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DCS: F-16CM Block 50 by EDSA Discussion Thread


NineLine

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Lets talk About DCS F-16, does anyone have F110-GE-129 experience? How different it is from GE-100 during start for example?

Here is the -100 start ( no operational checks, just the engine start portion)

Cockpit prep

1) Verify throttle trigger is not sticking and throttle can move freely through entire range with no interference or binding.

2) Verify Main power off

3) Verify Fuel master to master (guard down)

4) Eng Feed to Norm

5) Eng Cont to pri

6) AB reset/Eng Data norm

7) JFS off

8 ) Trottle off

9) FLCS switch to Norm

 

Engine start prep

1) Main PWR switch to main power

Look for:

--Engine, Hyd/oil, STBY gen, main gen and sec light on. JFS run light out

2) brake selector to parking brake

3) Hot mic switch to hot mic

4) CNI to back up

5) squelch on

6) mode switch to manual (radios)

7) set freq on radio

8 ) COM 1 mid range

9) Function switch to main

10) lighting as require

11) Air source norm

12) ext lighting as require

13) on icing condition Engine anti-ice to on.

 

Engine start

1) lower canopy

- Do not run above 85% without restrain

- Use brake above idle

- If JFS does not start within 30 sec, JFS switch to off

-- wait at least 1 minute prior to reattempting JFS start

-- Motoring JFS for grater than 1 minute and not to exceed 4 minute require 20 minutes of cooling for each minute of motoring. However, normal engine start only need 5 minutes of cooling

-- Motoring JFS in 1 hour is limited to 10 consecutive motor runs 1 minute or less provided 5 minute cooling between motoring

-- JFS switch does not automatically return to off at 54% Engine RPM, position to off to prevent damage

- Maximum FTIT during start is 935C

- Sec light shall go out around 20% eng RPM

- No oil pressure indication by idle shut down engine

- Engine light off is indicated by vibration, increase in RPM followed by rise in FTIT

- If no light off within 10 seconds of throttle to idle, throttle to off and continue motoring for 20 seconds (if start 1 was use) or one minute (if start two).

- Hyd/oil light goes out by 20psid, shall not go out prior to 15% eng RPM. If on at idle, advance throttle to 80% to turn light out

- Oil pressure fluctuates 5psid + or -

- During cold day, oil pressure may peg for 2 minutes

2) JFS start 2

- JFS run light on within 30 second, RPM should start moving after that

-- If STBY Gen light does not go out, shut down engine

-- Main gen light does not go out 5 to 10 seconds after STBY gen light, shut down engine

-- Above 90F ambient temp, advance throttle at max motor RPM

3) throttle to idle at 20% Eng RPM

- FTIT rises within 10 seconds

- JFS out by 54%

- STBy gen light by 58%

- Engine light out by 60%

- Main gen light out 5 to 10 seconds after STBy gen light

- Eng Oil pressure by idle

- Hyd/oil pressure light out

Without any checks, and not mentioning Automatic accelerations (Auto accel), over speeds, stagnation, engine stalls, hung starts, hot starts or anticipated hot starts.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Lets talk About DCS F-16, does anyone have F110-GE-129 experience? How different it is from GE-100 during start for example?

Here is the -100 start ( no operational checks, just the engine start portion)

 

Why is JFS position 2 used for starting I’ve always wondered?

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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Why is JFS position 2 used for starting I’ve always wondered?

 

Short answer: Start 2 not always used. Pilot like to use it but I started the jet on Start one, specially when doing maintenance in case it does not start the first time.

 

Long answer

There are two JFS/Brake accumulator (with a 200 in³ capacity). Moving the the start switch to 1 will use one of the accumulators. Start 2 will use both. Start 2 in only require OAT between -25°F (-32°C) and 20°F (-6°C) or OAT above 100°F (38°C).

 

By using Start two, you give the JFS more time to start. How does it do that?

