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VR IMPROVEMENTS


javipamp

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I most likely have the other arguments, having things strapped to my head, it's simply something I will have being really picky with clothes to begin with, I can find all kinds of details very annoying with a lot of them, etc.

 

 

I imagine VR runs to be in sessions for myself, only when in that mode, I wouldn't use VR for anything else like desktop, etc.

 

 

It'll be like gearing up for a ski-run on top of a 3000 meter mountain, it's realism, but I would never do any kind of SWITCH and completely replace it. I really don't like to have a ton of clothes on myself in the cold winter times (when central heating can't keep up sometimes and parts of the house much coler), and to have to be in a ski-suit all day long, I can hardly imagine it right now.

 

 

Wheel's or steering wheels are still wheels, you can't go more circular than that, what are you going to replace them with, magnets and gloves? It's not a natural improvement, it's not natural evolution, it's a different type of movement/interface and it's not interchangible, so magnets instead of wheels would have something less and wouldn't do what wheels can, and I hope DCS recognizes and treats VR and monitor equally for peaceful coexistence in future.

 

It seems you haven`t tried VR to date. So your argument is based on a lack of experience of same, which never makes for a good basis for any proposition. My advice is don`t knock it until you`ve tried it, otherwise no one would experience anything outside their comfort zone. As for steering wheels, force feedback on a Logitech wheel while you are in VR is something I`m sure you would enjoy. My advice is try a VR demo in some tech shop/show and then make an informed assessment of same. You may just surprise yourself. Actually many sim racers have better lap times in VR due to better distance judgement of apex`s and braking points etc.


Edited by Zoomer
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It seems you haven`t tried VR to date. So your argument is based on a lack of experience of same, which never makes for a good basis for any proposition. My advice is don`t knock it until you`ve tried it, otherwise no one would experience anything outside their comfort zone. As for steering wheels, force feedback on a Logitech wheel while you are in VR is something I`m sure you would enjoy. My advice is try a VR demo in some tech shop/show and then make an informed assessment of same. You may just surprise yourself. Actually many sim racers have better lap times in VR due to better distance judgement of apex`s and braking points etc.

 

 

I am being extremely on the critical side of my opinions, I probably will eventually like it, just not right now.

 

I would also need a freaking proper chair, desk and probably a whole new room, with a totally new setup.

 

 

Real practical experience probably not, but when you do work with programming and follow the tech in-depth it's probably a lot more than an average gamer would imagine.

 

I have infact followed all the VR stuff (including AMD Mantle/Vulkan API) to the bone way back from the very beginning even before any kind of media circus, when John Carmack was still working at id Software, posting on MTBS3D forums and experimenting with his DIY HMD on DOOM3 BFG which was going to make it into the game eventually but got canceled by Zenimax at the time as a "worthless side project" or something, I guess JC contract wasn't strong enough, he was able to work on side projects 10% of the time I think (including a ton of other benefits (like speaking freely bypassing a lot of PR policies) other employees probably didn't get, he was afaik only and sole owner when he sold id Software to Zenimax) but not a guarantee that stuff would make it in IMO, basically they didn't want him doing anything with VR whatsoever.

 

 

The VR stuff has unfortunately swayed John Carmack away from the other KEY ingredient, Vulkan API, he was historically the guy criticizing the horrible state of PCs were in terms of efficiency vs consoles (btw for example lots if not most of Id Software games use OpenGL not DirectX), always talking how he wished he would be able to "program to the metal" on the PC, but when the AMD Mantle API began, and when that got evolved to Vulkan API, he was MIA, not a beep from him, and he infact changed his opinions for 180 degrees so he was not really interested in having another API, that was kinda weird, meh, he could have put so many good ideas in, well the expandability of Vulkan API and the openness still hopefully make this all possible, good news is that already some extensions authored by commuinity or specific GPU manufacturers have been promoted to the core/mainline Vulkan API spec.


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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I am being extremely on the critical side of my opinions, I probably will eventually like it, just not right now.

 

I would also need a freaking proper chair, desk and probably a whole new room, with a totally new setup.

 

 

Real practical experience probably not, but when you do work with programming and follow the tech in-depth it's probably a lot more than an average gamer would imagine.

 

I have infact followed all the VR stuff to the bone way back from the very beginning even before any kind of media circus, when John Carmack was still working at id Software, posting on MTBS3D forums and experimenting with his DIY HMD on DOOM3 BFG which was going to make it into the game eventually but got canceled by Zenimax at the time as a "worthless side project" or something, JC contract wasn't strong enough, he was able to work on side projects 10% of the time I think (he discolsed in some interview) but not a guarantee that stuff would make it in.

