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F-14 Release Date Discussion Thread


zhujiammy

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We work with people close to us who we trust.

The more eyes (at this point) the more we fix, the better things are on D-Day.

 

 

(Most of us) trust and support you, Cobra. Do what needs to be done.

 

 

Though I am extremely envious...:pilotfly:

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Maybe because they don't even know? Realistically, the MiG-19 is about to be released as well. Judging from past release trends, there's not going to be two modules released at the same time and cutting into each others sales.

 

At this point I'm just wondering if the F-14 will be released first instead of the MiG-19 or vice versa.

 

Well anyone could have paid for the Tomcat for long enough already. Not so for the MiG. So it's basically a decision just for the ones who didn't pay for the 'cat yet, also missing the chance to get $10 off at the same time.

 

I wouldn't mind the 'cat first at all though dealwithit.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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Actually they're just waiting for Meteor to polish his licks making the soundtrack about 20% cooler rdlaugh.png

 

Personally I'd really prefer the 27th now... got 3 days off around the weekend after that which would be just about perfect to spend on the 'cat dealwithit.png

 

After all, they most probably do aim for that date just to make sure they don't even miss their winter time frame in case something goes awry. And even if that's not being nailed down 2 weeks later, they'd still have another one keeping up their guaranteed "by Mar 20th" date. They really don't want to mess that one up as pitchforks and torches probably will be ready by then rdlaugh.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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Given that the F-14 introduces entirely new concepts and the necessary software to replicate them, how can you possibly expect Heatblur to be able to predict, to the day, when those concepts reach maturity?

 

It seems we will always be on the horns of a dilemma regarding completeness or punctuality. We either get things to a schedule, or we get things that are more complete and robust.

 

Add to that the fact that the core program is not under their direct control and you are approaching a perfect storm situation.

 

The real question we need to be asking is what software house in it’s right mind would even consider investing in such a flawed business model!

 

It’s nigh on impossible to predict when or what obstacles coding will throw up. It’s also impossible to say when your partner in putting together a platform will do the coding to enable your own additions to fit seamlessly.

 

That, plus it is always winter somewhere on our home planet!

 

All we can really do is give Heatblur the space and trust to enable them to have the flexibility to judge for themselves when the project reaches a state that we can all be happy with. It is simply too complex to manage to the hour when x or y is sufficiently complete for release.

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If it's good enough for you tubers to play a 10 vs 10 online game, it's good enough for people who bought an early access 3 months ago..

 

Yes. I am a bit frustrated and jealous :D

 

 

I agree!

 

 

Seriously; the time begins to be long; and the patience to be strain.

It was cool to watch the jabber's videos; but the time pass away, and we gets frustated

 

 

It's like a beautiful present for a kid:

 

 

the present is at home, he saw this; and you say....not the moment, not the moment.....but any time, during the winter.

 

 

Psychologic torture? ;)

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my interpretation of Early access would be what the "YouTubers" have now. The ability to start learning the jet while other things are still in a WIP state.

 

I personally wouldn't mind having the jet while the back seat is being worked on, it would seem that there is enough content currently (in the front seat) to allow people to have access to the jet.

 

I also personally get a little annoyed that "YouTubers" get to have the aircraft before the regular people that have paid for it, like myself. but that is just my personal opinion.

 

Thanks Specter

 

this...

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Given that the F-14 introduces entirely new concepts and the necessary software to replicate them, how can you possibly expect Heatblur to be able to predict, to the day, when those concepts reach maturity?

 

I wouldn't, but I don't think that means they should keep quiet either. ED are getting better at this with their Hornet updates, which are a good start. I'd ultimately like to see a detailed list of features with an indicative order/time frame. Keeping it vague is fine (I agree it's almost impossible to be accurate) but I think in the long run early access needs greater transparency.

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When the tomcat isn't released in the update today

 

49c22bc6aaa025bcc11999a675249621.jpg

 

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When the tomcat isn't released in the update today

 

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

You expected it just to release with no announcements ahead of time?

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You expected it just to release with no announcements ahead of time?
No. Hence the sarcastic meme

 

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Given that the F-14 introduces entirely new concepts and the necessary software to replicate them, how can you possibly expect Heatblur to be able to predict, to the day, when those concepts reach maturity?

