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TPOD & IRMVB -- what works?


Captain Orso

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So... frustrating :cry:

 

Once I've acquired a target in the TV TDC (Target Designation Caret), uncaged an IRMV, locked on in the IRMV's IR-Targeting, fired the IRMV, and destroyed the target, I want to go back to the TPOD to search for the next target.

 

The problem is, when I return to the TPOD by pressing the SSS (Sensor Select Switch) AFT, the TDC is zoomed in so far that it is impossible to find a second target.

 

The only thing that appears to possibly be a solution is to click on FOV in the right MPCD, but that does nothing.

 

What am I supposed to do from here?

 

I know that when I start the TPOD the first time, if before clicking STBY, I click TDC to underline it, and when I click then click STBY I get a TV display with lots of neat things like Zoom buttons, and AR/TP (which doesn't work, although it is demonstrated in RedKite's YT video '

' that it used to :mad: ), but there is no TDC. To get the TDC I have to press SSS-AFT, but then all the neat buttons are gone, and I can't get them back... ever :mad: .

 

What do I need to do to bet this thing working?

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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I'll have a go, since it works for me on latest OB.

 

I'm a bit confused when you say TV, do you mean the ARBS TV image, or the image from the targeting pod?

 

What works for me is:

 

TGP on right MPCD

Stores on left.

TDC underlined

Find target (Zoom buttons and wide/narrow buttons should work on TGP screen)

Uncage maverick

Maverick will be pointing at the area under the TGP cross hairs.

SSS forward to change control from INS to IRMAV

Lock target with maverick when in range

Fire

Control passes back to the TGP automatically

 

Repeat

 

Any use?

 

Edit: reading your post again. If you are in TDC mode, then SSS aft will put in you LST I believe. To use the SSS to control the TGP, you have to be in HTS mode.


Edited by Mumby
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Thanks for your reply!

 

I'll have a go, since it works for me on latest OB.

 

I'm a bit confused when you say TV, do you mean the ARBS TV image, or the image from the targeting pod?

 

AFAIK ARBS (Angle Rate Bombing System) only has to do with targeting for bombs; ie CCIP & CCRP.

 

What works for me is:

 

TGP on right MPCD

Stores on left.

TDC underlined

Find target (Zoom buttons and wide/narrow buttons should work on TGP screen)

Uncage maverick

Maverick will be pointing at the area under the TGP cross hairs.

SSS forward to change control from INS to IRMAV

 

From my understanding, pressing SSS-FWD switches the TDC (Target Designator Control) to the FLIR on the IRMV. So instead of moving the TV caret, you move the IR-pointer with TDC.

 

Lock target with maverick when in range

Fire

Control passes back to the TGP automatically

 

Repeat

 

Any use?

 

Edit: reading your post again. If you are in TDC mode, then SSS aft will put in you LST I believe. To use the SSS to control the TGP, you have to be in HTS mode.

 

I think you're right, that after firing the IRMV the TDC passes back to the TPOD, and since we've changed the SSS to IR (SSS-FWD), we have to press SSS-AFT 2x to get back to the TV (CCD) mode. But when you do this, there is no more Zoom function, FOV does not work, AR/TP is not available, and all of this makes it very difficult to search for a new target.

 

I want to go back to the TDC display, where unfortunately the TDC caret doesn't work, where I have more freedom of settings. But I cannot. It seems as if I'd have to land and shut everything down to restart the system to be able to do this, which makes the AV-8B about as useful as a musket in a MG-fight :mad:

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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I want to go back to the TDC display, where unfortunately the TDC caret doesn't work, where I have more freedom of settings. But I cannot.

 

 

Just to clarify: Do you want to go back to the TPOD view or the nose-mounted TV camera view?

 

 

The nose mounted camera needs 2x SSS-AFT as you said, but the TPOD view gets the TDC back as soon as you've fired (or the IMRV lost track, for example when you overfly the target; in other words when the left display goes back to Stores)

 

 

 

 

I just did this, and it worked:

 

 

* enable TPOD on right display, disable STDBY there

* slew and uncage

* SSS-FWD (TDC now in left display and IRMV mode)

 

* lock

* rifle

* TDC returns back to right display in TPOD mode

* slew, zoom, lock as required again etc etc

 

 

 

And for nose-mounted TV (doesn't need TPOD on aircraft)

 

 

* twice SSS-AFT (TDC on left display, TV mode)

* slew and uncage

* SSS-FWD (TDC now left, IRMV mode)

* lock

* rifle

* 2x SSS-AFT to get back to TV mode on right display

* rinse and repeat

 

 

This is in the latest release version. I don't have Open Beta installed.

