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Real F/A-18 Pilot Tries DCS: F/A-18 - Part TWO


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Nice feedback, especially the fact the the DCS Hornet for now drags a lot. I was surprised on how fast it looses airspeed and how hard it is for the hornet to gain speed, feels like it is being hold back or that it has a lot of drag ...i am pleased to see it was not only a feeling from my part.

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great vid! thank you Mover for sharing. (would be cool to hear your thoughts via flying the Bug in VR).

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If you will be playing again Mover, give the trackir some more time, it takes time to get used to it. It's also possible to be used with headphones and different type of tracker. The sensitivity is completely modifiable.

 

Or maybe you will not play ever again? :) I suppose the flight sim experience is simply inferior to the real thing. Although you could fly your "dream" scenarios in DCS that you could not in real life, or even try another air plane you did not fly.

 

Good video with a lot of insight from real live.

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I *love* the procedural stuff. The hand signals, the comms, etc. VR does make it so much easier because you can just look around like in real life. Thanks for taking the time to edit and upload. I don't think people understand the amount of time it takes to cut the video and publish it on YT.

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Interesting but I submit if you don't like trackir then you don't have it properly configured as well you need the clip.

 

No wonder u lost site right away without trackir.

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Interesting but I submit if you don't like trackir then you don't have it properly configured as well you need the clip.

 

No wonder u lost site right away without trackir.

 

 

 

Yes he was using track hat with passive ir....surely the track clip (or the alternatives) are mor precise

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I think things turned out great overall. In no way did I expected Mover to take to DCS like a fish. I did everything I could to make sure the experience was a good one knowing up front that it was going to be tough. That is in fact the entire reason I reached out to him when he said he was going to install DCS. You don't just install DCS. :D

 

Mover, Carl and I had a lot of fun, the people in Florida got some much needed help, and people outside of the DCS community got exposed to DCS as well. It's a win for everyone as I see it. Triple wins are hard to come by in life, folks. This one was probably one of the best I'll ever experience in my lifetime.

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Yes he was using track hat with passive ir....surely the track clip (or the alternatives) are mor precise

 

I found the the track clip is actually not more precise. In fact it's worse. Turn your head too far to the side that the track-clip is mounted on and you've lost signal. Your face blocks it. Nevermind the extra wire that gets tangled up in your headset wires and the poorly engineered clip itself that breaks after 6 month of use. It's a gimmick and it's garbage IMO.

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Interesting but I submit if you don't like trackir then you don't have it properly configured as well you need the clip.

 

No wonder u lost site right away without trackir.

 

It's not that. It's the exaggerated motion of TrackIR that can be very disorienting until you get used to it. The lack of 1 to 1 *is* something your brain has to learn how to deal with because your head is pointed one way, but you're "looking" another way. It's not like in VR where you are getting a true one to one view of the world.

 

As Mover stated in the video, as a "fighter pilot you are always looking around" He even showed the real life version of it. That's what gets disorienting if you don't train your brain to use TIR.

 

Again, something you get naturally with VR but will never have with TiR because it's a different technology.

 

But let's not detract into VR is better than TIR is better than VR. I was just pointing out different techs.


Edited by hansangb

hsb

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Real F/A-18 Pilot Tries DCS: F/A-18 - Part TWO

 

I found the the track clip is actually not more precise. In fact it's worse. Turn your head too far to the side that the track-clip is mounted on and you've lost signal. Your face blocks it. Nevermind the extra wire that gets tangled up in your headset wires and the poorly engineered clip itself that breaks after 6 month of use. It's a gimmick and it's garbage IMO.

 

 

 

I respect your opinion ... anyway i use a custom track clip (no wires...usb rechargable battery built by bartek) and ps3eye camera so things could be different for me...also i switch from that to vr depending on the flight i want to do.

 

anyway i really thank you for having brought us Mover and this wonderful experience. It was really fun and interesting.

I think a lot of people here should just thank you and Mover for this opportunity....it is not something that happens every day


Edited by VirusAM

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It's not that. It's the exaggerated motion of TrackIR that can be very disorienting until you get used to it. The lack of 1 to 1 *is* something your brain has to learn how to deal with because your head is pointed one way, but you're "looking" another way. It's not like in VR where you are getting a true one to one view of the world.

 

 

 

As Mover stated in the video, as a "fighter pilot you are always looking around" He even showed the real life version of it. That's what gets disorienting if you don't train your brain to use TIR.

 

 

 

Again, something you get naturally with VR but will never have with TiR because it's a different technology.

 

 

 

Yes i second that as well

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I am really greatful to all of the real world Hornet pilots who have come to the DCS community to enlighten us all on their experiences and provide insight into the aircraft including procedures, handling, in depth nerdery, etc. Thanks to Mover and others for indulging us aviation enthusiasts, and I sincerely hope you aren't driven away by the very few people (from the old thread) who are just a complete headache to us all. Simmers like me hope to be pilots one day, not the other way around. :)

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I think if the controls were mapped to what Mover was used to (at least as close as we can get with what we have available) and VR would REALLY help with his view of flying in DCS (which he did acknowledge in the video).

 

As others have said... trackir not only takes a lot of getting used to... but also initial tweeking to get it how you like it.

 

Anyway, as I said in the other thread, thanks again to Mover and Bananimal for making the video possible in the first place.

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There was a point where he says that if someone was to learn the Hornet in the sim, and then go fly the real thing, "probably not".