 

I think this misses the point a little, with software you're right we are notoriously bad at estimating how long something will take - since usually if you are building it its because it does not presently exist and you effectively are rolling R&D / Production into one big batch.

 

What you can control however is scope and feature creep. I can't give you a reliable estimate of how long it will take to build for example the simulation of the engine, or mach sweep programmer. What i can do is decide how much content is necessary on day one and limit development to that.

 

Another thing that's well understood is that feature development and polishing and bugfixing do not generally go hand in hand. The more someone adds surface area at one end the less polished the overall package is. It's just another form of scope creep.

 

Heatblur have done exactly this, to a point. The complete module as I understand it includes

 

  • F-14A
  • F-14B
  • Carrier
  • F-14A Campaign
  • F-14B Campaign
  • A6E AI

 

So for the minimum product required to launch they identified the F-14B, which does not require any of the other items in the list to be complete.

 

Based on the updates we have received in the lead-up to Christmas is where the feature creep starts, the initial target and expectation seemed to be a complete aircraft, lacking the LANTIRN integration and self designation for LGBs.

 

As the goal neared we got a fairly standard software response (don't get me wrong, I'm not above this and have used it many times myself) .... no we haven't finished what we said we would on time, but to try and make up for it here's a drawer of puppies.

 

Or in other words, no we will miss christmas, but now when we launch we will have full LANTIRN integration.

 

As I've said before I would have been more aggressive with cutting content from the early access release, and would have gone as far as sticking to the Jester AI / A2A only F-14B, any work going into features beyond that is work that isn't getting the initial release out the door.

 

Please don't interpret any of this as getting at Heatblur, they have been very professional and showing incredible skill at developing the F-14 this far. I simply have a different opinion on how to manage timescales / scope and expectations.

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I can't believe I'm saying this, and many are going to hate me for it, but I'd much prefer for the early access of DCS modules to be abolished across the board.

I don't belong to the "just release it already" crowd and I'd rather wait another year to fly the F-14 and have a fully feature complete module.

 

I think it goes without saying that DCS developers, both ED and 3rd party, have the very best of intentions when making and releasing a module. However, the lack of pressure to finish the product has resulted in a lot of unfinished modules. I recognize that the modules are continually being worked on and I'm not necessarily criticizing any lack of progress, but it makes for a very strange state of DCS World where most of the modules are in various states of being unfinished or unpolished, missing manuals etc.

I think Heatblur is generally very good with this, but the Viggen is still marked as in "early access" several years later.

ED and other developers have also made truly excellent modules, but which are still incomplete.

 

With the early access scheme, the temptation is very strong to move resources to other projects in order to open new revenue streams. As a result DCS as a whole feels very sandboxy to me.

What I would rather see is complete modules with much tighter content, a slick singleplayer and a streamlined multiplayer experience.

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Hi

Having an interest in the Tomcat since it was announced I still need to ask this question.

 

What is the plan for the early access path to release?

 

I am asking this for obvious reasons - like the concept of "early access" being abused by publishers/studios - that is in general, not only in DCS. Is this going to be yet another module that stays in "Early Access" (Work in progress) for years, or is there a plan to have it released, let's say the end of spring 2020?

 

I am serious - no need to answer with "it will be released when it is ready" as I know this too well, however, if one is asking for funds, one should be transparent as to their plan. We are all investors here after all.

 

The OP's core question was "what is the plan for the early access path to release?" Cobra847 has said that they will illustrate this before launch. Many of us have given our opinions on the OP's question itself and the comments surrounding it. Those of us (including me) who want to have the argument over whether EA needs to change had/have plenty of other threads to comment in and the OP didn't ask anything about that, so I don't think turning this thread into another one will serve much purpose.

 

Just one guy's personal opinion.

 

 

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I can't believe I'm saying this, and many are going to hate me for it, but I'd much prefer for the early access of DCS modules to be abolished across the board.

I don't belong to the "just release it already" crowd and I'd rather wait another year to fly the F-14 and have a fully feature complete module.

 

I think it goes without saying that DCS developers, both ED and 3rd party, have the very best of intentions when making and releasing a module. However, the lack of pressure to finish the product has resulted in a lot of unfinished modules. I recognize that the modules are continually being worked on and I'm not necessarily criticizing any lack of progress, but it makes for a very strange state of DCS World where most of the modules are in various states of being unfinished or unpolished, missing manuals etc.