Using start 2 allows the Engine Starting System Controller (ESSC) or the Digital Engine Starting System Controller (DESSC) to use both accumulator to spin the Hydraulic Start Motor (HSM, this is used to spin the JFS to starting speed). Start 2 will have a larger and longer flow of hydraulic fluid to the HSM, giving more time for the JFS to start.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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This is good guys, any more question? I might not know the answer but some one here might.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Why is JFS position 2 used for starting I’ve always wondered?

 

On the Vipers here in Norway, Start 2 was and to my knowledge still is used to this day, every time, winter as summer. It usually carries less risk of a mis-start that way, but also more risk of a Crewchief-and-Assistant workout-session.

 

Having to use the T-handle to repressurize the accumulators to 3000psi sucks MASSIVE amounts of balls, even more so when you have the fun combo of a mis-start on an RS15 scramble-launch. Been there, done that, still remember the noodlearms-feeling!

Regards

Fjordmonkey

Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

 

I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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Short answer: Start 2 not always used. Pilot like to use it but I started the jet on Start one, specially when doing maintenance in case it does not start the first time.

 

Long answer

There are two JFS/Brake accumulator (with a 200 in³ capacity). Moving the the start switch to 1 will use one of the accumulators. Start 2 will use both. Start 2 in only require OAT between -25°F (-32°C) and 20°F (-6°C) or OAT above 100°F (38°C).

 

By using Start two, you give the JFS more time to start. How does it do that?

Using start 2 allows the Engine Starting System Controller (ESSC) or the Digital Engine Starting System Controller (DESSC) to use both accumulator to spin the Hydraulic Start Motor (HSM, this is used to spin the JFS to starting speed). Start 2 will have a larger and longer flow of hydraulic fluid to the HSM, giving more time for the JFS to start.

 

On the Vipers here in Norway, Start 2 was and to my knowledge still is used to this day, every time, winter as summer. It usually carries less risk of a mis-start that way, but also more risk of a Crewchief-and-Assistant workout-session.

 

Having to use the T-handle to repressurize the accumulators to 3000psi sucks MASSIVE amounts of balls, even more so when you have the fun combo of a mis-start on an RS15 scramble-launch. Been there, done that, still remember the noodlearms-feeling!

 

Very interesting! Can JFS be bypassed, using a compressor, to crank the engine manually like the hornets APU can be? Or do ground air starts have to work through the accumulator as well as self starts?

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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Very interesting! Can JFS be bypassed, using a compressor, to crank the engine manually like the hornets APU can be?

 

From what I remember: No. There's a receptable for pressurized air on the left-hand side of the strake on the Viper, but as far as I know it's only used for cooling-air while running the electronics on the ground with the engine and thus also the ECS-system off. It's fairly close to the intake, which is a quick way to die if you get too close to it.

 

Or do ground air starts have to work through the accumulator as well as self starts?

 

Air-starts also use the accumulator, yes. It's the first thing that's pressurized once the hydraulics comes online after engine start, if memory serves me.

 

On cold days it's not unheard of to have to give the T-handle a few hundred pumps in order to get the pressure up for start.

 

The accumulator-bottles can be seen in this pic:

070613-F-6859X-002.JPG

 

Here's another view, with the gauges in the lower right of the image. JFS should be the heat-mat clad lump on the left, and the grey lump on the right should be the main 40/60kVa AC Generator. The view is taken from the rear towards the front, with the engine out. :

afo.jpg?m=1371914874

Regards

Fjordmonkey

Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

 

I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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So of course, I assume, if it fails your gonna be aborting..?

Yes

 

 

 

And what other functions does the JFS have?

Just starting the engine. Pilots do started in the air in some emergencies but if the JFS fails to start you just used your emergency braking.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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To me this is fun. Talking about the F-16. Bring on the questions guys. Worst it could happen we don't know the answer. Hopefully more people will join the conversation.