Apologies if the terminology isn't accurate, still learning. ;)

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8<

 

I'm a bit confused when you say TV, do you mean the ARBS TV image, or the image from the targeting pod?

 

8<

 

*ugh* you are correct, the ARBS does have a TV camera.

 

But when going to the right MPCD and pressing TPOD, and then 2x SSS-AFT, I don't know why anything but the TPOD's CCD (TV) would be displayed.

 

Besides, while tracking a target by circling it I have about 120° FOV to either side (about 240° altogether), and often see a wing dip into the FOV, and I highly doubt the ARBS has more than about 45° straight ahead and could never see a wing...

 

 

 

 

 

other than on one of my terrible landings :D

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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If you provide a track this will be easier:

 

Not sure if I follow the problem. Humor me a second.

- Ok You just fire a AGM-65G (IRMV), the IRMV was on the Left Multi Purpose Color Display (MPCD) and the Targeting Pod (TGP) was on the right MPCD.

- Now, You pull up and away from the target, you want to find a second target with the targeting pod.

 

What mode where you using on the targeting pod to find the target TGP Hotas mode (HTS) or TDC ?

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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If you provide a track this will be easier:

 

Not sure if I follow the problem. Humor me a second.

- Ok You just fire a AGM-65G (IRMV), the IRMV was on the Left Multi Purpose Color Display (MPCD) and the Targeting Pod (TGP) was on the right MPCD.

- Now, You pull up and away from the target, you want to find a second target with the targeting pod.

 

What mode where you using on the targeting pod to find the target TGP Hotas mode (HTS) or TDC ?

 

I'm not pulling away to circle around and start a second approach, I'm trying to target a second vehicle on the same approach.

 

But I'm also doing some testing & training with my aircraft landed on top of a tall apartment building :noexpression: ...... okay, I actually spawn there, because I suck at VL :D

 

I've seen some references to HTS mode, and the last I read was that it isn't implemented yet, but then again, I don't know don't know what HTS mode is, so.... :huh:

 

EDIT: I'll have to see about a track.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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I think it will be best to wait for a track, we can easily see what is happening without playing 20 questions.

 

Trying to get multiple targets in one pass is already putting you in a disadvantage, there is a reason this is not done in RL.

 

If you are on the ground everything works differently and the way you describe it is making more confusing.

 

Knowing all the TGP modes, to me, is essential. Specially since for us in DCS is bit harder to switch everything on the MPCD. In RL, a pilot can just reach forward and press the MPCD push buttons. For us in DCS, we need to grab the mouse, get it over the push button and press, which can be challenging with track IR.

I use HTS mode more that anything and it helps. You can see also, many videos of the TGP on the AV8B use this mode.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I was trying to make a track. I honestly has so much trouble trying to get onto target as I wanted to demonstrate I wouldn't want to post it because you'd have to watch for 20 minutes until I got to what I wanted to show, and then how would I be able to point it out?

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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TPOD & IRMVB -- what works?

 

Agree a track would be useful, but in the mean time part of the problem is the nomenclature. For example, keep in mind that the TDC is a switch on the throttle, not a display, not a sensor, not an image on the MFCDs, just a switch on the throttle that goes up, down, left and right, and can be pressed like a button. The SSS and some MFCD buttons change which sensor the TDC is controlling i.e. TV or IRMAV or INS or Target Pod.

 

The TV and the target pod are not the same thing, but they can both be used to select a target which the IRMAV will the slew to when uncaged. The TV is in the nose of the jet, the target pod is... well.. the pod! There is also the FLIR above the nose of the jet, but that is for navigation only, not targetting, and frankly isn't much use until the FLIR rendering is improved.

 

SSS is only controlling the target pod when the pod is in HTS mode (which by the way is now implemented to some degree, although I rarely use it). Check out page 110 of the manual in

 

Mods\aircraft\AV8BNA\Doc

 

Basically if you want to use the target pod forget about the SSS (edit: except for SSS forward to switch between INS/IRMV) unless you are in HTS mode. In TDC or TDC mode the SSS will only take you back to the LST or TV (the TV in the nose, not the targeting pod). In TDC orTDC just use the TDC switch on the throttle and the MFCD buttons.

 

My impression is that you are getting confused between the TV and the target pod image. They are not the same. The target pod has CCD or FLIR modes, if it says TV, it isn't the target pod.


Edited by Mumby
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I was trying to make a track. I honestly has so much trouble trying to get onto target as I wanted to demonstrate I wouldn't want to post it because you'd have to watch for 20 minutes until I got to what I wanted to show, and then how would I be able to point it out?

