Looking for advice on new build

[Pricer27421]

Hey pilots,

 

I am new to the community and looking to build my first pc for DCS any advice is much appreciated. My question is will this setup (listed below) be good enough to run dcs at a good frame rate on a 3440x1440 Ultrawide monitor at high settings.

 

Motherboard : Asus Z390 gaming e

CPU : i7 9700k

Gpu : Rtx 2080 (not ti)

Ram : Corsair vengeance lpx 32GB 3200mhz

Storage : 1TB 970 evo m.2 NVME

Cooler : Hyper 212 evo

Psu : 850 EVGA gold

[Aluminum Donkey]

Hey pilots,

 

I am new to the community and looking to build my first pc for DCS any advice is much appreciated. My question is will this setup (listed below) be good enough to run dcs at a good frame rate on a 3440x1440 Ultrawide monitor at high settings.

 

Motherboard : Asus Z390 gaming e

CPU : i7 9700k

Gpu : Rtx 2080 (not ti)

Ram : Corsair vengeance lpx 32GB 3200mhz

Storage : 1TB 970 evo m.2 NVME

Cooler : Hyper 212 evo

Psu : 850 EVGA gold

 

Looks like a *very* expensive build. You can get better performance without spending more by:

 

-Getting a cheaper CPU. Anything that's 4.0 GHz or faster on all cores is fine. The 9700K is pricy and most of its threads won't do much. i3-8350K is excellent, so is i5-8600k (6 cores, a little overkill). It's not that that the 9700K isn't any good-it certainly is, but it's very costly and DCS can't do anything with most of it. Hyperthreading doesn't do much of anything in gaming, but costs tons of extra bread.

 

-Get a different video card. The 2080 non-Ti is pricy, and it's good, but DCS doesn't use its real-time raytracing and probably never will. You're better off with a 1080 Ti (faster/better, more VRAM), or a 2080 Ti ($$$!!!). Both have 11GB of video RAM, which is great, and the 1080 Ti is much cheaper than the 2080 Ti (also 11GB) but it's still really fast and will probably out-perform the 2080.

The regular 2080 is expensive, has features that DCS can't use, and 'only' has 8GB of VRAM (still very good, but DCS can always benefit from more). In other words, you pay too much for a regular 2080, and DCS can't use all that expensive, proprietary Nvidia goodness. 1080 Ti is probably better and cheaper.

 

32GB of RAM is great, not absolutely necessary. You'll probably still need a pagefile on an SSD, or DCS will crash to desktop. It's just how DCS works. I wouldn't put the pagefile on an expensive M.2 NVMe drive! Just use a regular SATA SSD for that. It should last quite a long time. Pagefile can be huge during longer, more complex missions, 20+ GB.

 

Hyper 212 EVO is a great cooler, I use one myself. Reasonably cheap and very effective.

 

PSU probably doesn't have to be 850W, but that's fine.

 

All in all, get the fastest video card you can find, but stick with 1080 Ti or 2080 Ti. You're spending **lots** of bread--don't half-arse it with a regular 2080 and don't go faaar overboard with an uber-expensive CPU, because DCS can't do too much with one. It just has to be fast, 4.0+ GHz and 4 cores is great, don't bother with anything hyperthreaded :)

 

A little "choosiness" will give you better performance for less dough.

 

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[Headwarp]

Hyperthreading doesn't do much of anything in gaming, but costs tons of extra bread.

 

 

The i7 9700k does not feature hyperthreading. It's 8 physical cores. I think you have the cpu confused with the i9 9900K. There's maybe bout $40 differenc between 8700k and 9700k in the US. Right now an i5 or i3 would fine but there's no telling when we'll see vulkan implementation and more cores, even logical ones should amount to more performance in vulkan and dx12 titles. I could be wrong, but my reading says that 8 physical cores (9700k) could still be faster than 6 physical cores + 6 logical cores (8700K). If I were shopping for a CPU right now I'd double check that one particular fact.

