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VEAO & Hawk discussion (please mind the forum rules)


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I really want to leave this thread open for you guys to discuss, but if it is going to de-evolve into name calling and insulting people for having different opinions then I am going to shut it down instead of giving people warnings or suspensions. So if you want a place to vent, then vent, just stay within the rules and be nice to each other, we all want the same things.

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Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

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First of all you won't find me complaining about any slow updates in the forum. Sometimes I complain about my tomcat not being released, but that different. You know I've been waiting all my life for that thing :D

 

I didn't expect them to refund me anything. But I thought that telling people who bought it before October 2018 'sorry guys, you are on your own' was less than optimal.

 

 

Telling us 'it's not really our fault but we feel for your loss, so we are giving you a 10$ bonus' would have made everybody happy, and shown ED in a superb light..

 

On top of that, it would have costed them nothing, because as for now, I have 30$ bonus in my account and I am totally unable to spend them, because I always buy in early access (hence no bonus applicable when discounted). And I bet that most dev supporters are in my case.

 

Anyway. No hard feelings. As soon as I saw your other posts I edited mine, and I am sorry you had to see the first version of it. I admit, at the time I was a bit pissed at your first answer :D

 

As I said, I understand the rough feelings mate :smilewink:

Most people forget that we are sitting in the same sinking boat.

 

To get clear I will never ever buy something in EA from a former Hawk dev but it would be a mess to punish ermerging devs for a mistake we have seen here.

 

BTW: If you need a RIO (who paid all positions months ago) in future combat operations I will be there to serve :thumbup:

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As I said, I understand the rough feelings mate :smilewink:

Most people forget that we are sitting in the same sinking boat.

 

To get clear I will never ever buy something in EA from a former Hawk dev but it would be a mess to punish ermerging devs for a mistake we have seen here.

 

BTW: If you need a RIO (who paid all positions months ago) in future combat operations I will be there to serve :thumbup:

 

Hahah it will be my pleasure to be your pilot or RIO as well !

 

I just cannot wait.

 

 

Let's leave it at that before we start playing beach volley, ok ? :D

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Hahah it will be my pleasure to be your pilot or RIO as well !

 

I just cannot wait.

 

 

Let's leave it at that before we start playing beach volley, ok ? :D

 

Right so, we would have to do it topless and nobody wants that :no_sad:

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If you can't tell the difference between opinion and cold hard facts then I can't help you.

 

I'm not looking for your help or your opinion.

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Firstly I do feel that ED heart was in the right place and it has done everything in their power to continue supporting the hawk. Things don't always work out for the best even if everybody has good faith, it is called life...

 

Keep in mind that software product makes most it money if the first month or two after release... so in a way, I am glad that ED wasn't burdened by an additional load of supporting Hawk and losing limited engineering and financial resources on it. And I think most of us agree that they are better spent else were...

 

to conclude if a few toxic people walk away from the community since they feel "cheated" by ED after this, I think we will just end up with a more healthy and positive community.

 

In the end, NineLine, Wags, and ED thank you for the great products and keep up the good work, we really appreciate it.


Edited by FoxAlfa

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All the people keep asking for capabilities to be modelled.... I want the limitations to be modelled.... limitations make for realistic simulation.

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a bit you realize the pig likes it.

 

Long time ago in galaxy far far away:

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@pingpong

I'm fine with looking out for customers, but I also recognise ED is a low profit margin enterprise and not so focused on being butthurt that I can't recognise the bigger picture. I'm out the Hawk as well, I am affected. And again, familiarise yourself with the updater. You do not need two installs.

 

The Hawk was available for years, now it is being discontinued. It happens. All of DCS will fall out of support someday with no further dev or bugfixes. For me that will mean being out about $1500. More if you count modules I gifted. Permanently if the servers go down and I don't take care to back it up and lose it somehow.