 

Nope, nothing fancy needed, you won`t see it you`ll be in a virtual cockpit. You could sit on a cardboard box if you were a lightweight. The most important thing is your pc, a good cpu & gpu. The sensors can sit on your desk in front of you. If you already have a pc powerful enough, then you have already made the lion`s share of the investment.There are plenty of good deals on the rift or other HMD`s. Likely used versions will appear when the new tech arrives. If you have to upgrade your pc, then the process can become expensive.


Edited by Zoomer
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It seems from a few comments that some believe that people don't prefer vr only because they haven't tried it.

 

I have the vive, rift, and odyssey. I still much prefer playing on my 4k 55" (low latency) TV with trackir.

 

The clarity in 2d 4k resolution overcomes the immersion in vr. And the fact that the clarity is lacking in vr (with the above named headsets) directly affects the quality of the immersion.

 

I'm looking forward though to trying a pimax 5k+ when I can get my hands on one.

 

 

 

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I currently have Vive, Vive Pro and Rift and mostly play on my 34 inch monitor main + 29 inch for MFD/helios. Having used to playing games at much higher frame rate, it's mostly the FPS that turns me off despite having recently built a high end PC system. The experience is fairly good with the Vive Pro and I don't mind the relatively crappy resolution/SDE but it still lacks sense of speed due to low FPS which is also severely gimped when joining MP server, VR Zoom is also bad with distorted image, blurry off center images when glancing is another turnoff, as well as inability to see keyboard/mouse/MFDs/button boxes/the surroundings, etc.

 

To be fair, TrackIR also has its own issues, and VR setup is ultimately cheaper and easier compared to simpit. But at the end of the day, I still find DCS more enjoyable without VR.

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It seems from a few comments that some believe that people don't prefer vr only because they haven't tried it.

 

I have the vive, rift, and odyssey. I still much prefer playing on my 4k 55" (low latency) TV with trackir.

 

The clarity in 2d 4k resolution overcomes the immersion in vr. And the fact that the clarity is lacking in vr (with the above named headsets) directly affects the quality of the immersion.

 

I'm looking forward though to trying a pimax 5k+ when I can get my hands on one.

 

 

 

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Nope. Just means there`s horses for courses and courses for horses, and don`t knock anything unless you have tried it yourself. Quiet self explanatory.

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Do you have any real world flying experience Webweaver40? It is interesting to see what is an immersion killer for one person over another.

 

 

For me, a 2D screen is a complete immersion killer. Especially true when it comes to DCS. For some, they can't get past the resolution not being 4K. For others it is SDE. Some people even complained that you have to physically look around your chair to check six.

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Still for a fair equivalent, you need at least 4 times the pixels on one eye that you have total on a monitor.

 

So a 4K +32 inch monitor will look nice, but for VR you would need 8K per eye to actually start considering VR in every property IMO. While a 16K 32-34 monitor wouldn't probably make that of a difference at that viewing distance. The closer you get the more it matters and FPS as well.

 

 

8K Per eye, now we're at ... not even 2K per eye, and let alone HDR and WCG (ex ITU Rec.2100 gamut). Certainly I'm not saying that it may not quikcly change, however HDR/WCG depend on source content, just that can take 3-4 years for the industry.


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Zoomer, My post addressed exactly what you just said. I have tried it, and I'm knocking it. Your continued lack of attention will only keep this conversation on a circular path.

 

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I think he's agreeing with you. And the comment was for the other guy who hadn't tried VR and was saying it wasn't good enough.

hsb

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Zoomer, My post addressed exactly what you just said. I have tried it, and I'm knocking it. Your continued lack of attention will only keep this conversation on a circular path.

 

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Nope. Just means there`s horses for courses and courses for horses, and don`t knock anything unless you have tried it yourself. Quiet self explanatory.

 

Yes and my reply was as above. You tried it and didn`t feel it was for you "'horses for courses" and the OP was knocking it before he even tried it. I thought as I said it was self explanatory, yet I am explaining it again.

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Still for a fair equivalent, you need at least 4 times the pixels on one eye that you have total on a monitor.

 

So a 4K +32 inch monitor will look nice, but for VR you would need 8K per eye to actually start considering VR in every property IMO. While a 16K 32-34 monitor wouldn't probably make that of a difference at that viewing distance. The closer you get the more it matters and FPS as well.