I think Heatblur is generally very good with this, but the Viggen is still marked as in "early access" several years later.

ED and other developers have also made truly excellent modules, but which are still incomplete.

 

With the early access scheme, the temptation is very strong to move resources to other projects in order to open new revenue streams. As a result DCS as a whole feels very sandboxy to me.

What I would rather see is complete modules with much tighter content, a slick singleplayer and a streamlined multiplayer experience.

 

I wonder, with modules as complex as they are now, could devs survive without early access to get some money in the door? I honestly don't know, but it's possible they couldn't.

 

Otherwise you presented a perfectly valid and well reasoned argument, IMO. I think early access is here to stay for the most part though, hence devs need to be more open about what features to expect when, in order to remove the temptation to never finish a module.

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Good points Flamin_Squirrel, maybe the current level of details is too deep for what tools are available to reach there.

 

 

Boris, good points too - only thing that will make ED and 3rd's to change is the customer base.

 

Reading these boards I cannot see any reason for them to change in a looong time.

We others only have one solution at hand, to walk away.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I dont understand the constant complaining about EA in this community.

 

 

Dont buy it. Or go to a competitor...oh wait there are none!

 

 

Dont bite the hand that feeds you. Or the only Tomcat you would see is the Aerosoft one with no combat environment (TackPack is not a fix for that).

"You see, IronHand is my thing"

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I dont understand the constant complaining about EA in this community.

 

 

Dont buy it. Or go to a competitor...oh wait there are none!

 

 

Dont bite the hand that feeds you. Or the only Tomcat you would see is the Aerosoft one with no combat environment (TackPack is not a fix for that).

 

not to mention the poor FSX / P3D flight model limitations.

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I can't believe I'm saying this, and many are going to hate me for it, but I'd much prefer for the early access of DCS modules to be abolished across the board.

I don't belong to the "just release it already" crowd and I'd rather wait another year to fly the F-14 and have a fully feature complete module.

 

I'm with you on this.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I dont understand the constant complaining about EA in this community.

 

 

Dont buy it. Or go to a competitor...oh wait there are none!

 

 

Dont bite the hand that feeds you. Or the only Tomcat you would see is the Aerosoft one with no combat environment (TackPack is not a fix for that).

 

Yes, there are no competitors, which is why it's all the more important to voice concerns in a (hopefully) constructive manner. It's not about complaining.

 

And as a community simply not buying will accomplish nothing other than finishing off devs completely; that's hardly a sensible option.

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Yes, there are no competitors, which is why it's all the more important to voice concerns in a (hopefully) constructive manner. It's not about complaining.

 

And as a community simply not buying will accomplish nothing other than finishing off devs completely; that's hardly a sensible option.

 

This is the quintessential problem with DCS. And really from what I have seen in my short time here, Heatblur seems to be one of the better Dev teams in terms of communicating and being responsive to the community.

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not to mention the poor FSX / P3D flight model limitations.

 

How on earth can a simulator that totally lacks a flight model can have limitations to it? I mean it's 2019 already and they're still running off of tables like Aces did in 1993. And high AoA behaviour is debatable at best... dealwithit.png

 

I can still remember how Harriers were modelled in there... instead of thrust vectoring they technically had flaps with drag close to ∞ and lift just as much as needed to make that thing hover... but don't try to go backwards or sideways rdlaugh.png

 

And I've yet to see FSX to run at more than 20 fps even on low-medium settings... I guess that engine just isn't made to perform at all twilightsmile.png

 

I've had 5 new graphics cards and 3 new CPUs since FSX has been released - with no performance change at all... tells everything dealwithit.png

 

But well, even RAZBAM who're called the "that's good enough company" by some guys here are running their early access far better than Microsoft does with Windows 10 (I wonder if they'll ever manage to get WU alone hassle free, probably never...) rainbowdashwink.png

 

And if there's one 3rd party member you can buy modules of completely blindly, it's Heatblur which kinda makes the whole discussion in this very place rather pointless ajmug.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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But well, even RAZBAM who're called the "that's good enough company" by some guys here

 

LOL... Haven't heard em called that but it seems "not inaccurate". Maybe they can simulate a land rover next...

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