FPS limiters and Track-IR performance

[Goa]

Very well said, no argument to this as it is indeed fact.

 

I have my FPS set at 60, however; what should I be doing with my GSYNC and screen refresh rate of 144Hz? Do those even matter as long as my FPS target is set to 60?

 

 

best solution i found after intensive months of tests :

 

 

 

leave refresh rate at maximum supported by your monitor , i.e 144hz, gsync on both fullscreen and window /vsync disabled in game and ON under nvidia control panel / set maximum performance under nvcp as well.

 

 

Then limit your fps with msi rivaturner or as I am doing now I am using nvidia inspector to cap fps at 60 with V2 version all off.

 

 

Sometime ago I also found usefeull to open graphic.lua and delete the line of max_fps=180, I have completeley deleted that line and save the file.

 

 

Doing so , as other have experienced, seems to get the game a bit smoother :thumbup:

 

 

p.s. : always remember to leftalt + enter once you're in cockpit to siwtch to fullscreen.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Goa

[petsild]

exactly,

trackir operates under OPENGL , the game and gync operates in direct3d and this is the reason of stuttering when using trackir withouth fps cap.

 

The only solution which I along with other have discovered long time ago ( there are several threads in this regard from at least 3 years) is to cap fps at 60 or 120.

 

The problem is quite simple :

- stable 60 fps trackir and the game is smooth

-stable 120 fps or higher trackir and game is smooth

 

ANY VALUE OF FPS BETWEEN 60 AND 120 , meaning fluctuation of fps rtange from 60 to 120 will generate JITTERY and stuttery movement when paning around.

 

If the game runs higher than 120 fps, ie. fluctuation from 120 up to inifnity , this will not generate jittery and will be smooth anyway.

 

Trackir software its 3 years OLD, 3!!!!!

 

I can gurantee you all I run all kind of tests:

 

- change 3 cpu and 3 motherboards : z170/z270/z370 + i5 6600k/i7 7700k / i7 8700 k

- changed 4 gpu : 1060/1070/1080/1080ti

 

- changed 3 hd : normal mechanicl hd 7200 rpm / samsung evo 850 / samsung nvme 970 evo

 

- changed : 3 psu from 3 different manfactures

 

- formatted windows 10 at least 50 times in 3 years : tried all the builds of 10 starting from 1511 up to now 1807

- reinstalled dcs at least 50 times as well

 

run all kind of bios settings, usb hubs, usb pci-e cards with their own chipset etc etc etc

-tweeaked windows so many times from telemetry options to cpu afifnity to deep windows and bios settings you dont even imagine.

 

Trackir , in any game is only smooth at perfect 60 fps, 120 fps or higher.

 

This is not a theory, this is a PURE FACT.

This theory is completely wrong... why would the GUI Trackir in OpenGL should affect the output data for the DCS?

Graphical Gui does not run in overlay, to influence each other. Such a mistake was quickly revealed in the beginning of the development of the TrackIR.

You have a completely different problem, your hardware is too weak to be able to tighten the constant 144 fps/Hz gaming monitor.

If you suddenly fall images from the values 144fps on 65 so it is clear that the image can never be smooth.

Set the details so that you have at all times had the most constant framerate and trust that TrackIR will work great with G-Sync and FreeSync, anything else it is not.

[Svsmokey]

(Sigh) here we go again , arguing theoretically about something that is both known by most , and TESTABLE by all...

Edited February 6, 2019 by Svsmokey

[BitMaster]

(Sigh) here we go again , arguing theoretically about something that is both known by most , and TESTABLE by all...

 

Testable by all that can run anywhere from 60-120fps without problems at all, just DONT look left and right.

 

The issue is, your rig needs to be able to push it that far first place without ANY stuttering before you see the issue.

 

..and yes, easy reproducable with the right rigs

[jafa]

In game v-sync is the one that causes the biggest issues for stuttering "FOR ME" , my work around is to turn it off in game and use the fast version in NV control panel , Im always using track ir with clouds on , in game settings set to high and doing a lot of 100mps 4k recordings at the same time , I would say that this gives me 98% stutter free where as before the game was almost unplayable on my mid range pc.