 

Software goes out of development. You can either maintain 'retro versions' or you can do without. That is SoP for EVERY PIECE OF SOFTWARE EVER. In this instance we're only out a very small piece of the larger package. It IS the way things. Nobody here is entitled to compensation, except MAYBE the very newest customers who got screwed. That's a small number, so it's feasible for ED to help them. It is NOT wise to even ATTEMPT to compensate the probably 1000s or 10,000s who have purchased it over many years.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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I feel cheated to be honest but really nothing can be done. ED was prepared to support the module but VEAO wanted to run and hide. So hopefully their new contracts prevent this from happening again. I won't lie I asked for my money back but it is not gonna happen. ED isn't gonna lift a finger to those who tried to support it from the beginning. It was nice to vent...Time to move forward to the upcoming new modules to fly

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你们VEAO真是给ED丢人啊,你们的HAWK就是给DCS World招黑啊,VEAO成为了ED的大笑话。小东西,facebook,youtube频道删的到时挺快。很漂亮的一架HAWK,被你们糟蹋了。为了钱是不是可以连脸都不要了。不过也好,有了前车之鉴ED修改了下政策,那么玩家是不是也要感谢你们呢,避免了不要脸的事件再次发生。VEAO牛逼(破音)

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Yeah, I don't blame ED for this. Sounds to me like they tried to save it if it was possible. It's VEAO that's taken the code people have paid for, and ran off with it. Looks like they're trying to declare bankruptcy, and then restart somewhere else. I think in the end, they just weren't up to the task of producing something of DCS quality.

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@pingpong

I'm fine with looking out for customers, but I also recognise ED is a low profit margin enterprise and not so focused on being butthurt that I can't recognise the bigger picture. I'm out the Hawk as well, I am affected. And again, familiarise yourself with the updater. You do not need two installs.

 

The Hawk was available for years, now it is being discontinued. It happens. All of DCS will fall out of support someday with no further dev or bugfixes. For me that will mean being out about $1500. More if you count modules I gifted. Permanently if the servers go down and I don't take care to back it up and lose it somehow.

 

Software goes out of development. You can either maintain 'retro versions' or you can do without. That is SoP for EVERY PIECE OF SOFTWARE EVER. In this instance we're only out a very small piece of the larger package. It IS the way things. Nobody here is entitled to compensation, except MAYBE the very newest customers who got screwed. That's a small number, so it's feasible for ED to help them. It is NOT wise to even ATTEMPT to compensate the probably 1000s or 10,000s who have purchased it over many years.

Again, nobody is really asking for money. All we're asking for is a little something in return. Like you, I HAVE all of the modules, terrains and campaigns available in shop. Ive also gifted several of the same through various air races in the former Virtual Aerobatics servers and on HeliSimmer. Ive spent a great chunk of change on all of the modules; hell I even have 3 modules I never use on the Steam version - 2 Hornets, 2 Harriers and 2 Persian Gulf maps. As much money as Ive spent towards ED, a simple gift bonus would have been nice. It would have been -VERY NICE-. But to imply we're undeserving of even that while those who have only had it for a few months is utter BS. We havent enjoyed (at least I havent anyways) this product as much as the other people on the simple fact that this aircraft never even really went past open beta. Ive followed the development of this closely since the AvioDev/VEAO debacle from a year or so back, and I saw the writing on the wall back then.

 

 

 

Go ahead and tell me that nobody saw this coming after the AvioDev debacle at least after a few months of nothing getting fixed afterwards. You cant tell me that nobody here has paid any attention to that. And if nobody here has even heard of that, then I dont know what to say because this is the end result. VEAO should have called it quits back then.

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But to imply we're undeserving of even that while those who have only had it for a few months is utter BS.

 

I don't see that implication there to be honest. VEAO screwed everyone, ED included, and now ED is trying to limit the damage.

 

Whether through reputation damage or refunds, ED is going to lose money from this. Their choice of how to handle this situation will be the one that minimises their total loss.

 

What you or I as individuals consider deserving doesn't matter.

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I don't see that implication there to be honest. VEAO screwed everyone, ED included, and now ED is trying to limit the damage.

 

Whether through reputation damage or refunds, ED is going to lose money from this. Their choice of how to handle this situation will be the one that minimises their total loss.

 

What you or I as individuals consider deserving doesn't matter.

 

As paying customers, what you or I as individuals consider deserving should absolutely matter.

