M-2000C Mid-life Overhaul

[viper2097]

Wasn't the triangle not already there since the last patch?

Or do you mean that a radar & ir lock is now shown with a triangle, instead of a square?

[jojo]

On my screen, I just hit target with 530 switched to MAG, then slaved MAG to radar: you see the result.

[viper2097]

Ok, so summarized:

 

Before that update:

Mag lock -> Triangle

Radar lock -> Square

Mag slaved to radar lock -> Square

 

After that uodate:

Mag lock -> Triangle

Radar lock -> Square

Mag slaved to radar lock -> Triangle

 

So the behavior after the update is the correct one?

[jojo]

Ok, so summarized:

 

Before that update:

Mag lock -> Triangle

Radar lock -> Square

Mag slaved to radar lock -> Square

 

After that uodate:

Mag lock -> Triangle

Radar lock -> Square

Mag slaved to radar lock -> Triangle

 

So the behavior after the update is the correct one?

 

No:

 

MAG = circle

Radar = square

MAG + radar = triangle.

 

Indeed we have that in game now.

[Steph21]

We already had that behaviour in the last Open Beta version (still have it on the current Stable branch)

From what i understood, in this last Open Beta they have just resized the Triangle to match the size of the square. Indeed Triangle Symbol was way bigger than the Square Symbol in the last update

 

Haven't checked yet though.

 

We just miss the Radar slave on Magic feature now

Edited October 4, 2019 by Steph21

[jojo]

Ok, due to bugs, I didn't played much with last update. I still had square + triangle in mind.

 

 

For reference picture with triangle.

Edited October 4, 2019 by jojo

[schroedi]

Will the manual be updated again when the Mid-life Overhual is done?

[jojo]

Will the manual be updated again when the Mid-life Overhual is done?

 

 

Yep, Baltic Dragon talked about it (I don't remember which channel though :D).

So yes it's painful to learn on the job, but it's difficult to write the manual before the module is done for good.

Another-well-regarded-module published the manual before release and I was very excited by some of the missile feature.

When the module was released it happened that the features couldn't be replicated for now in DCS. So the manual is not accurate about the game.

[=DECOY=]

yep the manual will be updated :)

[frosen]

yep the manual will be updated :)

 

Good stuff! Learning the systems properly through the manual is half the fun. :yes:

 

I'm lurking here since months and I think I will hit the purchase button as soon as the cockpit texture is released.

[Airogue]

was anything updated yesterday with the 16 release?

 

It seemed like my radar was flickering, targets on and off and on and off again. That didn't happen before the update.

[noxyd]

Pretty much all radar issues where fixed with yesterday’s update.

I didn’t have the time to test it all, but it seemed way better.

 

On a side note, I tried the F16C which is great, but it felt nowhere near our Mirage in terms of flying quality and maneuverability!

[SmokeFan]

Any idea when the texture update and new missiles are coming?

[ZHeN]

What New missiles?

[viper2097]

On a side note, I tried the F16C which is great, but it felt nowhere near our Mirage in terms of flying quality and maneuverability!

 

You feel really so? Especially in flying quality, the F-16 feels for me like a real FBW jet should feel. The Mirage feels for me very synthetic and not really alife.

[noxyd]

Well, to me FBW does not have a specific « should feel », as there are thousands of ways to program FBW computers, from very little to very much “intrusive”.

Airbus vs Boeing “philosophies” are quite different on that matter for instance.

Totally agree that the Mirage feels more synthetic, but the result is way better nose authority at low speed for instance, as well as being able to recover from a stall within seconds.

I put the F16 in a flat spin at 0kts at 20,000ft, couldn’t do that with my Mirage !

It’s a different wing of course but I’m sure you see my point.

Edited October 5, 2019 by noxyd

[jojo]

Well, to me FBW does not have a specific « should feel », as there are thousands of ways to program FBW computers, from very little to very much “intrusive”.

Airbus vs Boeing “philosophies” are quite different on that matter for instance.

Totally agree that the Mirage feels more synthetic, but the result is way better nose authority at low speed for instance, as well as being able to recover from a stall within seconds.

I put the F16 in a flat spin at 0kts at 20,000ft, couldn’t do that with my Mirage !

It’s a different wing of course but I’m sure you see my point.

 

The F-16 is more "aft balanced" than Mirage 2000.

 

Mirage 2000 is kind of neutral balanced with internal fuel and AA weapons, when you add external fuel and bombs on aft fuselage points it becomes more instable and nasty above 22° AoA.