 

I agree with Mumby, It sounds like you could be getting the screen and terminology mix up. That is why I was hoping to see the problem whit a track.

 

My suggestion is to practice locking target with DMT TV first, once you get all of the different way to do that with all the different switches, try DMT and AGM-65. Once you can switch between those two easily, then introduce the TGP and DMT, and finally you can try all three (DMT, AGM-65 and TGP)

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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  • 3 weeks later...

So, I've figured this out, and I'm kind of disappointed that no one actually caught this, but the thread title actually say it all already -"TPOD & IRMV"- because the TPOD has about as much to do with IRMV as an umbrella with a microwave oven.

 

To target an IRMV with TV, you use 2x SSS-AFT (Sensor Selector Switch - AFT) to put up the ARBS-TV on the right MPCD from where you can use the TDC to slew the box onto target, before uncaging a missile and then salving it to TDC with SSS-FOR. Whether the TPOD is mounted or not plays absolutely no role at all.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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So, I've figured this out, and I'm kind of disappointed that no one actually caught this, but the thread title actually say it all already -"TPOD & IRMV"- because the TPOD has about as much to do with IRMV as an umbrella with a microwave oven.

 

To target an IRMV with TV, you use 2x SSS-AFT (Sensor Selector Switch - AFT) to put up the ARBS-TV on the right MPCD from where you can use the TDC to slew the box onto target, before uncaging a missile and then salving it to TDC with SSS-FOR. Whether the TPOD is mounted or not plays absolutely no role at all.

 

 

 

 

Thought my answer covered that, but maybe it wasn't clear enough or my terminology misleading :P

Great that you got it working in any case ;)

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What bugged me from the beginning, and actually still bugs me, is that the FOV on ARBS-TV does nothing.

 

What I wanted to be able to do is approach several targets, get one lined up with ARBS-TV, Uncage, FLIR, TDC-Slew (if necessary), Rifle, then return to ARBS-TV to select the next target, blablabla, Rifle, all in one pass.

 

The problems is that ARBS-TV is so highly zoomed in --and FOV does not work-- it's nearly impossible to select a second target, unless they are all lined up on a road, like ducks in a shooting gallery.

 

With a lot of practice --and some luck-- you can .. Rifle, Uncage, FLIR, TDC, Rifle, Uncage... , but the screwy TDC-Slew is messing with that so... :mad:

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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I’m a little late to this party and fairly new to the Harrier, but everything I have seen says that the DMT-TV is a fixed 6x zoom, with no pilot options there. The WIDE/NAR on the DMT only relates to the LST. Although, that is based on the pocket guide, which has some things wrong, haha.

 

Also the TGPD works just fine with IRMAVs. I just loaded up a quick “3 tanks in the desert” type mission, turned off the DMT, slewed the TGPD over the first tank in TDC, uncaged the first mav, selected it, designated, fired, uncaged, selected mav, slewed over 2nd tank, designated, fired, repeated for the 3rd, all in one pass.


Edited by tom_19d
Added paragraph about targeting pod

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I’m a little late to this party and fairly new to the Harrier, but everything I have seen says that the DMT-TV is a fixed 6x zoom, with no pilot options there. The WIDE/NAR on the DMT only relates to the LST. Although, that is based on the pocket guide, which has some things wrong, haha.
This is right

 

You can use the TPOD to create and modify INS points of interest. So it can be used to Target the IRMAV. I do it Everytime. Just think of the TPOD as an upgraded DMT

 

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You can use the TPOD to create and modify INS points of interest.

 

Thanks shadow, I was trying this and amending my reply above as you were posting, you are correct, it works slick.

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What is TGPD?

 

 

How do I get the TPOD to track a moving target, like the DMT-TV is supposed to do (and actually used to do :mad: )?

 

That's why I'm trying to get this to work through the DMT-TV sensor. BC I'm hoping that one day it finally gets fixed.

 

 

I'll have to try the TPOD's TV mode, if I can get it to slave over the the IRMV, but even if it will work, will it track a moving target?

 

So I can create POI's in INS mode? I'm almost afraid to ask, how? :huh:

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What is TGPD?

 

 

 

 

 

How do I get the TPOD to track a moving target, like the DMT-TV is supposed to do (and actually used to do :mad: )?

 

 

 

That's why I'm trying to get this to work through the DMT-TV sensor. BC I'm hoping that one day it finally gets fixed.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll have to try the TPOD's TV mode, if I can get it to slave over the the IRMV, but even if it will work, will it track a moving target?

 

 

 

So I can create POI's in INS mode? I'm almost afraid to ask, how? :huh:

 

Nothing is tracking moving targets until the bug is fixed.