Topic starter: Honestly, I disagree. Some of us might not know the proper technique to hold Gs, and even more of us don't have the physique. But to just fly the Hornet, I probably could. And mostly because of how easy it is to fly, thanks to fly by wire. I scarcely rely on controller buttons, so I remember where the basic controls are. The only basic ones that might trip me up are the nose wheel steering gain and the paddle, because I do have those mapped, and I normally can't see them. I believe that if I was in a for real F/A-18C Lot 20 Hornet (for a reason that does not even begin to exist), from the ground at least, I could successfully manage to start, taxi, take off, fly, and roughly land it (not on the boat) purely off of experience in DCS. But that's it. Anything else, and I am sure to screw up, possibly fatally.

FC3, I won't even know how to start the things. Mi-8, I'll die. P-51, I will likely crash. BF-109, I will die. Spitfire, I'm definitely lawn fertilizer in that one! F-5E, I might work it out, maybe. Big maybe. Big maybe on the Ka-50 as well.

I don't have the Mirage, but if I had to fly the real counterpart of a DCS module, the Hornet would offer the best chance of survival.

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I don't think the limitation is on the knowledge of how one should fly. It's the sheer information overload when your *LIFE* is on the line. I mean they take brand new people up to the sky and let them jink around for a bit. Doesn't me they can fly the plane. I think we tend to overlook the sheer complexity of the instruments, tactics, and plane management because there are no consequences.

 

The best example I can come up with is that anyone can walk along the last part of the sidewalk (the part that separates the concrete from the street). But now walk the same narrow path 5,000 feet in the air. I doubt many could.

 

So if there was an IP who could take over the minute you mess up, I would agree with you. But if you were to solo, I think you'd lawn dart it because of information overload and the speed at which it takes place.

 

DCS in VR is VASTLY different then DCS in TrackIR in terms of "feeling the speed". Now imagine doing it up in the air. That's a whole new ball game.

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I believe that if I was in a for real F/A-18C Lot 20 Hornet (for a reason that does not even begin to exist), from the ground at least, I could successfully manage to start, taxi, take off, fly, and roughly land it (not on the boat) purely off of experience in DCS. But that's it.

 

Yeah, nah.

 

I flew MS Flight Sim and X Plane for 15 years, and the first time I flew in a 2 seat Extra 300 and Pitts S2A, I felt like a fish completely out of water. Heck, I felt like that even on my 5th time.

 

That's because no sim, with even the most powerful graphics setup and VR, can come close to recreating the limbic system experience, and thus your reactions to the aircraft's movements would be nothing like they are on the sim. This would be true in Cessna, let alone in a uber high performance fighter jet.

 

It's like if you'd never driven a motor vehicle before, I don't care how great a car/truck simulator you might have used, you're got going to be able drive one in real life unassisted the first time.

 

At BEST you could startup and taxi at low speeds. Takeoff and land, forget about it....even with minimal g loads and flying like a grandma.

 

Back to topic, I think we all enjoy such comparison testimonials from real life pilots because they validate our simulated experience. And no doubt DCS is extremely high fidelity ('study' sim level). But a simulation inexorably bounded to the audio-visual media, no more.

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I don't think the limitation is on the knowledge of how one should fly. It's the sheer information overload when your *LIFE* is on the line. I mean they take brand new people up to the sky and let them jink around for a bit. Doesn't me they can fly the plane. I think we tend to overlook the sheer complexity of the instruments, tactics, and plane management because there are no consequences.

 

The best example I can come up with is that anyone can walk along the last part of the sidewalk (the part that separates the concrete from the street). But now walk the same narrow path 5,000 feet in the air. I doubt many could.

 

So if there was an IP who could take over the minute you mess up, I would agree with you. But if you were to solo, I think you'd lawn dart it because of information overload and the speed at which it takes place.

 

DCS in VR is VASTLY different then DCS in TrackIR in terms of "feeling the speed". Now imagine doing it up in the air. That's a whole new ball game.

 

Spot on!

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There was a point where he says that if someone was to learn the Hornet in the sim, and then go fly the real thing, "probably not".

Topic starter: Honestly, I disagree.

 

Yet, he has flown the plane and you haven't.

 

Like the above poster said, flying the plane is a different animal in real life.

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Yeah, nah.

 

I flew MS Flight Sim and X Plane for 15 years, and the first time I flew in a 2 seat Extra 300 and Pitts S2A, I felt like a fish completely out of water. Heck, I felt like that even on my 5th time.

 

That's because no sim, with even the most powerful graphics setup and VR, can come close to recreating the limbic system experience, and thus your reactions to the aircraft's movements would be nothing like they are on the sim. This would be true in Cessna, let alone in a uber high performance fighter jet.

 

It's like if you'd never driven a motor vehicle before, I don't care how great a car/truck simulator you might have used, you're got going to be able drive one in real life unassisted the first time.

 

At BEST you could startup and taxi at low speeds. Takeoff and land, forget about it....even with minimal g loads and flying like a grandma.

 

Back to topic, I think we all enjoy such comparison testimonials from real life pilots because they validate our simulated experience. And no doubt DCS is extremely high fidelity ('study' sim level). But a simulation inexorably bounded to the audio-visual media, no more.

 

The forces and speed IRL, could very much overwhelm you, these guy's have trained all the way through, on many different aircraft before flying a fighter.

 

So are very prepared for the sensations.

 

You only need to

to see the skills needed and not to get overwhelmed.

 

Then there's is this guy with NO training and managed to land this small aircraft at night.

 

That's impressive...

 


Edited by David OC

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