 

Cheers

Jafa

[Goa]

If I disable trackir and use a hat switch on my joystick or any other device such as a normal keyboard for moving around in the cockpit, everything will be abosolutely smooth from 60 up to 100000 fps.

 

 

If instead I use trackir it will result in jittery effect when moving around unless the output is a stable locked 60fps, or 120 or higher.

 

 

60 ~ 120 = jittery

[Goa]

(Sigh) here we go again , arguing theoretically about something that is both known by most , and TESTABLE by all...

 

 

so what do you mean by this uh?

:music_whistling:

[Svsmokey]

It means I think I'll submit to cultural realities , and join the Flat Earth Society :(

[Goa]

ok so this is only our immagination.

[BitMaster]

LoL, you both actually agree but are a victim of misunderstanding...all good

[Svsmokey]

I certainly do agree with Goa , and yourself . My post was expressing frustration at all the arguing over how many angels can fit on the head of a pin , when the means to actually solve the problem were developed at the turn of the 15th-16th century .

[Damcopter]

I completely agree with GOA on all points.

Don't loose your time GOA with people like that.

All my friends with différents rigs have the same jittery experience between 60 a'd 120fps, we are all obliged to cap DCS at 60 or 120 for those who are able to sustain 120fps.

 

We all have exactly the same problem in Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2 (both caped at 120 fps). And yes the jittery problem is only visible when panning. If you look in the same direction and fps are changing, there is no problem.

 

Hope Natural Point will find a solution....

[bandit648]

I completely agree with GOA on all points.

Don't loose your time GOA with people like that.

All my friends with différents rigs have the same jittery experience between 60 a'd 120fps, we are all obliged to cap DCS at 60 or 120 for those who are able to sustain 120fps.

 

We all have exactly the same problem in Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2 (both caped at 120 fps). And yes the jittery problem is only visible when panning. If you look in the same direction and fps are changing, there is no problem.

 

Hope Natural Point will find a solution....

 

I opened a support ticket with Natural Point several weeks ago detailing the issue. They responded right away and said they were eager to help and find a solution.... and that was last I heard from them.

[YoYo]

Sometime ago I also found usefeull to open graphic.lua and delete the line of max_fps=180, I have completeley deleted that line and save the file.

 

Strange, because I havent DCS World OpenBeta\Config\graphics.lua this entry max_fps=180. As I remember I added manually for some tests, but looks like default settings of DCS hasnt this entry so You dont need to delete this line?

[petsild]

I can't measure the difference of stability of the fps when I remove the line max_fps=180 or max_fps=0.

[YoYo]

About this issue (with Track IR) and high level of FPS (more than 60 to near 110-120) - I noticed this too. Example:

 

4RK65QGCxoE

 

Im not sure its a only problem of software of Naturalpoint (and not DCS). In Prepar3D or IL-2 Battle of... I didnt notice the issue like this - micro stutters when You use Track IR to pan a cockpit.

What is strange I didnt notice this on DCS few patches ago (like half year ago for example). I think the Team of ED must look for this also. Perhaps the issue is in the middle.

 

----------------------------------------------

About Goa test. Here are my opionions:

 

1/ blocked fps to 60v2.

 

 

yes, its a quite nice. The picture is smooth but not like 100 fps or more (not fast like this level). This micro stutter gone but 60 fps isnt good level for me and I see difference between 60 and 120. The bigger ghosting and picture delay (https://www.testufo.com/ghosting) is present here. What is nice here You can use antialiasing MSAA x2, x4 and SSAA x1,5 without differences and influence on FPS (stable 60 like a charm). Its a nice found.

 

 

 

2/ unlimited fps and not more MSAA than x2

 

what I noticed the biggest influence on this stutter and Track IR has antialiasing (without FPS limiter). So if I take MSAA x4 or SSAA x1,5 its present BUT when I take MSAA x2 only (plus FXAA with my ReShade profile) the picture is nice again too (max 144 fps like my monitor's refresh rate). Small stutter when You pan is present still but looks like 50% of this before. Just idea to try it too.

