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today's WAGS video about BRA and BULLS and Magnetic vs True


JEFX

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Hi, I hope somebody from ED or Wags could answer this question please: there has been a discussion going on about the fact that in our Hornet, the HUD and HSI are in MAGNETIC degrees and the ATK RADAR in TRUE... see here And I did some research and actually asked Vincent 'Jell-O' Aiello from the Fighter Pilot Podcast about this and his answer was unequivocal: 'everything in the cockpit is magnetic' see here .

 

This morning, Wags posted a nice video about the upcoming BULLS and BRA function in the radar, with so-called AA waypoints. Looking at the displays, it is evident that this situation has not been corrected : both the HUD and HSI point to 057ish degrees and the Radar is 060 degrees and, Yes, the magnetic declination in the PG at that latitude and longitude is about 2.5 degrees East now...

 

I find this a bit annoying, especially in this context where directions given are very important for tactical purpose... how are we supposed to use BRA calls and functions if the instruments dont match?

 

thanks

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

In DCS I fly jets with thousands of pounds of thrust...

In real life I fly a humble Cessna Hawx XP II with 210 HP :D

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As long as bullseye is in the middle of the operating area then the difference is pretty negligble in operations. In Alaska and Northern Canada everyone would operate in True which you can select in the Hornet in the Aircraft data options. This would put the whole Aircraft into true.

I am not saying it doesn't need fixed but it is not that big of a deal.

If bullseye is 180 miles away however it becomes an issue as 1 degree is 3 nm for this reason IRL bullseye is kept close to the operating area if at all possible.

 

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Actually, I had not read the last few 'mini-updates' and Wags says (regarding the new Bulls AA waypoints and BRA functions:

 

5- The arrow pointer on the bullseye symbols can point to either true or magnetic north, based on the HSI/DATA/AC sublevel selection.

 

so I guess I have my answer! Thanks again Wags for all the very informative and precise communications!:thumbup:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

In DCS I fly jets with thousands of pounds of thrust...

In real life I fly a humble Cessna Hawx XP II with 210 HP :D

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[...]

IRL bullseye is kept close to the operating area if at all possible.

 

I‘ve found that to be a very helpful principle in mission design in order to make it easier to build the mental picture when AWACS is giving information.

 

When bullseye is set too far away from the action, say far south of it, all the bandits posits are always „somewhere north“. If bullseye is right in the middle of the party bearings from it will vary much and makes it much easier to find the bogeys and bandits.


Edited by Hog_No32
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  • 2 years later...
  • 1 month later...

This is still confusing...

Just made an experiment in the Hornet (latest open beta as of now, 2.7.7.15038) and I have put one bandit in front of me and an AWACS somewhere orbiting afar.

I made a waypoint the BULLS (AA waypoint) in the HSI and my HSI/DATA/AC is still in MAG (by default).

If I ask the AWACS a BOGEY DOPE he will give a BRA in TRUE degrees (and YES, it makes a big difference in Nevada, with a 12E degrees!)

If I ask a PICTURE, he will give a BULS call in TRUE as well (as one can see looking at the F10 map in game).

The AA radar is picking up the target and when locked it gives me a BRA in TRUE 

 

but...

the SA page has the target's HAFU with datalink by the AWACS and it gives a BRA in MAG !!!!!!

I see the BRA in MAG on one display and the BRA in True on the other (with a clear difference of 12 degrees...)

this is becoming a bit confusing and I cannot believe that in the heat of battle, a fighter pilot would have to calculate the Magnetic Declination for some instruments and not the others...

Again I quote Vincent 'Jell-O' Aiello to whom I wrote about the Hornet (see above) and he said about the various displays in the cockpit: 'everything is magnetic!'...

Anybody from ED can shed some light on this please?

thanks!

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

In DCS I fly jets with thousands of pounds of thrust...

In real life I fly a humble Cessna Hawx XP II with 210 HP :D

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Wow, I never knew about this bug.  I typically fly the middle east maps and so I guess I didn't notice as the variation is not as significant.

But in aviation, everything related to course, displayed anywhere in the cockpit, is typically magnetic.  There's no good reason to display it in true.  So this is very weird behavior.  Good to be aware of. 

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YES! I am a pilot (despite a modest Private Pilot with a modest Cessna) and it is the norm...

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

In DCS I fly jets with thousands of pounds of thrust...

In real life I fly a humble Cessna Hawx XP II with 210 HP :D

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FA18C RADAR AND SA PAGES.png

Here is an example of the problem...  I have a target at my twelve O'clock that is datalinked to me by the AWACS behind me.

On my RADAR page on the left one can see that it is marked BRA 346 degrees for 29 NM, which is in TRUE north (compare with the screenshot of the F10 map just in the next post) and which is the BRA that the AWACS just told me on the radio when I asked for BOGEY DOPE (I still cannot understand why AWACS would give its BRAs in TRUE, but that is another matter...).  But on the SA page on the right DDI, the same Bandit is marked BRA 335 degrees for 29 NM !!! with 11 degrees substracted (therefore exactly the Magnetic bearing)...

 

 

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

In DCS I fly jets with thousands of pounds of thrust...

In real life I fly a humble Cessna Hawx XP II with 210 HP :D

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On the F10 map, one can see that the bandit is 347 degrees for 28 NM, the small difference is because I have used active pause to take my pictures and the bandit had moved a litlle (again in True, since all maps are in True, including the F10 map).

I find it impossible to build a strong SA picture when one DDI is giving a TRUE BRA and another one a MAGNETIC BRA..

Furthermore, on the radar page alone, on the top line, there is my heading (magnetic of course) and on the left, the position of the bandit relative to the Bullseye in... TRUE... just side by side...  that doesn't make any sense no?  

or am I missing something???

thanks ED, keep the great work, the Hornet is fantastic!

but please, do solve this strange behavior that is against all rules of normal (western at least) aviation..

JEFX

FA18C MAP.png

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

In DCS I fly jets with thousands of pounds of thrust...

In real life I fly a humble Cessna Hawx XP II with 210 HP :D

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I did some tests and it seems the Bullseye indication in the SA page and radar page are locked at true north despite what you set in the HSI. The BRA indications in the radar page are also locked to true, but the BRA in the SA page matches the HSI setting. Also, the current heading in the radar page matches HSI settings as well.

It's obvious that ED did this because all AWACS calls are in true and they wanted their calls to match what the player sees in the cockpit without having to put all the systems in true.

Now we understand why this is, maybe it's a good time for ED to step up and simulate the Hornet as it is IRL and let the pilot deal with the AWACS unrealistic calls and choose if he wants to set the cockpit in true or mag.


Edited by hein22
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Stay safe

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