 

The Maverick will track moving targets, but your jet won't

 

Yeah, just press the TDC depress in INS mode. You'll get the diamond on that spot.

 

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What is TGPD?

 

 

Sorry I wasn't perfectly precise, I meant TPOD. I'll work on my acronyms. My targeting pod tracks moving targets.

 

-select your TPOD, take it out of standby, select TDC so it is underlined

-slew the TPOD so it is over your target, no need to designate, just push the AR/PT OSB and it will start a point track of the target. You might have to wiggle the slew around a bit but it will grab, I have been getting moving T72s around 10 NM

-uncage mav

-SSS forward until IRMV is the selected sensor

-TDC depress to designate (not sure if it is my imagination but I have been waiting until around 6NM on the moving targets, I was having a harder time getting it to lock at the usual ~8NM)

-Rifle

 

Track and screenshot attached. I have viewed the track 4 times, 1 of the times it had the usual DCS desync issue and never showed the moving point track. If you can't get it to display correctly with a few tries I captured with FRAPs as well but I would rather not upload that if I don't have to. It does work though.

 

 

Latest OB by the way if I didn't say so.

 

 

EDIT: Just was looking at Razbam's bug tracker, I noticed the "point mode doesn't work on cold start" bug, I'm guessing that was the one Shadow was referring to. Example given above was from an airborne start.

Screen_190109_091333.thumb.png.189f9ab801fed79a0d9c5f8fcd036c4a.png

harrier tpod + irmavs moving target.trk

Screen_190109_091056.thumb.png.a24e41a30f2f1313d4470548bd85e41a.png


Edited by tom_19d
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My targeting pod tracks moving targets.

AFAIK, the TGP point track only works for a hot started aircraft i.e. Air Spawn, Hot Parking, etc.

 

It's reported as a bug for cold ramp starts, etc.

 

It's been reported as being on Razbam's bug tracker and under test but there's been no dev feedback that it's fixed.

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It's been reported as being on Razbam's bug tracker and under test but there's been no dev feedback that it's fixed.

 

 

Hence my edit in post 20 :) New to the Harrier, found that page after posting when I was looking for the bug Shadow was referencing.

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HaHa!! It works!! :D Kind of... :noexpression:

 

I did testing with an AV-8B starting hot on top of a building so that I wouldn't have to contend with flying and my FOV leaving my target area.

 

The first thing I noted was that you cannot choose AR/PT(!!). When not pointing at a vehicle, you automatically have AR/PT, and when a vehicle is detected, it automatically changes to AR/PT. Whether this is the way it is supposed to work, I haven't read up on yet, but I don't think so.

 

So I found my target and locked on --automatically--

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=201792&stc=1&d=1547120485

 

 

.. Uncaged an IRMV, SSS-FWD to slave TDC to the IRMV and the IRMV cross hairs are way off. Compared to the previous TPOD-TV image. I mean the TPOD is a few feet away from the uncaged IRMV, is that actually the issue here?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=201793&stc=1&d=1547120485

 

 

After finally getting the IRMV cross hairs to lock onto the target (TDC-Slew is sooo f'ed up right now :cry_2: ), which are not even actually over the target... (*GAAAAAH*!! :cry: Please, RAZBAM, give fixing these TPOD/TDC-Slew issues high priority, bc they break so many things down the line. Thank you.)...

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=201794&stc=1&d=1547121844

 

 

 

... I noted that slewing the IRMV also slews TPOD-TV in parallel. Why? Is this the way it's supposed to work? I guess I'll have to crack open the real manual again *sigh*.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=201795&stc=1&d=1547121844

 

 

So, and last issue/question, if it takes too long to get the IRMV to lock on its target, the MPCD - TPOD DDI jumps to this(!!).

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=201796&stc=1&d=1547121914

 

 

I don't know exactly what page this is, but is there any direct way to get back to the TPOD without having to navigate back through he main menu? That would be useful.

1357961193_TPODIRMVTargeting01.jpg.2d020a6cab29d956f5cb4e13b755018c.jpg

618989653_TPODIRMVTargeting02.jpg.efbfc0174e77e822c09b4f07182f60f9.jpg

725279360_TPODIRMVTargeting03.jpg.de8b7f2cb2cf18116cc26d2636a53a9e.jpg

960555881_TPODIRMVTargeting04.jpg.91542e0fbc6109ef4dc36556995ca0fa.jpg

1086799252_TPODIRMVTargeting05.jpg.4ee2cbcdd1fed0d2ec848b77cd49fee1.jpg

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

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System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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