Edited February 10, 2019 by YoYo

[petsild]

Let me ask are you using MSFFB2 joystick?

[BitMaster]

Goa and I flew a few nights ago and both we agreed that with the newest Nvidia driver and/or DCS ( maybe both, maybe 1 alone, who knows ) the stutter with unlimited fps above 60fps was not as bad as it used to be...but we both flew MSAA4x, me with Full Shadows everywhere and Goa with middle or low at first.

 

Tbh, nobody knows with certainty what the root problem is, we all just try to circle it in with trial & error and the outcome thereof.

 

Indeed, I also see, ( or think I see, whatever ) a difference between 60, 90 and 120. The faster you go, the lower you fly the more present "it" is in my personal perception. But I have to admit, a steady 60fps is far far from unplayable, it is real nice tbh. Just sometimes, I wish I could go balls to the wall with fps and let it FLY ;) So, yeah, we still look out for going past 60fps again. It's not that we love it, we accept it. Heck, we can't change it anyways.

 

I do also see that with Vulkan being worked on heavily, I see no point in fixing this NOW if it's a thing ED knows they could fix. If they can do it and fix it with Vulkan, I am ok with that, 60fps aren't a game breaker. Rather push Vulkan !

[bandit648]

Goa and I flew a few nights ago and both we agreed that with the newest Nvidia driver and/or DCS ( maybe both, maybe 1 alone, who knows ) the stutter with unlimited fps above 60fps was not as bad as it used to be...but we both flew MSAA4x, me with Full Shadows everywhere and Goa with middle or low at first.

 

Are you guys running driver 418.81? I'm installing that tonight to give it a try. The last couple drivers were reported to be worse for Pascal cards and better for Turing. This latest one is supposed to be better for Pascal so I'm going to try it.

[BitMaster]

Yes, the newest one

 

 

Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[Goa]

Let me ask are you using MSFFB2 joystick?

 

 

nope, normal jostick no force feedback.

 

 

The issue with ffb and trackir was very well known many years ago with dcs 1.2...but that's been 6 years ago when gsync did not eve exist.

 

 

 

 

Imho it is trackir hadrware related issue in conjuction with high refresh rate of modern monitors that did not exist when trackir was created.

 

 

Therefore there is no solution rather than caping dcs at 60 fps or having the game capable to run always equal or above 120 fps.

 

 

With dcs 1.5 I did not have this problem as the I could always run in every situation at costant 140-165 fps.

 

 

:thumbup:

[Hammer1-1]

I just want to jump in here for a sec and ask an obvious question: did you test this while limiting your fps to 59?

[petsild]

nope, normal jostick no force feedback.

 

 

The issue with ffb and trackir was very well known many years ago with dcs 1.2...but that's been 6 years ago when gsync did not eve exist.

 

 

 

 

Imho it is trackir hadrware related issue in conjuction with high refresh rate of modern monitors that did not exist when trackir was created.

 

 

Therefore there is no solution rather than caping dcs at 60 fps or having the game capable to run always equal or above 120 fps.

 

 

With dcs 1.5 I did not have this problem as the I could always run in every situation at costant 140-165 fps.

 

 

:thumbup:

I asked YoYo in the signature has a completed title BOX so that's why.

[River]

I testet a cap with 59 frames this afternoon, it was a hefty MP session and I was busy not getting shot but I could not detect any frame drops like I used to get with the 60 frame cap. With a cap at 60 fps I always get those weird drops to 59 frames.

 

I used Riva to cap the frames and currently I use a Full HD TV at 60hz. Will test again the next days ...

 

One more thing, if I raise my TrackIR speed from lets say 1.4 up to 2, it seems to give me less stutter. It seems smoother to me. Has anybody checked different / higher TrackIR speed settings ?

[River]

Edit: seems 59 frames is also not as good as I thought (((