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Mig-19 Ground radar return test

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Zeus67

Zeus67

Posted
Posted
Can we conclude from this that ED has a working ground mapping radar implementation, or did RAZBAM make an implementation themselves?

 

 

It is just our implementation of ground clutter. DCS still does not have a ground mapping radar.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

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Alpenwolf

Alpenwolf

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Well, to be honest is not a radar mode, more like how ground clutter/noise appears on the screen when the aircraft is flying low.

 

 

 

Also, this is our own implementation and we are tweaking it continually so it looks realistic.

I thought so eventually. The title was a bit misleading :smilewink:

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Auditor

Auditor

Posted
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So there was an interesting post recently that I thought I should share here and get some thoughts on. It's in regards to the RP-5 simulated in the Mig-19P.

 

 

 

Basically, it appears that the ground clutter is just a single image of ground terrain that is faded as the aircraft climbs and descends. It doesn't appear to even rotate as the plane banks.

 

 

 

I understand this is WIP, but will this part be changed for more accurately modeled ground clutter in the future?

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Кош

Кош

Posted
Posted (edited)

Guys, its a placeholder, sorry. Please, it must be drawn with the scan. And air contacts too, not constantly taken from the game logic. It should be scan pass oscilloscope. You cant pass to MiG-23 with that crapload of modes and switchology if you wont make this elder thing right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av8AkR4AFNU

Similar era and tech, maybe its even more advanced than our case. Couldn't find RP-5, but this one gives the idea of how that tech looks.


Edited by Кош

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Pikey

Pikey

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Not falling for the "this is WIP" song. We all know how much of that code will be changed prior to imminent release, seen it before with mig21, F-5. Radar scopes get very poorly simulated in DCS baring what one quite different 3rd party does.

 

 

Luckily the Mig-23 doesn't require any talent in the radar department, it's already filtered direct to HUD.

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Кош

Кош

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Luckily the Mig-23 doesn't require any talent in the radar department

 

 

Completely otherwise. It has 4 modes only based on target and self elevation, and many more based on other parameters. Bearing in mind it is the first redfor lookdown shootdown it may be harder to simulate than say F-18C.

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Quaggles

Quaggles

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Posted (edited)
And you wonder why they are reluctant to release WIP videos...

 

I do agree that a video posted 2 months ago is likely not a fair representation of the state the aircraft will release in. However ED have said that the MiG-19 is releasing this month which means if the patches follow the usual schedule it will be coming out next Wednesday.

 

In all 3 of the recent MiG-19 videos featuring the radar (Some released as recently as yesterday) so far have all used the exact same mountain texture, some of those videos were even on entirely different maps.

 

When a fundamental and complex system such as the radar is shown by YouTuber's in this state a mere 7 days before a full release (Not even launching in early access) it does raise questions.

 

Edit: 3 different videos, 2 different maps, 1 radar texture: https://imgur.com/a/GcGJoY1


Edited by Quaggles
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MrDieing

MrDieing

Posted
Posted

I must admit I am a little dissapppointed in the radar too if this is the final state. Will still buy it probably, but I hope they will improve it.

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fl0w

fl0w

Posted
Posted (edited)

Image for reference:

 

unknown.png

 

the 1st picture (on left) shows to give a reason for it working but the 2nd one still baffles me. Even at that angle of the aircraft I confidently doubt the radar's ability to scan and return radar beams showing that same like pattern of the 1st.

 

If you watch RAZBAM's video showing the ground cluttering on the radar, it doesn't even appear to have a single change at all.


Edited by Sirius
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Volator

Volator

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Posted
However ED have said that the MiG-19 is releasing this month which means if the patches follow the usual schedule it will be coming out next Wednesday.

 

a mere 7 days before a full release

 

Everything is subject to change. Never would I seriously expect that the mentioned release date would be met by all means.

 

I see that the MiG-19 is coming along nicely, and I want to have an almost feature-complete add-on with as little bugs as possible, so who cares if it is released two or four weeks later when you get a rather mature plane for DCS for that...

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MrDieing

MrDieing

Posted
Posted
Everything is subject to change. Never would I seriously expect that the mentioned release date would be met by all means.

 

I see that the MiG-19 is coming along nicely, and I want to have an almost feature-complete add-on with as little bugs as possible, so who cares if it is released two or four weeks later when you get a rather mature plane for DCS for that...

 

That is not the point he was trying to make. What he was saying is that the current representation is mediocre at best and with the projected release of this month there is little chance anything will change on the radar

''Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction.''

Erich Fromm

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Volator

Volator

Posted
Posted (edited)
That is not the point he was trying to make. What he was saying is that the current representation is mediocre at best and with the projected release of this month there is little chance anything will change on the radar

 

I get that, but it is not beyond impossible that the release will be delayed and there will be more remodeling of radar ground returns. I hope they'll do it right too. What he and I are basically saying is ''Don' t release it like that.''


Edited by Pilot Ike
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Zeus67

Zeus67

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Posted

It won't be released with that ground clutter rendition. I have checked the other two DCS aircraft that suffer from ground clutter: MiG-21Bis and F-5E.

 

Unfortunately their rendition does not conform to how the RP-5 radar behaves: The clutter appears above, because the radar beam cone gets the ground return. This return slowly creeps down, as the altitude above the ground is lower until the entire screen is filled.

 

Sidelobes do appear below the screen, but the main clutter is on top coming down.

 

The RP-5 radar can be used from 3600 meters above ground level. It becomes unusable at 2000 meters AGL.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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Koty

Koty

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Posted

I'll drop my 5 cents.

 

1) How air target return looks:

 

It looks exactly the same as RP-21 return, except it's scanned from one side only (the scan radar does not oscilate, it rotates). Not only that, but it technically consists of two radars, one for upper hemisphere, one for lower (so in practice, MiG-19 has 3 radars, one for tracking and two for scanning).

 

You have 3 types of returns, above, below and centre. As the radar duo rotates (let's have one rotation = one period), in first semi-period it shows targets above, in second semi-period it shows targets below. Centre-target is a target that can be viewed by both radar scanners (it is where the FOV's of the two dishes overlap) and will be per one period shown twice.

 

Similar principle is used in RP-21, except here you have one dish doing both sweeps. Do also note that a single target gives multiple returns dependent on its size.

 

Go to 2:10 to see the RP-21 iconography visualized:

UbqHsXLqwJY

 

 

2) Ground return:

RP-1/2/5 is not stabilized and the scanning plane is perpendicular to plane's vertical axis at all times. Therfore, in a perfect 90° bank, only one half of the screen will be cluttered.

 

And while the radar cannot be used below 3600 meters of altitude, pilots were trained to perform intercepts of targets flying as low as 500 m, while themselves being at 100 m of altitude above ground. What was their trick? Simply blinding the dish for scanning below. This method is described in a book I've read recently, ISBN:978-80-7573-012-1

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