 

8th gen i7's are the last gen featuring hyperthreading currently. 2080 should be quite decent for 3440x1440 if you can't find a decently priced 1080Ti and aren't willing to shell out for a 2080Ti.. my 3440x1440 monitor does see 100% usage in quite a few modern titles though with my 2080ti.

 

Only way you're saving money on a 1080Ti right now is if you buy used or the few reasonably priced listed "New" on ebay..but whether or not you get a warranty with that is up in the air depending on brand and original purchase date. Otherwise.. expect to pay around what you can get a 2080Ti for in that regard.

 

 

Personally when I buy hardare I go big.. 8700k was the fastest cpu out when I bought it.. 980Ti when I bought it years ago and my 2080Ti now.. this rig will suit me for at LEAST 5-6 years without further need for upgrades, and get impressive performance increases as more titles adopt dx12 and vulkan... which DCS is slated for vulkan... but whether it's next year or 5 years from now that we'll see it nobody knows atm.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Headwarp

[Pricer27421]

Thank you for the replies I will take all of that into consideration. I am not firmiliar with a “page file” I was planning on just running the single 1TB m.2 ssd and that’s it. Could you please explain what a page file is? Is it something I need to download?

 

Many thanks,

Price

Edited November 25, 2018 by Pricer27421

[BitMaster]

PageFile is a File that resides on your disk(s) and expands RAM onto drives, like 100000 times slower than any RAM.

 

It helps the system to manage RAM usage and grants a place to offload stuff that is not needed now but maybe reused later. Really difficult to explain in depth.

 

 

Basically, you need 32GB space on your Disk to define that file ( in OS system settings.. ).

 

With a NVMe it wont matter much or not at all that ALL is on 1 disk: OS + DCS + Pagefile.

 

 

Maybe , in a month or two, get a 2nd drive, NVMe or Sata, and put DCS on that one and leave OS and PF on the 1st NVMe. But it may not matter at all.

[Demon_]

I think that he means that 8 cores and HT is overkill for DCS now. Speed is still the winner. DCS will not necessarily need more cores, but the works will be spread on more available cores.

Maybe a 9600K?

 

Vulcan is coming

Edited November 25, 2018 by Demon_

[boscoh]

Good build.

 

 

The 9700K and 2080 are a good pair at 1440p. You would probably hit the CPU bottleneck at 1440p in most scenarios with a 2080Ti.

 

2080 will get you around the same level of performance or slightly more than a 1080Ti with marginal increase in cost. You're basically buying into the future of ray tracing, and that your card will support it in titles that use it. It would be worth the investment to me, but that's my opinion.

 

NVME will help you in workloads other than DCS. I noticed a very slight improvement in load times going from a SATA SSD to an NVME SSD, and not much else where DCS is concerned. If you do photo or video editing, you will notice a massive increase in performance where that stuff is concerned.

 

PSU - if you are going to stay with the 2080 you are fine. If you are considering upgrading to the 2080Ti or adding anything extra (liquid cooling, etc), I would bump it up to the EVGA G+ 1000W. This part is $99 at Best Buy right now. For what it's worth, I run a 2080Ti FE on this same power supply - I had to upgrade from a several years old 850W Corsair Gold power supply due to stability issues once the GPU went under load.

[Demon_]

Maybe the Asus Prime Z390-A, Gigabytes Z390 AORUS PRO or Z390 AORUS Elite.

 

 

A Tier 1, 2 or 2b 750w is more than enough for a single video card system.

https://www.thetechgame.com/Archives/t=5613293/power-supply-guide-the-good-and-the-bad.html

[BitMaster]

With a 2080ti, for what I have read and think "understood" is that the 2080ti will bottleneck your CPU in most games at 1440p

 

For such a combo, make it 4k or you leave some goodies on the table that you cannot use/enjoy

 

even at 5G. You really need to push the system to 5.2 or 5.3G which is very very rare to be stable and healthy.

