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Radar Discussion


Divutski

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Hi i created this thread in order to gain a littlebit attention. I might be wrong on certain practical theories, but then i need an explanation.

 

 

i know how the doppler effect works, but then again, it depends how the Game, mathematically calculates radar detection

 

 

 

when ever you get beamed by someone, how is it possible for an enemy aircraft to use active radar missile, when the other aircraft lets say SU25T is not having a radar at all. you are not emitting any signal what so ever, and the pasive rwr is only receiving. countless times i have been shot by an aim120 not emitting anything. shouldn´t the aim120 lose track or is there something i am missing here.

 

 

 

Ive tried terrain masking, hell even flying low either at a 3 o´9 line, but getting found getting shot, i have to admit, i give up those attack aircrafts. You know some players online go that extra mile just to kill you

 

 

 

Also AWACS usually have a certain range, but it can spot anything at any given range for some odd game mechanic reason

 

 

 

For me i feel like the Radar system is a Cancerous Flaw in DCS. and its an issue i feel needs to be adressed

 

 

 

Feel free to add any opinion, hopefully im am not alone :)

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I saw a diagram once that is a good visual aide, but cannot find again now @@ Anyway, ONE way in which you can get killed by an ARH missile and NOT detect is based on angles. The issue you're running into is less about the simplicity of radar as it is the complexity of the RWR system wink.gif For example, using the Su-25T, it is not full 360 coverage. There are multiple blindspots, particularly above and below the aircraft. I don't remember the specific angles, but I think it's something like 30 degress above or below the horizon. In other words, things very much above or below you will NOT trigger the RWR, even if you're being locked and launched on. Another thing that can result, somebody is off to one side, they lock and launch you roll to evade... and it stops beeping. That does not mean the missile magically disappeared or that you are no longer being illuminated, it means ONLY that you have rolled enough to put the energy source in your blindspot. The missile and aircraft is very much still tracking you.

 

-edit

 

Another possible source is that the radar launch warning in the 25T is triggered by someone using SST mode, afaik. Some aircraft use TWS (track while scan) and since it is a less concentrated source, it does NOT trigger the launch warning, even though a missile may be enroute and homing, you do not receive that alert until the missile goes pitbull (if then?)

 

Also, radar is not dependent on YOU having a radar. Though some missiles have the capability to home on an energy source (Anti-radiation Missiles they are called) it is not an element of radar usage. Imagine a pitch black night, and you shining a spotlight around a field looking for deer to shoot at. That is radar. It is illuminating targets and then tracking them once illuminated. It is not necessary that the deer also have a spotlight. It sounds like that basic misconception may be part of your problem, from how you described it.

 

"For me i feel like the Radar system is a Cancerous Flaw in DCS. and its an issue i feel needs to be adressed"

Radar is being overhauled to receive a more complex and accurate simulation, but "I feel like this or that" is frequently an indication of lack of knowledge of the one doing the feeling wink.gif Research FIRST, THEN decide whether something is "cancerous" wink.gif

 

"Ive tried terrain masking, hell even flying low either at a 3 o´9 line, but getting found getting shot, i have to admit, i give up those attack aircrafts. You know some players online go that extra mile just to kill you"

Terrain masking is good, but it only works if the terrain is physically between you and the energy source. Modern radar has little issue picking aircraft out of ground clutter. Beaming helps, but it's not a guarantee, especially if you aren't consistently holding the angle, which is hard to do, when you can't actually SEE the other aircraft.

 

"Also AWACS usually have a certain range, but it can spot anything at any given range for some odd game mechanic reason"

Awacs do indeed have a certain range... A very, very long range. Also, detection range is determined by the size of the object being detected. A 747 is seen before a F-14 before an F-5 before a RC drone. Add in radar reduction measures (for example an F-18C is seen before an F-18E) and you get more fun math stuff. You also may have fog of war turned off in the options.

 

 

-edit again

 

 

Also, some missiles have their own onboard radar, making them autonomous from the launching aircraft. Here are the basic types of air-to-air missile :

 

 

#1 - IR/Infrared, aka "heat seeking". This missile has a seeker head that can detect infrared radiation, typically generated from engines, exhaust, etc. The seeker is often cooled with argon or such while on the launch rack to increase its sensitivity, these cooled seeker missiles are what are known as "all aspect" meaning they can track from more angles than simply a narrow cone directly behind the target. The newest gen missiles are not simply IR detectors, but actually high resolution IR CAMERAS. This means they do not merely see a "glowy thing", they see the actual AIRCRAFT, and can even target specific parts of it, irrespective of it being a heat producing engine part or not.

 

 

#2- SARH/Semi-active radar. These missiles are entirely reliant on the launching aircraft's radar for guidance. They do not have any kind of energy emitting system of their own. The launching aircraft illuminates the target, and the missile receives guidance commands from it.

 

 

#3- ARH/Active-radar missiles. These missiles have their OWN onboard radar that kicks on at a pre-determined range to target (being small, the radar is not as powerful as that on the launching aircraft). Initially launch and long range guidance is handled by the launching aircraft, meaning it has to maintain a lock until the missile's onboard radar comes online, at which point the launching aircraft may turn away or do whatever. This crossing point, where the missiles becomes self guiding is called "pitbull".

 

 

#4 - ARM/Anti-radiation missile. This missile basically is using a glorified RWR system to detect and follow an energy beam back to its source. HOJ (Home On Jamming) is a variation of this system, where it detects there is a powerful source "somewhere this direction" and simply follows it until it either hits it or runs out of steam and falls from the sky. This type of missile is typically associated with attacking radar stations or SAM sites, though.

 

 

 

 

Common air to ground missiles are :

 

 

#5 - TV guided. Literally a high resolution TV camera, it locks onto a designated object and follows it.

 

 

#6 - Laser guided. I believe there are several kinds, but the most basic ones are "beam riders", you illuminate the target with an IR laser beam and the missile has an "eye" and it "chases" the beam until it collides.

 

 

There are also IR and radar guided variants of many air-to-ground missiles, which function in the same way as the air-to-air missiles.


Edited by zhukov032186

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