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Spitfire Landing Mastered!!!!


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I have had a nightmare clipping the wings of my spitfire every landing!

 

I’m quite an experienced armchair pilot on different sims and do some real life Cessna 172 action!

 

I have been trying to master the Spit landing and have always lost it just after touchdown!!!

 

I have found that the fix is;

 

Fly by the numbers as per usual

 

After touchdown on a 3-pointer gently squeeze some brakes with the yoke pulled fully aft. I believe it’s the brakes that helps eliminate that uncontrollable yaw!!

 

This has Stressed me for sometime! Now I can enjoy my home made missions, knowing that I can actually land without wrecking my plane!!

 

 

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Braking is the most dangerous part. Dance on the rudder while braking, to keep it straight.

With practice, you can do grass field landings ;)

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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I believe someone mentioned there being no difference presently between the drag coeficients between asphalt, soil or grass in DCS World ( ? )
Assuming soil and grass are one and the same, grass has more drag than asphalt. In DCS anyways. One real pilot told me that grass was easier than sticky asphalt irl, but not what he flew. But maybe DCS has it backwards? Not sure. I haven't heard more than one voice on it.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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Don't worry, you will still mess them up every now and then - trust me.

 

:smilewink:

Don B

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I'm pretty sure British doctrine was to land with the main wheels, and let the tail wheel sink as the aircraft starts to slow.

In order to prevent the tail wheel slapping down, I perform a maneuver what I've come to call the "British Push" wherein, just as the main gear touches down, I apply a bit of forward stick. I saw a video of a pilot landing a spitfire on youtube where this was visible, although I can't remember which one. (I think it might have been the end of Guy Martin builds a Spitfire but I can't be certain)

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I'm pretty sure British doctrine was to land with the main wheels, and let the tail wheel sink as the aircraft starts to slow.

 

In order to prevent the tail wheel slapping down, I perform a maneuver what I've come to call the "British Push" wherein, just as the main gear touches down, I apply a bit of forward stick. I saw a video of a pilot landing a spitfire on youtube where this was visible, although I can't remember which one. (I think it might have been the end of Guy Martin builds a Spitfire but I can't be certain)

Instead of pushing, I trim the Spitfire so that if I release the stick, it will pitch down. Helps a lot. When I land, I just ease it into the middle.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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With all tail-draggers, when doing a two-point landing, you must "stick" your undercarriage to the ground. It's because of the position of the center of gravity, which is always behind the undercarriage. On touchdown, inertia carries the CG further, causing the tail to go down, while the undercarriage stops the wings, the fuselage takes a nose-up attitude, and --depending on how fast your descent was-- you may also experience the undercarriage bouncing, which can add to the entire airframe jumping back into the air again.

 

To prevent this, exactly on the wheels touching the ground, or a fraction of a second before --experience is the key here-- you nudge the stick forwards to stick your wheels to the ground and compensate for the inertia of the CG wanting to take the tail downward, and prevent a bounce.

 

BTW IIRC RAF pilots were supposed to do three-point landing, but, hey they're fighter pilots, the thought that looked "gay" --or what ever the term of the period was-- so they did two-point landings, and nobody bothered them with regulations.

 

These days, everybody does two-pointers, because it lessens the chance of damaging the tail-wheel on landing, and can thus save money. Besides... fighter pilots :D

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With all tail-draggers, when doing a two-point landing, you must "stick" your undercarriage to the ground. It's because of the position of the center of gravity, which is always behind the undercarriage. On touchdown, inertia carries the CG further, causing the tail to go down, while the undercarriage stops the wings, the fuselage takes a nose-up attitude, and --depending on how fast your descent was-- you may also experience the undercarriage bouncing, which can add to the entire airframe jumping back into the air again.

 

 

 

To prevent this, exactly on the wheels touching the ground, or a fraction of a second before --experience is the key here-- you nudge the stick forwards to stick your wheels to the ground and compensate for the inertia of the CG wanting to take the tail downward, and prevent a bounce.

 

 

 

BTW IIRC RAF pilots were supposed to do three-point landing, but, hey they're fighter pilots, the thought that looked "gay" --or what ever the term of the period was-- so they did two-point landings, and nobody bothered them with regulations.