 

 

A 2080ti needs Vulkan for DCS or you end up witgh a jaw drop, a bad one

[Headwarp]

With a 2080ti, for what I have read and think "understood" is that the 2080ti will bottleneck your CPU in most games at 1440p

 

For such a combo, make it 4k or you leave some goodies on the table that you cannot use/enjoy

 

even at 5G. You really need to push the system to 5.2 or 5.3G which is very very rare to be stable and healthy.

 

 

A 2080ti needs Vulkan for DCS or you end up witgh a jaw drop, a bad one

 

3440x1440 actually makes good use of the 2080Ti in my experience in newer titles. Though I haven't tested my monitor in DCS because I'm now a VR sim junky. 2560x1440 on the other hand would run into cpu limitations in dx11 titles. It is one hefty pricetag though.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Headwarp

[Pricer27421]

PageFile is a File that resides on your disk(s) and expands RAM onto drives, like 100000 times slower than any RAM.

 

It helps the system to manage RAM usage and grants a place to offload stuff that is not needed now but maybe reused later. Really difficult to explain in depth.

 

 

Basically, you need 32GB space on your Disk to define that file ( in OS system settings.. ).

 

With a NVMe it wont matter much or not at all that ALL is on 1 disk: OS + DCS + Pagefile.

 

 

Maybe , in a month or two, get a 2nd drive, NVMe or Sata, and put DCS on that one and leave OS and PF on the 1st NVMe. But it may not matter at all.

 

Just so I understand what to do to get the highest performance out of the PC...

-Leave my Operating system and Keep Pagefile enabled on my boot drive SSD.

-On a seperate SSD have DCS with pagefile disabled to get the maximum speed out of my RAM?

 

My apologies just trying to understand.

 

Could anyone predict what type of frame rates this build would get on the 3440x1440p ultrawide monitor at high settings? I dont want to waste money on crappy parts to not have a enjoyable experience.

[Headwarp]

I can give you an idea of 2080Ti performance but we'd have to guesstimate that in relation to 2080 performance.. give me a few I'll disable VR and give you some numbers. I'll leave the pagefile talk to BitMaster :)

 

 

*edit* I honestly feel like a 2080 or 1080Ti would perform well @3440x1440. Took two flights, one in the SU-25T Georgian Oil War campaign as it tends to be loaded with ground units, and I was maintaining about 120 FPS, mind you this was along the coast.

 

 

I also used the Hornet Instant action ACM 8v8 over caucasus and got no lower than 80fps as I flew close to the ground.

 

My monitor has a 100hz refresh rate so the 2080Ti is ALMOST overkill for DCS until you jump into the hornet or PG map.

 

One of the newer 3440x1440 120hz refresh rate monitors would be almost right on the sweet spot.

 

2080 might see fps down into the 60's with full shadows and extreme vis and high texture/water settings and msaa 2x is my guess. Which, looks pretty stunning on a 3440x1440 monitor. Forgot I gave my dad my trackIR unit so I was pretty much looking forward the entire time.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Headwarp

[BitMaster]

Just so I understand what to do to get the highest performance out of the PC...

-Leave my Operating system and Keep Pagefile enabled on my boot drive SSD.

-On a seperate SSD have DCS with pagefile disabled to get the maximum speed out of my RAM?

 

My apologies just trying to understand.

 

Could anyone predict what type of frame rates this build would get on the 3440x1440p ultrawide monitor at high settings? I dont want to waste money on crappy parts to not have a enjoyable experience.

 

Yes, that will work.

 

You can define a PF on any drive and the OS will pick the best drive "at that moment for that task".

 

I would put the PF on your NVMe OS ( very speedy ) and keep DCS on a separate drive, Sata or NVMe doesnt really matter.

 

It's all to minimize the risc of stutter, distribute load a smuch as you can as your own sys-admin

[Pricer27421]

Ok great thank for the replies again fellas,

 

So you guys think the 2080 will do well then? I mean if not I will purchase a 2080TI but it will be hard on the wallet and I do think it is a bit overpriced. Just dont want to regret it to save a couple hundred $.