 

Shadow,

Thanks. Talking about a mess, we where working on a B system pump ( one of the many TCTO) an one of the guys forgot to dump the pressure from the accumulator before disconnecting some of the lines. So while working he lean on the dump valve and got cover from head to toes (literary) on hydraulic fluid. Thankfully he did not hydraulic fluid skin injection, that would have been very bad.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Here is my "did you know" for the day.

 

The primary means of fuel transfer is not by boost pump pressure, but it is by siphon.

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Thank Panther, always good to hear form one of the few of us still working on the F-16

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Thank Panther, always good to hear form one of the few of us still working on the F-16

 

:thumbup:

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Panther,

If we get trap fuel on the external wing tanks, (for example if we are on AB to long and the internal wing tanks empty before the externals) can we get the fuel out of the external tanks or will the fuel stay trap?

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Yes you may get the fuel out, but not guaranteed:

 

Minimize Fuel Flow -- reduce Throttle

Air Refuel Switch -- Confirm CLOSE

Air source knob -- Confirm in NORM or DUMP

TEMP knob - MAN and adjust for conform

-This will increase the available ECS air pressure available for Externals

Tank Inerting switch to Tank Inerting (on combat loaded airframes, this will blow the HALON bottle.)

EXT FUEL Trans switch to Wings First

ENG feed is NORM

Stick - perform +/- 2G oscillations

Open Aerial refueling door for 1 second and then close (if at step 2 the door was discovered open, skip this step.)

Monitor external fuel tank quantity, it can vary on the amount of time it can take to correct the imbalance / trapped fuel. 1-3 minutes if a full centerline, around 12 minutes or greater for three external configurations.

 

If the trapped fuel is discovered with Reservoir tank is less than full or Fuel Low Lights is on, sufficient external fuel transfer is unlikely to correct the malfunction. The remaining fuselage fuel is the only usable fuel, and should land immediately.

 

Last note, if trapped fuel occurred after inflight refueling, descend below the freezing to unfreeze the valves (unlikely a scenario for DCS) but it's common in the real Viper.

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thanks

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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That isnt stated directly. it would at best be your interpretation:

 

"1.16 Posting images, file links, and file sharing links of military aircraft documents newer than 1980 is strictly prohibited on our forums. Such posts will be removed."

 

Answering said question would not ( and did not) break that rule. Besides the question in mind had nothing to do with sort of Norwegian F16's you worked on.

 

See how the question was answered without any drama by another user( FyI it information dervived in various open source defense articles) Let the moderators make thier own decisions on what violates rules or not instead of attempting to stonewall discussions before they even begin.

 

1.16 applies to ALL information about or pertaining to an airframe or its systems that may be classified. And even if it didn't, Norwegian law and the agreement I had to sign DOES prohibit me talking about certain aircraft features on the RNorAF Vipers, even after me being out of the service for 19 years.

 

Just like it is for anyone that has or currently are serving on military aircraft. There's things we're not allowed to talk about, that we can be prosecuted for and that quite happily will harm ED or third-party devs' possibilities of getting the license needed for the module.

 

You might think that my post is a cop-out. That's all on you. I know the oaths I've taken, and I hold myself to them.

I mean, is the U.S. Air Force equipped with APG-68V9? ED chose APG-68V5, which might build a better V9?Because this is the F-16 of 2007.

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I mean, is the U.S. Air Force equipped with APG-68V9

 

I don't think so, but who cares? The -V5 is historically accurate for our Viper, and has the advantage of plentiful available information to enable accurate modelling.

 

Surely that's all that matters here?

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Is F-16's positive pressure oxygen breathing system goung to be modeled and influence pulot's G tolerance?

Cheers

 

AFAIK, Was not used until around 2010 and USAF stop using it around 2012. My guess not since they plan a 2007 version. IIRC, the system was called combat Edge.


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I got that wrong PBG and the g vest ( combat edge) are two different things.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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Is it real dcs module or a place holder?

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Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60

 

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