 

 

 

These days, everybody does two-pointers, because it lessens the chance of damaging the tail-wheel on landing, and can thus save money. Besides... fighter pilots :D

Wheel landing is my norm. I rarely ever do a 3 point any more, mainly because if I need to go around, I can safely do so. But also it has that wow factor, to people who watch me land, and I just feel awesome doing it :) Especially on grass. The only thing tha can make the landing better, is if God Save the Queen is playing in the background.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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  • 3 months later...

I have heard much the same - but a glance at the landing section of this pretty comprehensive Air Ministry Spitfire Pilots Notes (for a MkII) does specify a 3 point landing, although it does note that the tail may remain raised for up to 100 yards on the landing roll due to air cushioning (it speculates!). This Manual is worth a read, because it seems much more detailed than later versions - even detailing how to do combat maneuvres:-

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/spitiiaii-and-iib-pdf.33734/

 

 

Just for comparison - heres the same (much reduced in detail) for a MkIX to MkXVI: https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/spitfire-xi-vx-ix-pdf.33736/

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IIRC, while pilots were supposed to do 3 point landings, but many did 2 points anyways

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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From reading those notes, I'm getting the impression that it is implying that it is better to let her ride on 2 wheels - rather than risk pulling back on the yoke before the mains were actually on the ground.

 

 

I don't actually recall seeing any contemporary RAF footage or photos showing a Spit landing on anything other than the mains. Just anecdotal of course. I'm not a pilot. I do suspect that any modern Spits moight be handled somewhat differently than back in the day. I was based a Coningsby just before I left the RAF - saw plenty of the BBMF kites, but never took a lot of notice of technique. Also worked on Chipmunks - different beasts, but still a taildragger, and they were perfectly happy rolling on mains for quite a while before settling.

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From reading those notes, I'm getting the impression that it is implying that it is better to let her ride on 2 wheels - rather than risk pulling back on the yoke before the mains were actually on the ground.

 

 

I don't actually recall seeing any contemporary RAF footage or photos showing a Spit landing on anything other than the mains. Just anecdotal of course. I'm not a pilot. I do suspect that any modern Spits moight be handled somewhat differently than back in the day. I was based a Coningsby just before I left the RAF - saw plenty of the BBMF kites, but never took a lot of notice of technique. Also worked on Chipmunks - different beasts, but still a taildragger, and they were perfectly happy rolling on mains for quite a while before settling.

Personally, in DCS, I perform 2 points as my norm, because if I mess up, it's a whole lot easier to go around, since I'm already in position to take back off. I land the Spitfire on grass a lot, and because DCS'a grass is so weirdly sticky, 3 points are a complete no-no for me.

 

There are a lot of videos of Spitfires doing 3 point landings on YouTube, though. Actually, the first result is a 3 pointer.


Edited by Magic Zach

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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From reading those notes, I'm getting the impression that it is implying that it is better to let her ride on 2 wheels - rather than risk pulling back on the yoke before the mains were actually on the ground.

 

 

I don't actually recall seeing any contemporary RAF footage or photos showing a Spit landing on anything other than the mains. Just anecdotal of course. I'm not a pilot. I do suspect that any modern Spits moight be handled somewhat differently than back in the day. I was based a Coningsby just before I left the RAF - saw plenty of the BBMF kites, but never took a lot of notice of technique. Also worked on Chipmunks - different beasts, but still a taildragger, and they were perfectly happy rolling on mains for quite a while before settling.

 

3 point landing is just safer but pilot must be carefull not to hit dround with tail wheel first. tail wheel is not too strong :P

while landing 2 point plane have plenty speed and thats not good for undercariege


Edited by grafspee

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After reading these posts today, I have been just giving a bit of forward stick on touchdown and land on the mains. The tailwheel settles nice and gently shortly after. I didn't find I had to use any greater speed.

Once the tailwheel settles, I pull back with half braking until everything settles out nicely.

It works great. Thanks guys.

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After reading these posts today, I have been just giving a bit of forward stick on touchdown and land on the mains. The tailwheel settles nice and gently shortly after. I didn't find I had to use any greater speed.

 

Once the tailwheel settles, I pull back with half braking until everything settles out nicely.

 

It works great. Thanks guys.

Nice to hear!

 

The mains grab the ground really hard, don't they? When the Mustang bounces back into the air, the Spitfire's tires grip the ground. Makes it a bit easier to wheel land, when preventing bounces.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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