[BitMaster]

If your CPU will allow 5G, you also think VR might be yours too and 1440p is the bare minimum you desire as resolution, then yes, a ti would make sense. Just do not bring yourself in trouble :)

 

Once Vulkan arrives, we "ASSUME" that the CPU will be freed from various tasks and can deliver more raw frames, that then may ask for more power than a 1080ti/2080 can deliver....again, we assume !

[Headwarp]

Ok great thank for the replies again fellas,

 

So you guys think the 2080 will do well then? I mean if not I will purchase a 2080TI but it will be hard on the wallet and I do think it is a bit overpriced. Just dont want to regret it to save a couple hundred $.

 

The only real advice I can give here myself is my reasoning for buying a 2080Ti outside of VR, which is the same reasoning I have any time I buy a gpu. It will last me longer than any option out there currently.

 

I would still be happily using my 980Ti if I hadn't opted for a 3440x1440 monitor and a VR headset. And I might have even forgone upgrading from my GTX 680 4gb to the 980Ti if I wasn't looking for high resolution performance when i went form 1080p to 3440x1440 because I wanted more FOV for this money sink of a hobby. I think I've finally boiled it down to future software purchases for at least half a decade.

 

If my monitor purchase had been after the release of the 1080Ti, I'd be using that, and wouldn't have considered a 2080Ti, likely true even with my odyssey.

 

I just have this general philosophy when it comes to GPU or CPU purchases, that the more you cut on these two components, the sooner you'll be asking yourself whether "it's worth it" to upgrade in the future. That being said, the top tier of either for this scenario, 9900k or 2080Ti are some of the most outrageously priced "mainstream" items I've seen to date. 9600k + 2080 or used 1080Ti for 3440x1440 is a lot less expensive and I'd imagine a capable gamer for several years to come. Z370 boards with a bios flash are also a money saving option as their prices have dropped significantly since the release of 8th gen cpus and you will want to check their support pages, but I'd imagine most are fully capable of supporting a 9th gen cpu with a bios update. Z390 boards may have additonal features like more m2 slots or different usb configurations, but are newer, and therefore will be receiving driver and bios updates further into the future.

 

The 20 series launch so far leaves A LOT to be desired that I won't go into. But aside from buying a used 1080Ti, options for equal or better performance are soon going to be a 2080 or 2080Ti. What it boils down to is whether or not 20-30 extra frames per second is worth the difference in price to you. Me? I'm not a family man, which kind of allows for the investment even on a meager budget and my current build was purchased over the course of a year. All said and done - I personally am happy with my choice.. And I think in the long run you'll be happy with whichever you make for however long it lasts you. You can always reduce settings for higher FPS and in a lot of cases you'll hardly notice the difference.

 

Don't overthink it and don't cause yourself any kind of financial disaster. If you got the dough, you can rule out any doubt by throwing more money at it. If you don't, the next best thing could save you $700-$1000 if in the US.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Headwarp

[Django]

i3-8350K is excellent, so is i5-8600k (6 cores, a little overkill).

But how far can you OC the i3-8350?

 

Maybe the Asus Prime Z390-A, Gigabytes Z390 AORUS PRO or Z390 AORUS Elite.

 

The Aorus boards have much better VRMs than that Asus. Right now I'm torn between the Aorus Pro or Aorus Ultra for my build.

 

750w is more than enough for a single video card system.

+1.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Django

[Aluminum Donkey]

Ok great thank for the replies again fellas,

 

So you guys think the 2080 will do well then? I mean if not I will purchase a 2080TI but it will be hard on the wallet and I do think it is a bit overpriced. Just dont want to regret it to save a couple hundred $.

 

Seriously, if you're going to blow that kind of money, DEFINITELY get the 2080 Ti. I wouldn't even bother with the regular 2080. If you're gonna settle for the 2080, get the 1080 TI instead.

 

If you're gonna go second-best one something, make it the CPU. i5-9600K has 6 cores/threads--much more than you need, but about half the cost of the very expensive i7-9700K, which has 2 more cores you dont need at twice the price! See what I'm getting at?

Even the "crappy, low-end" i3-8350K has 4C/4T and is plenty--and pretty cheap.