 

 

8K Per eye, now we're at ... not even 2K per eye, and let alone HDR and WCG (ex ITU Rec.2100 gamut). Certainly I'm not saying that it may not quikcly change, however HDR/WCG depend on source content, just that can take 3-4 years for the industry.

 

While I`d like a HMD that delivered 8k or even 16k per eye to arrive in the next month, I`d appreciate more acquiring the GPU and software optimization to make it even possible. Until then I`d settle for 4k per eye and proper optimization. Let`s stay in the realm of the possible here and what would be perfectly usable.


Edited by Zoomer
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While I`d like a HMD that delivered 8k or even 16k per eye to arrive in next month, I`d appreciate more acquiring the GPU and software optimization to make it even possible. Until then I`d settle for 4k per eye and proper optimization. Let`s stay in the realm of the possible here and what would be perfectly usable.

 

And I'm really hoping the work that ED is doing to optimize DCS (proven doable by Kegetys mods) and Vulkan will go long way. That and Pimax+ like improvements.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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TBH I would even be happy with Rift if we could just get DCS to look as good as the Oculus Home page does and 90FPS, anything else would be icing on the cake.:)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

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Really don't understand this thread. I have seen significant improvements since the last update to the point where I am running a solid 45fps with MSAA x4, SSAA x1.5, Anis 8x and PD 1.0 with high textures and reduced shadows. If there are more improvements to come this will be even more amazing. Thanks ED for the ongoing development!

i7 7820X OC @4.8GHz | Dual GTX 1080Ti | 32GB DDR4 3000 | Samsung 256GB SSD | Win 10 x64 | Samsung Odessey | TM Warthog | TM Pedals

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Really don't understand this thread. I have seen significant improvements since the last update to the point where I am running a solid 45fps with MSAA x4, SSAA x1.5, Anis 8x and PD 1.0 with high textures and reduced shadows. If there are more improvements to come this will be even more amazing. Thanks ED for the ongoing development!

 

 

PD 1.0 is not good...I cannot run less than 1.5 and MSAA x 2 is good enough to go along with it... but x4 would be nice! Either way there are more and more people coming to VR. I gather ED know this by now. I hope they will deliver as they most of the time do!

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TBH I would even be happy with Rift if we could just get DCS to look as good as the Oculus Home page does and 90FPS, anything else would be icing on the cake.:)

 

I think 4k per eye is possible with the current top end GPU`s 1080ti, 2080 & 2080ti if the software was a help rather than a hindrance. DLSS, VRS etc. is promising as it takes some of the load of the gpu renderers and transfers it to the AI that fill in the pixels especially in your peripheral vision. Dev`s have to be smart with this tech and help the tech do it`s job. The latest oculus connect and Michael Abrash explained the need for AI deep learning. RTX is the start of the tech and possibility of it`s use.We are still hanging on for ASW 2.0 which should be really close to inclusion.

 

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Really don't understand this thread. I have seen significant improvements since the last update to the point where I am running a solid 45fps with MSAA x4, SSAA x1.5, Anis 8x and PD 1.0 with high textures and reduced shadows. If there are more improvements to come this will be even more amazing. Thanks ED for the ongoing development!
I think this really means all improvement seen in the last month is base performance . Ie mem leak etc

Which is really promising for the actual vr improvements

 

As to the other comments about to vr or not to vr. Think perhaps they should go find another thread

Vr is here to stay . Especially for flight sim

Getting it right now is a solid business decision

 

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I simply can not fly without VR anymore. I have attempted in other sims I shall not name, and it's just not "there" for me. Sure, there's pretty pictures when using a monitor. But as has been previously stated, there's a big difference; looking at the sim, or being in the sim, and VR puts you in the sim. There is no "tilt your head this way" or click a button to look directly behind you. You're going to twist, stretch, move, hold yourself up from your seat a bit as you try to see what's back there. As far as putting the HMD on, if you can put a hat on your noggin, you can put a VR HMD on. It doesn't matter how you look in it, nobody is looking.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I got to fly the F-18 in DCS and even with the known issues in VR it is generations ahead in visual acuity. I was finally able to hit the drogue on the first attempt and had no problem holding the refuel as I could properly judge the simulated distances....I like you, can't fly without VR anymore either. It brought back so many sight memories of flying the real thing (well...not the f-18) 48 years ago. VR may still be in it's infancy, but clearly for sims like DCS, it is the future for sure.

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You are far too focused on resolution. The resolution is very usable right now.. it's just not as pretty as you would like it to be.. There is a lot more to a good VR experience than simply increasing the resolution.

 

 

absolutely....especially when you consider our eye doesn't "see" in 4k resolution....

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