defensive.

 

Try AIM-7M or R-27R and tell us about your PK.

 

At max range ant missile would miss against maneuvering target.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

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  • 2 weeks later...

my PK is prob around 70%-80% playing online, the only time It misses is when the target gets behind terrain or put me in a really good notch and chaffs it away. As far as the fox 1 fight, excluding ERs I the 530 is my favorite missile. Just wish the Mirage could carry more of them.

 

I also don't fire until we're close, really close, usually 8-6nm or more depending on altitude, but most low level engagements around 8-6nm closer to 6nm.

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Considering that the mirage was built as an interceptor first, and how its weapon systems are catered to that role, I’m not at all surprised if the 530 performed as poorly as most people say.

 

Though from my experience getting killed by it, it all comes down to the user’s ability to maximize the missile’s performance (go fast, launch from up high) and the defender’s ability to detect the missile and react accordingly.

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530D is a deadly missile and rarely miss its target when certain conditions were met (launching it high and fast). Even some good Flanker pilots questioning its realism. (go search it on the forum)

I wont explaining further how good it is, just search on youtube M2K in action by Microvax or Taw Savior few of the outstanding DCS M2K pilots.


Edited by Oceandar

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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Considering that the mirage was built as an interceptor first, and how its weapon systems are catered to that role, I’m not at all surprised if the 530 performed as poorly as most people say.

 

Though from my experience getting killed by it, it all comes down to the user’s ability to maximize the missile’s performance (go fast, launch from up high) and the defender’s ability to detect the missile and react accordingly.

 

It isn't worse than any other Fox 1 missile in game.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

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