 

All of these CPUs should quite easily reach 5.0 GHz--and DCS will *still* bottneck on the graphics card!!

 

Honestly man, for forging the mightiest of gaming rigs, go as overkill as you can on the graphics card, and get a fast CPU (4.0+ GHz default single-threaded) and set the CPU in BIOS/UEFI to Sync All Cores, so they all run at the highest speed under load, and overclock to taste (not really needed).

 

You'll get a much better performing rig than you will lumping everything onto the CPU and getting a lesser graphics card.

 

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[Pricer27421]

Understood guys once again thank you for the replies. I was thinking I could get away with the regular 2080 because it is comparable to the 1080TI in most reports ive looked at. I cannot find a good deal on a 1080TI as of right now. Anyways I will have to make a decision soon.

 

1 more question: When the time comes to buy a joystick I dont know if I am willing to spend that much on a warthog hotas. Would the Logitech X56 Rhino do the job? Does anyone use this stick or recommend me an alternative option. I have heard quality control is an issue with the x56.

 

Best Regards,

Price

[boscoh]

1 more question: When the time comes to buy a joystick I dont know if I am willing to spend that much on a warthog hotas. Would the Logitech X56 Rhino do the job? Does anyone use this stick or recommend me an alternative option. I have heard quality control is an issue with the x56.

 

Best Regards,

Price

 

I had the same dilemma this week when my last hotas broke. After reading reviews on the second spin of the X56, issues with stick and mini stick requiring dead zones still exist. For that amount of money, I will pass. Newegg and Walmart both have the Warthog on sale for $350 right now which is about what they go for used on Ebay.

 

Until I found the sale, I was going to do the Thrustmaster T1600 combo on Amazon for $110.

 

If you end up getting the X56, now is the time to do it from a place with extended holiday returns (Amazon, and I think Newegg), so you until the end of Jan to find issues with it and send it back.

Edited November 27, 2018 by boscoh

[Sn8ke_iis]

My 2 cents, don't skimp on the HOTAS. All those processors you are looking at will be obsolescent in a couple years, the HOTAS won't. The Warthog model has been around circa 2010. I've have a Cougar set that's older than that. Peripherals don't have to keep up with Moore's law.

[etherbattx]

assuming you have a newish ssd from the last 2 years or so, i wouldn’t worry about the pagefile or where it’s located.

 

in a blind test, you will not notice any difference between having a pagefile or not having a pagefile.

 

and it’s the same with the pagefile location. you will not notice any difference between the pagefile being on the boot drive or on a 2nd ssd drive.

[Pricer27421]

What’s your guys though on ordering the cheap Logitech extreme 3D pro for the time being until quality control gets a bit better. I have seen people have no issues with it although I know it is not ideal.

 

Thanks,

Price

[Headwarp]

What’s your guys though on ordering the cheap Logitech extreme 3D pro for the time being until quality control gets a bit better. I have seen people have no issues with it although I know it is not ideal.

 

Thanks,

Price

 

If you're gentle with it, which imo you should be if you want to pilot anyway, logitech extreme 3d pro will do you fine, although you'll likely have to learn a lot of keyboard strokes. If you do get too rough with it, it's a lot less painful to replace. I've seen them as low as $35 USD new.

 

Personally my experiences with Saitek aren't good ones. Had bad times with the x52 pro and their profile rudder pedals. x56 is pretty much the same thing as the x55 when saitek was still saitek. But, on the plus, logitech seems to have taken over the software side of things so that much is likely an improvement over when saitek was saitek.

 

That being said - ime saitek uses cheap plastic and is prone to wires breaking over time.

 

 

CH products might be a good alternative if the warthog is just too much, though you likely want some pedals with that. I'm not sure the CH sticks twist. You would want pedals for sure with the warthog if you went that route.

 

But, joysticks, vr headsets, rudder pedals, DIY, or Obutto or Volair pits.. this is part of why I call this hobby of ours a money sink. Although, there are far more expensive hobbies out there once you get past the initial investments for flight simming.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Headwarp