Horns Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 So the statement from your Youtube account was a mistake then? Come on man I hoped you guys would learn from last year. I'd like to note that my "extreme displeasure" is not directed at the QUALITY of the module, which I am 100% sure will exceed my expectations, but rather is directed at the quality of your public relations. Quite frankly I find it extremely petty that you would tell me to simply not purchase what will likely be a genre defining module to express how annoyed I am at not your module quality, but at your marketing. I hope you can see from my point of view why I am frustrated about this. I get you being upset that they haven't met the 2018 deadline mentioned on the Heatblur YouTube account. That date was revised to "this Winter" on or before September 29, three months before the 2018 deadline would expire, and before they started accepting pre-orders. Looking beyond the question of deadlines, it's difficult to understand what you want. Is there anything Heatblur could do for you that would make you more satisfied? Have you purchased the model, and if so have you applied for a refund? I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to get to the substance of what you are asking for. Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC] Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3 VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind, DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy_99 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I’m starting to enjoy the tantrums. Merry Christmas! Hes clearly so un grateful. Put coal in his stocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) This is not a single developer's issue. DCS as a whole has a massive problem for announcing or signaling release dates and then missing them by a huge margin. Please, don't get this started again. We have been at that point before and the consequence was that devs refused to give any release estimates anymore. I would rather have estimates of what the devs believe is possible, even if they turn out to be wrong in the end, than not getting any estimates at all. In case of the F-14 they have said they hope to release the F-14 before christmas, but have promised Winter 2018/2019. Software development is tricky and difficult to predict. That's just the way it is. Edited December 13, 2018 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKay Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 As much as I'd like to fly the tomcat, I want to cut HB some slack. Comming for the Software Industries myself I can tell you Software can be a ****. HB is exploring new water with the tomcat and its systems. In development there is always going something wrong. I guess we could have had the tomcat in summer this year, which wouldn't be that much later than promised. Do you guys really think ED would allow the Tomcat to be released this close after the Hornet? People would possibly buy the tomcat over the hornet. But what could heatblur do instead of just waiting? Yeah keep developing new features. At least that what I thought when they teased us with the LATRIN image - a new feature. But then a point comes where ED is ok with releasing a competetive module to the hornet, which is roughly about a half year later. So time for HB to wrap the development up and polish the current state. And my guess is they are doing this right now. The only thing I would like to see them change is being more open, about their next steps. But I dont know all the factors, maybe a release for 2018 is still on the table. So I expect HB to communicate the next steps as soon as they figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel_108 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Please, don't get this started again. We have been at that point before and the consequence was that devs refused to give any release estimates anymore. I would rather have estimates of what the devs believe is possible, even if they turn out to be wrong in the end, than not getting any estimates at all. In case of the F-14 they have said they hope to release the F-14 before christmas, but have promised Winter 2018/2019. I agree 100%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Jaw Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Its toxic people like you that give the community a bad name. Had they not said anything either you or somebody else would have been complaining that they aren't communicating enough. That was the point of my post, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Please learn to read before you pop off like a spoiled entitled child next time. ' +1. "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, ASUS RTX3060ti/8GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) Mkay hit the nail on the head with his post. Also, many chose (including the OP) to ignore the second part of Cobra's statement "barring unforseen circumstances", which is exactly what happened. Now I don't claim to know what those were but I have a very good idea (that could still be wrong). I think the F14 was probably going to drop late 2017 early 2018, in a similar state to how the Hornet dropped. Then ED suddenly decided to start up the F18 hype train, and Heatblur chose to postpone the Tomcat and bring it to a much higher level of completion and polish so as not to compete with the Hornet. (I don't think this is a conspiracy theory, it is a mutually beneficent scenario as most people would buy both modules in that case) Now this is all speculation and could be completely wrong, but for whatever reason the Tomcat WAS delayed, that is a fact and we all just have to deal with it. Edited December 13, 2018 by OnlyforDCS Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Have we seen the, well in advance before release promised: manual, youtubers getting per-release, in depth system videos & most importantly RIO Cockpit??? Nope! so unless Santa is real, forget about December. Why do we have to see those? All of those take time to produce, time that could be spent polishing those very same systems. You can't infer a release date from marketing videos. Oh and by the way we saw the module in a very exciting (and very combat capable) stream/video just the other week. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille H. Mono Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) It is funny how people who can't handle hype in themselves, or suffer severely when exposed to other's optimism, are prone to drop by this topics. And yet the have the nerve to tell people to get a life.:lol: Edited December 13, 2018 by Guille H. Mono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I think this thread is a great example of where the common view upon the F-14's release is divided, many are overly optimistic and others are overly pessimistic. I think there is definitely something to be taken from F22xRaptors point and some to someones like GrizzlyBears83 points. I sit somewhere in the middle of them, I don't think it will be released in 2018, but am not too critical of previous promises, yes it is mind boggling how many deadlines haven't been met... I also like to think I sit somewhere in the middle, so very much agree with this. While F22xRaptor could have perhaps been more... diplomatic, I believe they have brought attention to some of the frustrations within the community. Whether some might find them legitmate or not is irrelevent; they're there. Also, many chose (including the OP) to ignore the second part of Cobra's statement "barring unforseen circumstances", which is exactly what happened. You're probably right, so what are those circumstances? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't expect HB to air their dirty laundary, nor would I expect them to make any promises they can't keep (including giving specific dates). Just a little info. No matter what a dev does they'll get criticised. However, I've been on the forums for a long time and I honestly don't think the keeping quiet strategy has ever been the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Idea Hat Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 My favorite part about these threads is that they are now Spiderman threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmidtfire Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Obviously, Heatblur knows if Tomcat will be released within a week from now or if they still got a month or two worth of development before hitting Early Access.This is just the usual "cloak and daggers" dev routine. Keep the hypetrain going strong and release-dates loose, if it starts to derail on the forums - throw in a screenshot or in worst case scenario - a video. And at the last minute, throw in an apology that states it will take a bit more time, but will be worth it. Pretty much the story of every module released :lol: Totally understand that some gets frustrated by this "foggy" approach, especially during pre-sale. But I don't expect more and I don't mind waiting :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Obviously, Heatblur knows if Tomcat will be released within a week from now or if they still got a month or two worth of development before hitting Early Access.This is just the usual "cloak and daggers" dev routine. Keep the hypetrain going strong and release-dates loose, if it starts to derail on the forums - throw in a screenshot or in worst case scenario - a video. And at the last minute, throw in an apology that states it will take a bit more time, but will be worth it. Pretty much the story of every module released :lol: Totally understand that some gets frustrated by this "foggy" approach, especially during pre-sale. But I don't expect more and I don't mind waiting :) So you expect the devs to tell you every week that the module will not be released in the next week? I think that time is better being spend on actual development work... Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 so many missed points on this thread lol.. so many... wish I had some popcorn ready before starting to read this. Tips for players/customers: chill, thread tantrums don't bring modules. You best way to protest against their practices is just not buying or moving to another game.. oh wait.. there's only DCS. So... hmmm.. OK, just chill then. Tips for Devs/3rd parties/whoever involved in the development somehow: there are some free crash courses on PR and marketing on sites like coursera, you should consider take them ;) wink wink kappa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivo Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 unfortunately once again I believed I bought it as soon as it came out ... from now on I will not buy as long as available. STOP TO PRE-ORDER, simple No pre-order No discussion... cpu:I7-6700k Z170 16GB Ram DDR4 Gtx 1080 8Gb DDR5 11GBs SSD 500 Gb 2 HDD 1Tb Evga supernova G2 850w Case Bequiet series 800 Silent base Win 10 pro 64 bit My wishlist: F-35/B-17G/F4U Corsair/Yak-3/P-40B Tomahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSKRipper Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Nice so you can't refute my point and evidence so you revert to name calling, very mature. You should be ashamed of yourself for lowering yourself to this level. You know that DCS changed it's major build to the 2.5 level early 2018? Maybe you would have had more fun playing with the v1.5 Tomcat in a possible 2017 release for the rest of your life because it wont get further upgrades… Take it easy, if you can't live with some delays you should stay away from simulations in general because I don't know one single program which hit it's milestone. i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy_99 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Idea Hat Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Yeah, that really got out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudel_chw Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 What a useless thread ... reminded me of reddit :( For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1 Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 You best way to protest against their practices is just not buying or moving to another game... That's last ditch option. It's better for all involved if feedback is given/received, even if you don't agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 That's last ditch option. It's better for all involved if feedback is given/received, even if you don't agree with it. You r right, but my post was more of a joke than anything else.. nobody is listening to anybody.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudel_chw Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Why is it that people in this community have to insult other part of the community all the time? Saying that the thread is useles, is hardly an insult .. dont you think? More offensive is nagging about a release date. For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1 Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I think this thread is probably more constructive than most would give it credit for. I'm impressed actually, as it's gotten a bit heated but generally people have put across their views, even strong ones, without it getting too personal. For 8 pages on such a contentious issue, that's not bad. Plus Cobra has contributed. Hopefully he won't take anything said here personally, and will be a bit more open in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECV56CHUMBO Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 please... [sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic135935_1.gif[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoBlue Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Why do we have to see those? All of those take time to produce, time that could be spent polishing those very same systems. You can't infer a release date from marketing videos. Oh and by the way we saw the module in a very exciting (and very combat capable) stream/video just the other week. I didn't say we have to see the per-release stuff, Cobra said that those stuff would come before release & they haven't. Don't shoot the messenger! . And if HB have changed their minds about the marketing videos etc., they certainty havn't communicated it. Yes that stream was grate, but we still didn't see the RIO cockpit & it's systems, thus my thoughts about the holdup.....before summer is my expectation, no need to hype for me. :smilewink: i7 8700k@4.7, 1080ti, DDR4 32GB, 2x SSD , HD 2TB, W10, ASUS 27", TrackIr5, TMWH, X-56, GProR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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