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I dont think VEAO screwed anyone. I really dont, and Im not going to make that accusation because its derogatory. Ive dealt with PMan and a few others from VEAO while they were having the Red Bull races in those servers, and they offered up prizes (not just myself, but Thrustmaster and a few others) out of their own pockets and this was before the AvioDebacle. I am not saying or implying that AvioDev soured VEAOs milk and vice versa. I AM saying that after that debacle, VEAO couldnt produce anything of substance BECAUSE of what happened. I and everyone else who was privy to that conversation knows that this is exactly what happened and why it happened doesnt surprise me in the least.

 

 

 

A lot of us started asking for refunds almost immediately after that ON THE SIMPLE FACT that VEAO lost their senior engineer at a very bad time. Not sure why, not sure how and Im not asking either question either other than the fact that it happened. Thats between them and not us.That happened in closed doors and will remain that way. So yes, the writing was definitely on the wall a long time ago, and yes, most of us KNEW that this project would never get finished. You cannot be naive enough to know this as fact. That is exactly what happened and we all know it.

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Yeah, I'm kind of not surprised, but it's still a dick move.

 

@Grippen

Because as the core game code changes, it will sooner or later (possibly already) cease to work. VEAO WON'T fix it, and since they won't give ED the code they CAN'T fix it. As a result, it doesn't matter if anybody likes it or not, it WILL stop working sooner or later.

 

It's retired from DCS. However, the decent thing would have been to share their code and assets but hey declined ! I believe if VEAO shared their code ED would have true insight into how bad VEAO were in developing for DCS. Possibly unsolvable to do anything economically viable code wise. Any computer programmer worth his/her salt will tell you, it's harder to work with 'crap' code than to start from scratch. My partner will tell you that and he really knows his stuff !!

 

Mizzy

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As paying customers, what you or I as individuals consider deserving should absolutely matter.

 

When it comes to a business or service getting shuttered it doesn't. A limited exception is when people lobby in great numbers or conduct fundraisers to sustain a series or product. There is not sufficient support here for either of those options ergo 'what you or I think' absolutely doesn't matter except as academic debate, which is really all we're doing at this point.

 

The options people are asking for amount to things that are

'Impossible' 'severe financial hit' or 'moderate financial hit'. None of those are going to be feasible options from ED's standpoint. All we're really doing is rabbling to no real purpose except venting.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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你们VEAO真是给ED丢人啊,你们的HAWK就是给DCS World招黑啊,VEAO成为了ED的大笑话。小东西,facebook,youtube频道删的到时挺快。很漂亮的一架HAWK,被你们糟蹋了。为了钱是不是可以连脸都不要了。不过也好,有了前车之鉴ED修改了下政策,那么玩家是不是也要感谢你们呢,避免了不要脸的事件再次发生。VEAO牛逼(破音)

 

你可以选择在每一步中挣扎你的旅程,或者你可以接受它,认识到每一个绊倒或挫折都是一个增强你的性格,精细化你的工艺,加深你的激情的机会。 如果你让自己享受下雨,这段旅程可能会很美好!

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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Name Randall

Last name MacDonald

Address ****************

City Mississauga

Post/Zip Code ************

Country

Order

Product Discount Price Quantity Amount Status

Hawk T.1A for DCS World by VEAO Simulations (pre-sell)

**************************************

20% $31.99 1 $31.99 Delivered

 

I did this February 2, 2015.

I flew the Hawk three or four times.

I did this with a pretty good idea that I was not going to fly it because of the F-15 I was flying at the time. I did this to reward both VEAO and ED for the work. I wanted ED and third parties to continue to create great flying modules. And look! I've been flying the Harrier. As of today, I've been flying the FA-18C for several months! I like to think that my $40 bucks helped bring that about. Soon, I'll be shooting at you from a sky-splitting shape of an F-14. And, if you don't want me to shoot at you, we can do some aerobatics together in gorgeous sport planes.

 

Yes, people have become upset because of $15 bucks. ED is (or has) taking steps to prevent such mistakes from happening again. But ED is trying to make the best of it all by still offering a way of continuing to fly the Hawk. If you REALLY want the module.

 

I stand behind ED 100%. There is NO other sim that even comes close to what DCS is.

 

(And, no. I'm not rich. I'm retired and poor. I just know how to live within my means.)

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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