[viper2097]

Well, to me FBW does not have a specific « should feel », as there are thousands of ways to program FBW computers, from very little to very much “intrusive”. [/Quote]

It feels for me like Razbam just not codes much "life" into their modules.

The M2K and also the Harrier just feels very synthethic and not influenced by outer factors like wind or turbulences.

The other day I landed the Harrier in a conventional landing. After trimming it on speed, it was not necessary to touch the stick again. It just flew like "glued into the air".

Same feeling for the Mirage in all kind of other flying situations. Just like "pinned" in the air. (And the Harrier isn't even FBW...)

[jojo]

The Mirage reacts to wind and turbulence, especially visible during landing.

I don't know what you expect ?

[viper2097]

We know both that we have different opinions on that, and that a discussion about "feeling" does not make any sence.

[paradox64]

If I can... I understand you both despite opposite feelings but I think critisme again M2000 are a bit severe.

I guess, you can't espect a delta wings aircraft react like a F-16 or F-18.

At very low speed ( <200kts ) you really feel the "life" you talke about !

[sylkhan]

I don't know what you expect ?

Something with better and believable feeling of flght not like (some other sim, that i can't name:))

It's very subtle, and can't be explain.

Sadly, i don't fly the mirage, mainly because of the flight model.

It's just a personnal appreciation, a personnal feeling.

Fortunately a lot of players are less demanding

Third parties will have a hard time to compete with ED/Belsimtek in the flight modeling department.

Edited October 5, 2019 by sylkhan

[noxyd]

Something with better and believable feeling of flght not like (some other sim, that i can't name:))

It's very subtle, and can't be explain.

Sadly, i don't fly the mirage, mainly because of the flight model.

It's just a personnal appreciation, a personnal feeling.

Fortunately a lot of players are less demanding

Third parties will have a hard time to compete with ED/Belsimtek in the flight modeling department.

 

The flight model that seems to prevent you from flying the Mirage is endorsed by the very air force flying the actual plane.

The FBW response might be different from your expectations, but I don't think they are necessarily far from the reality.

I don't think that I am less demanding, neither are my fellows flying the Mirage!

[jojo]

Something with better and believable feeling of flght not like (some other sim, that i can't name:))

It's very subtle, and can't be explain.

Sadly, i don't fly the mirage, mainly because of the flight model.

It's just a personnal appreciation, a personnal feeling.

Fortunately a lot of players are less demanding

Third parties will have a hard time to compete with ED/Belsimtek in the flight modeling department.

 

They are not making the same kind of aircraft at all.

Comparing Mirage 2000C of mid/ late-80' with relaxed stability and fly by wire to F-14 Tomcat fielded in the mid 70' is totally nonsense.

 

Every pilot report I read about Mirage 2000 states that you have to be careful because you FBW makes you loose a lot of "feel in the pants".

Pitch auto-trim above 300kt, rudder auto-trim, FBW on 3 axis, Mirage 2000 maximum take off weight is lower than Tomcat empty weight...

 

So yes, Mirage 2000C has very few inertia. I won't post again the solo display training HUD tape, it's available on YouTube.

 

This afternoon I did a landing and loaded "summer wind" preset weather.

I chose an airport to have crosswind, and there are turbulence.

And I had to handle the crosswind and the turbulence.

 

You don't have rudder auto-trim on F-16, and this (wrong setting without any alert) caused the crash of a Greek F-16D in Albacete. The plane crashed on the flight line, killing the crew of 2 Mirage 2000D and all ground personnel next to them.

 

Yes, the feeling is more sanitized in the M-2000C, but by all reports, it's accurate.

 

Yes Viper, we're going nowhere because you're constantly bashing the module about your feelings and thought without anything to sustain your claim.

Despite what you think, I would be happy to be proven wrong and would push if there is something to correct.

But I don't think/ feel...doesn't cut it.

 

Plus feeling in front of the computer, even in VR isn't the same as in the aircraft.

[sylkhan]

The flight model that seems to prevent you from flying the Mirage is endorsed by the very air force flying the actual plane. !

Not by me

The FBW response might be different from your expectations, but I don't think they are necessarily far from the reality.

I don't have the F-16, but the flight model need to be more or less the same (FBW) as Mirage

Then fly the DCS f-16 (if you have it) and tell me that you don't feel a difference.

I don't think that I am less demanding, neither are my fellows flying the Mirage!

If you want